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Still trying to settle on a legion and I'm throwing together some lists to get an idea of what I'd be looking at getting. One of the top legions in terms of what I want to start is Night Lords, mainly due to Night Raptors, Fear, and of course Curze (Who I will probably want to bring in as many lists as possible). How does this look for a starting 2k army? Obviously the most important thing is fluff, but I would like to not loose every single game as well.
Horror Cult is considered awful and for good reason. It is by far the worst RoW for that Legion and kinda one of the worst overall. Terror Assault is much better.
For advice on some choices present:
You never really need two Venators. Laser Vindicators, Sicaran Battle Tanks, Leviathans, etc. Lots of other Heavy slot options that will do a bit more for your lists (depending on build). One Venator should do fine to help kill (or stall) super-heavies.
Take Artificer armor on your Chappy always. That is a must. Boarding Shield wouldn't hurt either.
TL Las on the Javs I wouldn't think ideal. CML/MM tends to be the "optimal" set-up.
Night Raptors are overpriced. You are much better served with Assault Squads. For the same investment in 10 Raptors, you get 15 Assault dudes and up to three Power Axes, too. Bodies count a lot in 30k.
You have zero anti-air, so keep that in mind. Scrap some stuff for maybe an Aiolos/AC Deredeo to swat down troublesome flyers.
Also, Trophies are for ICs only.
I would recommend taking at most one unit of Raptors for Curze if you really want them, but otherwise I wouldn't bother with them (though I know you said you wanted them).
Not in a Raptor Cult, any squad (for a significant cost) can take Trophies of Judgment in a Raptor Cult. So a Raptor Cult with it's squads upgrade to have ToJ and Curze means he's forcing his opponent to take Fear tests at a -1 across the board.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/21 17:47:57
Not in a Raptor Cult, any squad (for a significant cost) can take Trophies of Judgment in a Raptor Cult. So a Raptor Cult with it's squads upgrade to have ToJ and Curze means he's forcing his opponent to take Fear tests at a -1 across the board.
It is such a terrible RoW, I honestly forgot about that. Still not worth it. I mean... Jeez, that is an expensive upgrade just for the Fear thing, which is nice... but do we really need it? Night Lords aren't struggling in combat and what we might struggle against (looking at you, Custodes) aren't bothered by Fear.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/21 18:35:56
Well this one also doenst have a Consul or HS slot limitation like Terror Assault, so people that want a NL themed RoW, but also tanks wont have to suffer.
I could see this RoW working well (as well as it could anyway) if someone wanted to run Breacher Squads, the Fear Bonus could help them out. Plus if you want treads, you put them in the LR Proteus, then fill up the HS with what ever.
Boom, SPOOOKY!!! Siege Force. Is it gonna be a super strong list, no. Could someone have fun with it, sure. Could you build a theme for the 282nd Siege Assault Company of the VIIIth Legion and Captain Therion the Prince of Ruin?(names pulled out of my ass). Absolutely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/21 18:45:15
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Well this one also doenst have a Consul or HS slot limitation like Terror Assault, so people that want a NL themed RoW, but also tanks wont have to suffer.
I could see this RoW working well (as well as it could anyway) if someone wanted to run Breacher Squads, the Fear Bonus could help them out. Plus if you want treads, you put them in the LR Proteus, then fill up the HS with what ever.
Boom, SPOOOKY!!! Siege Force. Is it gonna be a super strong list, no. Could someone have fun with it, sure. Could you build a theme for the 282nd Siege Assault Company of the VIIIth Legion and Captain Therion the Prince of Ruin?(names pulled out of my ass). Absolutely.
Night Lords are known for having among the least amount of Breachers, if I am recalling my fluff right.
If he the OP wants fluff, Terror Assault is probably his best bet. It does all the Night Lord schtick without being kinda terrible like Horror Cult. And while somewhat restrictive, it rarely factors that much. One heavy slot is plenty for that Pod Leviathan or Fire Raptor. And one Consul is just right, since Curze is often a feature anyhow.
I will say though, Night Lords are getting more love in Angelus, which means likely Atramentar and maybe another RoW. So that is exciting! Snykyninja, you may want to consider that.
Night Lords are known for having among the least amount of Breachers, if I am recalling my fluff right.
I don't recall seeing the mentioned anywhere.
If he the OP wants fluff, Terror Assault is probably his best bet. It does all the Night Lord schtick without being kinda terrible like Horror Cult. And while somewhat restrictive, it rarely factors that much. One heavy slot is plenty for that Pod Leviathan or Fire Raptor. And one Consul is just right, since Curze is often a feature anyhow.
