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Hi all,
It's been a good 10 years since I have played 40k, and I'm thinking about getting back on the horse (table?), and would like some advice. I haven't played 40k since 3rd edition, in the heady and wonderful days of the 3.5ed CSM codex, championing Khorne, while flirting with Nurgle. I gave up once the 4th ed codex came out, stripping all character from my beloved forces of Chaos. I've been checking in from time to time, seeing that Chaos has not only lacked character since, but has been relegated to stink-tier codices. I've been getting my 40k fix with the 40k Conquest, which is the BEST card game ever invented, but now that has come to an end with the GW/FFG shenanigans. Thankfully, with KDK and Traitor Legions I have finally seen something that might make me return to tabletop.

So the situation is this: I probably want to grab two armies, one assault focused, the other tanks mid-range, and so I was thinking either Khorne Daemonkin or World Eaters for the first, and Death Guard for the second. But as I've been out of the game (literally) for so long, I fear list building in this new post-standard formation era is a bit beyond me, and I wanted to ask you guys some advice on a few lists I've thrown together, asking, first, if the lists even make sense, or fit at all into the current meta, and second, which of the lists I give you think are best. I'm not a big power-gamer, but I don't like playing weak lists. But I do want to have fun, and I like lists that allow for a lot of different unit types.

Assault Lists - 5 choices
So I start with the Assault Lists. I'd love some thoughts concerning which you think are better or worse, and which just plain stupid/illegal:

CC Army Choice 1: Khorne Daemonkin 1850 #1
Slaughtercult
1x Chaos Lord: Juggernaut, Goredrinker, Sigil of Corruption, Blood-Forged Armour
5x Possessed
8x Bloodletters
8x Bloodletters
1x Chaos Spawn
1x Chaos Spawn

Gorepack
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
10x Flesh Hounds (Lord goes here)
5x Flesh Hounds
5x Flesh Hounds

Lord of Slaughter
1x Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

War Engine(s)
1x Maulerfiend: Lasher Tendrils
1x Maulerfiend: Lasher Tendrils
1x Soul Grinder: Phlegm Bombardment

CC Army Choice 2: Khorne Daemonkin #2 1850 #2
Combined Arms Detachment
1x Chaos Lord: Juggernaut, Goredrinker, Sigil of Corruption, Blood-Forged Armour
8x Cultists
8x Cultists
8x Cultists
8x Cultists
1x Helldrake: Baleflamer
1x Helldrake: Baleflamer

Gorepack
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
10x Flesh Hounds (Lord goes here)
5x Flesh Hounds
5x Flesh Hounds

Lord of Slaughter
1x Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

War Engine(s)
1x Maulerfiend: Lasher Tendrils
1x Maulerfiend: Lasher Tendrils

CC Army Choice 3: World Eaters 1850 #1 (all MoK)
Chaos Warband
1x Chaos Lord: Juggernaut, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil of Corruption
3x Chaos Terminators: 3x Combi-Meltas
5x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
5x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
8x Chaos Bikers: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs (Lord here)

Lord(s) of the World Eaters
1x Daemon Prince: The Berzerker Glaive, Power Armour, Daemonic Flight
1x Daemon Prince: Gorefather, Power Armour, Daemonic Flight

Hellforged Warpack
1x Warpsmith
1x Maulerfiend
1x Maulerfiend
1x Maulerfiend

CC Army Choice 4: World Eaters #2 (all MoK)
Chaos Warband
1x Chaos Lord: Juggernaut, 1x Powerfist, 1x Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption, Talisman of the Burning Blood
3x Chaos Terminators: 3x Combi-Meltas
15x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs
15x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs
5x Havocs: 4x Autocannons

Lord of the World Eaters
1x Daemon Prince: The Berzerker Glaive, Power Armour, Daemonic Flight

Hellforged Warpack
1x Warpsmith
1x Maulerfiend
1x Maulerfiend
1x Hellbrute: 2x Powerfists

CC Army Choice 5: World Eaters 1850 #3 (all MoK)
Chaos Warband
1x Chaos Lord: Juggernaut, 1x Powerfist, 1x Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption, Talisman of the Burning Blood
3x Chaos Terminators: 3x Combi-Meltas
15x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs
15x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs
5x Raptors: 2x Lightning Claws, 2x Meltaguns
5x Raptors: 2x Lightning Claws, 2x Meltaguns
5x Havocs: 4x Autocannons

Gorepack
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltagun, Melta Bombs
10x Flesh Hounds (Lord goes here)
5x Flesh Hounds
5x Flesh Hounds

So these are the five possible lists I've come up with. What do you think of their relative strengths and weaknesses? I'm worried options 2 and 5 are not legal lists. I'd love to hear what you'd think here.


And while I have you, there is also the matter of a potential second army as well, which does a little bit more than just run towards the enemy (although I'll always want at least one army that does this, hence my Khorne fetish). So Papa Nurgle has always been a favourite of mine too, and I was thinking of the following Death Guard lists, Nurgle daemons (except the fast attack) not holding huge interest for me.

