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The Shokk Attack Gun (SAG) used to be feared!

it could kill a land raider in a single turn, with no need to roll for armour penetration it would simply roll on a death table (multiple times a turn) and was DEADLY against things like dreddnaughts, terminators, wraithknights and riptides.

Walkers and Terminators: 2=weapon destroyed, 3-6 instant death (no saves)
Vehicles: 1 immobilized, 2 weapon destroyed, 3-4 all crew members takes a wound, 5-6 destroyed.

The gun had as many shots as you had ammo, so you would shoot 2 or three times a turn with the gun!

point cost
25p + 18p for Mek (with BS4) + 25p (5 grots as ammo) = 68p (this was when a space marine cost 30 points)

In 7th edition costs the Ork+Shokk gun would cost 35p, and would be basically a D weapon
But that is perhaps OP (now is carried by a big mek who costs 35 not a mek), so my proposal for what is fair is as below.


65p (25+35+15)
S-2D6, AP1, Large blast, ordinance, ignores cover
auto penetrate vehicles
If a double or 11 is rolled for strength consult the SAG missfire table in the ork codex.

or

85p (current 7th edition costs)
S-D, large blast, gets hot
If the gun gets hot, roll 2D6 on the SAG missfire table in the ork codex

Remember the weapon might be deadly, but has a chance to self destruct.. and even if not is being carried by a S4 BS2 squishy ork

It was far more entertaining in 2nd than later editions. Then again the entire Ork army in 2nd was hilariously fun.

Yeah I find the current rules for the gun a bit weird. I mean I'm paying 50pts for a weapons that is kinda iffy. However if I want my big mek to survive with your proposal, to be able to use it I would just stick him in a mek gun crew to gain T7 or throw him in a stompa, I feel that would be a bit too cheesy (mainly that S one) because now the enemy will probably have to gun for that mek (or meks if you take two).

Also I'm assuming the SAG table would need some tweaks because double 6 on the table would be redundant if the gun didn't fire due to gets hot.

I picked up a Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun just because I really like the model. I don' think the weapon is all that great.

Once I pick up a bunch of buggies I've got a goofy "buggy beta strike" list I'm going to put him in. It's a Big Mek w/ SAG, 2x grots, and 15 buggies in a 750 point list (maybe ADL + comms relay as well). The idea is to start off with very little on the board and then all of the sudden buggies start coming out of the woodwork. I imagine I'd get tabled early on a lot, but the list is supposed to be funny and adding a gun that might actually kill my Warlord seems extra hilarious.

I actually figure I could go triple CAD and get 3x Big Meks (one w/ SAG), 6x Grots and 45 buggies into 1500 points. I just like to think about the look of WTF on my opponents face or as he looks at my list or sees me pulling buggy after buggy out of the case. I also get a kick out of the idea of nothing and then buggiesbuggiesbuggiesbuggiesbuggies. That would be a lot of money to spend on an army that I'd be primarily doing for the lulz, so I'm just going to stick to the 750 point 15 buggy idea.

I feel like regular mekboys should be able to take SAGs or some mini-version, that the weapon itself should get a price drop, and that rolling 11-12 for strength on the attack should buff it to D in addition to its other effects (all applied to the normal SAG). That would be fun to take 4 SAGs per CAD.

I dunno, getting an AP 2 Pieplate with rerollable scatter for under 100 points does have its appeal, even if you add another 35 points or so for a Gretchen meatshield.

Mogrok's Bossboyz is probably a better way to run such a list though.

I like to run it because its one of the few long range guns the orks have, and hey, ap 2 pie plates are always great.

But so many times I've taken it and it literally does nothing. The big issue is that not only are you dealing with the doubles results, you are also dealing with blasts and how they are gak for orks. Even with ammo runts and a gitfinda the damn thing sucks to hit with.

I don't think anything has pissed me off in 40k more than when I rolled the result that just removed my mek off the table. I think space marines should get a rule like that.

Still aint nothing compared to what happened to the poor old Ork Psykers! Used to be pretty good back in second and before and now they are never seen on the table.

Current chart has 1 result thats extra good, IE has a bigger benefit then simply rolling high and thats Double 6s. Turns the weapon into a Vortex.

To even out 1 good result it has, Double 1s (instant death), Double 2s your opponent gets to place the marker on your guys
Double 3s place it on the nearest unit to the target, friend or foe....
Double 4s it becomes small blast and S6 AP6....
Double 5s: You don't shoot, instead your Big Mek gets placed into Base to Base with your target and is assumes to be locked in combat, unless you wasted points on a PK and some Eavy Armor hes dead in the assault phase
5 and a 6: Instead of Large blast its a Single shot on the target directly under the dot of the Large blast marker. S10 though so thats nice...damn shame it still scatters and your Big Mek is BS2

So you get 1 good result and 6 Bad results, furthermore your going to get the occasional S3, S4, S5 rolls which don't benefit you that much because your really hoping for a high roll.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Still aint nothing compared to what happened to the poor old Ork Psykers! Used to be pretty good back in second and before and now they are never seen on the table.

The worst part is that they aren't actually that terrible in a vacuum in 7e ( easy ML3 psykers for not too many points), it's just that psyking in 7e is based around getting as many charges as possible per turn and orks can't spam their psykers, plus our psychic discipline isn't very good.

Oh man I remember hating them so much in 2nd edition, they were horrible! I lost so many Wolf Guard terminators to that thing.