Its the most fluffy for that one particular aspect of the Night Lords, however Terror Assaults weren't the only thing they ever did. A force built for a theme around a Horror Cult, with 3 Terror Squads side lined, could easily become a Terror Assault force. There's no reason to pigeon hole yourself into one way of making war. This said I do prefer the Terror Assault, I like the Terror Squads (and their Volkite) over the Raptors.
I will say though, Night Lords are getting more love in Angelus, which means likely Atramentar and maybe another RoW. So that is exciting! Snykyninja, you may want to consider that.
Angelus is still a year or more out. So there's no reason to plan around the unknown that the VIIIth may be receiving. He can build what he wants now and further expand. Planning around having some Terminators in the Night Lords would be good anyway, since they are one of two Legions able to DS their Terminators outside of the Orbital Assault RoW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/21 19:05:29
Night Lords are known for having among the least amount of Breachers, if I am recalling my fluff right.
I don't recall seeing the mentioned anywhere.
If he the OP wants fluff, Terror Assault is probably his best bet. It does all the Night Lord schtick without being kinda terrible like Horror Cult. And while somewhat restrictive, it rarely factors that much. One heavy slot is plenty for that Pod Leviathan or Fire Raptor. And one Consul is just right, since Curze is often a feature anyhow.
Its the most fluffy for that one particular aspect of the Night Lords, however Terror Assaults weren't the only thing they ever did. A force built for a theme around a Horror Cult, with 3 Terror Squads side lined, could easily become a Terror Assault force. There's no reason to pigeon hole yourself into one way of making war. This said I do prefer the Terror Assault, I like the Terror Squads (and their Volkite) over the Raptors.
I will say though, Night Lords are getting more love in Angelus, which means likely Atramentar and maybe another RoW. So that is exciting! Snykyninja, you may want to consider that.
Angelus is still a year or more out. So there's no reason to plan around the unknown that the VIIIth may be receiving. He can build what he wants now and further expand. Planning around having some Terminators in the Night Lords would be good anyway, since they are one of two Legions able to DS their Terminators outside of the Orbital Assault RoW.
Yea, I don't have the HH books in front of me (at work), but I know it mentions in their first installment that they have the least amount of Breachers of the Legions. I will double check when I get home!
And Angelus is only a year out or so. That is a lot of time to build a list with the knowledge that options will open up later. It isn't a Legion set in stone, was my point. Obviously he can build what he wants! It is just exciting.
Yea, I don't have the HH books in front of me (at work), but I know it mentions in their first installment that they have the least amount of Breachers of the Legions. I will double check when I get home!
And Angelus is only a year out or so. That is a lot of time to build a list with the knowledge that options will open up later. It isn't a Legion set in stone, was my point. Obviously he can build what he wants! It is just exciting.
Yeah I dont have the book infront of me either (also at work). Even if they have the least amount of Dedicated Breachers, they likely still have the kit laying about.
Yea, I don't have the HH books in front of me (at work), but I know it mentions in their first installment that they have the least amount of Breachers of the Legions. I will double check when I get home!
And Angelus is only a year out or so. That is a lot of time to build a list with the knowledge that options will open up later. It isn't a Legion set in stone, was my point. Obviously he can build what he wants! It is just exciting.
Yeah I dont have the book infront of me either (also at work). Even if they have the least amount of Dedicated Breachers, they likely still have the kit laying about.
Only a year out, pending FW delays!
Don't do that! Don't even joke! Inferno took a billion years and I am still waiting on FW to crank out stuff from BOOK FOUR!
If they delay Angelus, I will lose my mind.
And yea, they probably have some Breachers somewhere. Nothing is forbidden, but it was something I remembered reading about them.
Yea, I don't have the HH books in front of me (at work), but I know it mentions in their first installment that they have the least amount of Breachers of the Legions. I will double check when I get home!
And Angelus is only a year out or so. That is a lot of time to build a list with the knowledge that options will open up later. It isn't a Legion set in stone, was my point. Obviously he can build what he wants! It is just exciting.
Yeah I dont have the book infront of me either (also at work). Even if they have the least amount of Dedicated Breachers, they likely still have the kit laying about.
Only a year out, pending FW delays!
Don't do that! Don't even joke! Inferno took a billion years and I am still waiting on FW to crank out stuff from BOOK FOUR!
If they delay Angelus, I will lose my mind.
And yea, they probably have some Breachers somewhere. Nothing is forbidden, but it was something I remembered reading about them.
Book 3 yet has all of its models. So I know your pain.
The problem with terror assault is that I don't really like terror squads that much. I may eventually put in a squad or two, but no more than that. I'm not quite sure what it is about them that I don't like, they just don't really appeal to me.