Tanky Mid-Range Lists - 2 Choices

Tanky Mid-Range Choice 1: Death Guard 1850 #1
Chaos Warband
1x Chaos Lord: Chaos Bike, 1x Powerfist, 1x Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption
5x Chosen: 2x Meltguns w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Meltagun w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Meltagun w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Bikers: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs (Lord here)
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltaguns
5x Havocs: 4x Autocannons w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster

Cult of Destruction
1x Warpsmith
1x Obliterator
1x Obliterator
1x Obliterator
1x Obliterator

Helldrake Terror Pack
1x Helldrake: Baleflamer
1x Helldrake: Baleflamer

Tanky Mid-Range Choice 2: Death Guard 1850 #2
Chaos Warband
1x Chaos Lord: Chaos Bike, 1x Powerfist, 1x Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption
5x Chosen: 2x Meltguns w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Meltagun w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Space Marines: 1x Meltagun w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Bikers: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs (Lord here)
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltaguns
5x Havocs: 4x Autocannons w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster

Cult of Destruction
1x Warpsmith
1x Obliterator
1x Obliterator
1x Obliterator

The Lost and the Damned
1x Dark Apostle
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
10x Cultists

I am split between flyers and cultists. Neither of these were even in the game back in 3.5ed. I do love the idea of Plague Zombies, but I can see 40 of them getting a bit in the way. On the other hand I'd love to try out fliers. But then I have based these lists on what I have read up on with 7th edition, and to be frank I am a little confused as to where the killing is done. As such, do tell me if these lists just aren't what Death Guard should be up to. I'll also mention that, given I can NEVER get enough Chaos, another Chaos army over Khorne may do little to further satiate me. As such, I am open to the idea of playing Necrons (the only other 40k army that interests me), if you think that DG is just not going to work (or if the only Death Guard lists that work aren't to my taste), then I'll entertain the old Cheesycrons.


So I know that I've really given you a wall of text. And I apologise if this should rather be in the Army List forum. (I just thought that, as it's broadly advice on what armies to play, and how the game works, not just about lists, I thought here would be most appropriate. But I look forward to any advice you may have!

Thanks in advance!
Tony

Just so it's not a wall of text, maybe I'll just summarise the choices:

1) I'm after a CC army, which I would like either to be KDK or WE. Which do you think does a better job as an assault army? I'm ok with it being not entirely assault if some tactical flexibility (like Helldrakes) would make it much better overall.
1.1) Within KDK would you prefer: a) A Slaughter Cult (for maximum Blood Tithe slaughter) or a CAD (for ObSec cultists + Helldrakes); b) War Engines + Bloodthirster or Khorne's Bloodstorm
1.2) Within WE would you prefer: a) MSU CSM or Deathstar CSM (with Talisman); b) Hellforged Warpack or Raptor Talon
And in general are the options I have good ways of building an assault army, or am I just completely off? What is it like playing assault armies? Do they even work anymore?


2) I'm also interested in making a second army, which I hope to be a tanky mid-range army. I was thinking Death Guard for this
2.1) Within DG would you prefer: a Helldrake Terror Pack or Lost and the Damned + Poxwalker Hive
2.2) In general, I'm not sure how to build a DG army. Does the MSU Chaos Warband + Cult of Destruction look like a good core?
Also what do people think of the play style of DG vs Necrons, the other army that seems to fit into this theme, and the only other 40k army I'm interested in playing outside of Chaos.

Thanks!
Tony

New to DG myself, but I'd suggest dropping the rhino from the havocs, as only two can shoot out the top hatch. You're more likely to stick them on a backfield objective in cover and snipe upfield.

I am working on a similar vectorium list, and am in a quandary on what to spend the last ~350 points on. I'm running terminators over chosen (combi-melta and PF; T5 2+/5++/5+++ re-roll 1's fearless, deep strike seems a bit good...) and I'm running heldrake pack, but after that...

Cult of destruction is tempting but you don't have the points to really make it good at 1850 (need a big unit of oblits to get the value from the warpsmith, otherwise he is an expensive tax).

The other options I can see are a) spawn blob b) bulk up the warband c) daemon prince w/wings (probably what I am going to do) and finally d) renegade knight (but you need to shave off the warband, which I think is suboptimal).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously bikes are insane in that list... so you might just want to overload on those.

Thanks for the reply! So you think that something along the following lines may be better:

Death Guard 1850 (all with MoN)
Chaos Warband
Chaos Lord: Chaos Bike, 1x Powerfist, 1x Lightning Claw
5x Chosen: 2x Meltaguns w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x CSM: 2x Meltaguns w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x CSM: 2x Meltaguns w/ Rhino: Dirge Caster
5x Chaos Bikers: 1x Powerfist, 2x Meltaguns, Melta Bombs
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Meltaguns, Meltabomb
3x Chaos Bikers: 2x Flamers, Meltabombs
5x Havocs: 4x Autocannons
5x Havocs: 4x Autocannons

Helldrake Terror Pack
1x Helldrake: Baleflamer
1x Helldrake: Baleflamer

Lord of the Death Guard
1x Daemon Prince: w/ something like ML 2, Chaos Armour, and Wings


I haven't any interest in getting a renegade knight, so I want to do without. But overall is this a better shape for a tanky mid-range army like Death Guard to take?


As this is getting a bit list-focused I've reposted this there. Please feel free to close the thread.