These days the real Shokk Attack is when it does something useful.

Last two games I used mine in, rolled doubles in the first turn of both.

1. Blasted the unit of grotz the mek was attached to; everyone ran away.

2. Teleported himself into combat with a Space Marine Captain, who promptly thunderhammered his head off.

Still love it.

 Nazrak wrote:
Last two games I used mine in, rolled doubles in the first turn of both.

1. Blasted the unit of grotz the mek was attached to; everyone ran away.

2. Teleported himself into combat with a Space Marine Captain, who promptly thunderhammered his head off.

Still love it.

So you lost 200+ points because the rules for SAG suck. Nice.

I wouldn't spend 200pts on a potentially backfiring weapon if I wasn't happy to take that trade off.....

Well, 125 and 90, if we're counting. But y'know, both I and the guys I was playing with were entertained by it, and ended up having an enjoyable game, so whatever.

 Nazrak wrote:

Well, 125 and 90, if we're counting. But y'know, both I and the guys I was playing with were entertained by it, and ended up having an enjoyable game, so whatever.

I remember my little brother using Orks against my marines and one shotting my dreadnought, I was stunned, and it didn't matter how hard I looked in the rulebook he definitely wasn't cheating lol
These days walkers and vehicles getting one shot is far too common but I'd still like to see the shokk attack gun do it more often, the orks need some love

I dunno about the bad results outweighing the good – running the numbers, you've a 0.58 chance of a S6+ hit, a 0.22 chance of a S3-5 AP2 hit (which still has the potential to dish out some damage to a lot of things), a 0.08 chance of one of the slightly disappointing results (only the hole, small blast) and a 0.11 chance of one of the outcomes that's going to cause you grief. That's just slightly more than one in ten times you fire it. Sure, it's unpredictable, but personally I'm ok with that.

....

Sorry, but the Shock attack gun got a buff with the last update. double 6 used to be removed from play to now str D ap 2 Vortex large blast! Hello Vortex is like the biggest middle finger to your opponent. You put multiple of those into your opponent's line and you can watch their army disappear.

I used 3 in a recent apoc game and fought Tau. Rolled double 6s on turn 1 and watch 3 vortex eat his army every turn. I could pretty much just ignore him at that point.

The only thing I wish is the old Big mek SAQ battery formation was legal for normal games,

http://archive.4plebs.org/dl/tg/image/1392/90/1392909576739.pdf

 Nazrak wrote:
I dunno about the bad results outweighing the good – running the numbers, you've a 0.58 chance of a S6+ hit, a 0.22 chance of a S3-5 AP2 hit (which still has the potential to dish out some damage to a lot of things), a 0.08 chance of one of the slightly disappointing results (only the hole, small blast) and a 0.11 chance of one of the outcomes that's going to cause you grief. That's just slightly more than one in ten times you fire it. Sure, it's unpredictable, but personally I'm ok with that.

Bad results are double 1s, 2s, 3s, 5s AND 6 and 5 (11) because that creates a single shot, and since this is a Large blast and since the big mek is BS2 this is bad as well. chances are you aren't hitting anything with this.

So that chances the equation a bit, Now you have 6 out of 36 results that are BAD. so 1/6th of them are BAD.

S3 is 1/18 S4 (without doubles) is 1/18, Double 4s will also result in a small blast which again with BS2 means a probable miss. Those three are bad results as well, but not as bad. Their probability is 5/36th. so now your at 11/36th for results you don't want.

Now normal results (S5-S8) S5 is 1/9th, S6 (without doubles) is 1/9th, S7 is 1/6th and S8 is also 1/9th so a grand total of 1/2.

Finally, Good results (S9-10 and Krakoom) S9 = 1/9th S10 = 1/18th and Krakoom is 1/36 so a total of 7/36th chance

So not really that bad, Ohh but wait, we have to also factor in the fact that since this weapon is either godlike or utter trash you are probably either shooting it at elite infantry or your shooting it at Vehicles. Add to that the fact that the bad results remove your own models fairly regularly and the good results only hurt the enemy if they hit.

Finally BS2. Average 2D6 roll is 7, BS 2 means 5in scatter.....Good luck.

If this weapon had its cost cut in half it still wouldn't be worth fielding. And that my friend is the kicker. Hell if it was a 10pt upgrade you still would NOT see them fielded often because nobody wants to hand over 1st blood or a HQ kill to your opponent. Nor do they want their own models dying almost as often as the enemies.

Mine is still feared. So maybe you need to roll better Try taking 3 with the Bossboyz. Not joking, 2+ of them is really scary to face.

First game I used mine in 4th after waiting forever to bust mine out I removed 5 Wraithguard and a Farseer in one shot. "those models are removed from play"

Even the last game I used mine it dropped a Vortex which kept chasing Maugan Ra and some Dark Reapers.

Mine has never failed to make me laugh and cause lots of mayhem.

I don't know about it in the 2nd edition, but it's honestly not bad. Before riptides, it was one of the only long range, AP2, large blasts in the game.

Even now, it's the only long range, large blast AP2 orks have.

Overall, it's a great elite infantry killer. 2D6 strength is more than enough to easily put wounds on most infantry, and AP2 will cut through all armor. Invluns/cover still apply, but it's still a solid way to put wounds on stuff.

And it's fun, too. My opponents always seem pleasantly surprised when I roll double 2s and give them the template.