For Khaela Mensha Khaine
For the Emperor and Sanguinius!
DS:90+S++G+++MB--IPw40k15#+D+A+/mWD-R+T(T)DM+
snykyninja wrote: The problem with terror assault is that I don't really like terror squads that much. I may eventually put in a squad or two, but no more than that. I'm not quite sure what it is about them that I don't like, they just don't really appeal to me.
So strange! That is your bread and butter of the Legion. Volkite toting wing-helmeted Heavy Metal magazine badasses.
snykyninja wrote: The problem with terror assault is that I don't really like terror squads that much. I may eventually put in a squad or two, but no more than that. I'm not quite sure what it is about them that I don't like, they just don't really appeal to me.
So strange! That is your bread and butter of the Legion. Volkite toting wing-helmeted Heavy Metal magazine badasses.
Like I said, I'm not sure why I don't like them exactly, I just don't. I can understand why most people like them, they just don't appeal to me. Also, I've tried writing terror assault lists, and I always struggle to fit in everything I want to, mainly due to the restrictions on it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/22 06:59:43
For Khaela Mensha Khaine
For the Emperor and Sanguinius!
DS:90+S++G+++MB--IPw40k15#+D+A+/mWD-R+T(T)DM+
snykyninja wrote: The problem with terror assault is that I don't really like terror squads that much. I may eventually put in a squad or two, but no more than that. I'm not quite sure what it is about them that I don't like, they just don't really appeal to me.
So strange! That is your bread and butter of the Legion. Volkite toting wing-helmeted Heavy Metal magazine badasses.
Like I said, I'm not sure why I don't like them exactly, I just don't. I can understand why most people like them, they just don't appeal to me. Also, I've tried writing terror assault lists, and I always struggle to fit in everything I want to, mainly due to the restrictions on it.
It took me a long time and a load of tinkering and posting to get a pair of Terror Assault lists I liked. The restrictions are very hard to work around, but once you do, it is a strong approach for the Legion.
Here is my 3k list I am working towards building right now:
Two issues with that. No Reserve manipulation, so reliant heavily on getting your stuff in and not piecemeal.
Second is group dependent, but if you don't have anything on the table, you automatically lose. So you may want an anchor unit.
Also, two Fire Raptros is a bit bland. Why not take a Primaris-Lightning w/ Kraken? This is your best bet to nuke things like a Flare Shielded Spartan.
And take the AC on the Raptors to keep them flying longer. Wouldn't want a stray Melta taking out your expensive flyer.
You also may want to look into the Drop Assault Vanguard RoW as a potentially better fit for a list like this, as it does at least guarantee your Assault Squads arrive T1.
No Power Weapons in those Assault Squads? That is a big perk you aren't using. Triple Power Axes gives you all sorts of helpful AP2 love. Chainglaive is useful, but you need a Fist or Meltabombs to help against armor - something our Legion struggles with.
Here is a take on your list, but opting for DAV instead:
(10) Terror Squad
9x Volkite Chargers
Artificer Armor, Chainglaive, Meltabombs
Anvillus Drop Pod
[385]
Troops:
(15) Assault Squad (Apoth)
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]
(15) Assault Squad (Apoth)
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]
(15) Assault Squad (Apoth)
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]
Fast Attack:
Primaris-Lightining
4x Kraken, BSC, GTA
[230]
(2) Javelin Squadron
MM, CMLs [130]
(10) Night Raptor Squad (Apoth, Chaplain)
2x Power Axe, 2x Chainglaives
Sarge w/ Artificer Armor, Chainglaive & Meltabomb
[315]
Heavy:
Fire Raptor
Reaper, AC, Hellstrikes
[250]
Lord of War:
Konrad Curze
[435]
[3000]
This list basically ignores the auto-lose thing, because I can't see many people caring. It doesn't have Reserve manipulation, but you do get your Assault Squads T1 if you want. You can put Curze with one of those squads if you need him to charge T2, or with the Raptors if you want him to charge T3. Lots of anti-tank in the list and really benefits from TfM. Fear all over the place too.
Anyhow, just some thoughts/ideas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 13:31:26
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Two issues with that. No Reserve manipulation, so reliant heavily on getting your stuff in and not piecemeal.
Second is group dependent, but if you don't have anything on the table, you automatically lose. So you may want an anchor unit.
Also, two Fire Raptros is a bit bland. Why not take a Primaris-Lightning w/ Kraken? This is your best bet to nuke things like a Flare Shielded Spartan.
And take the AC on the Raptors to keep them flying longer. Wouldn't want a stray Melta taking out your expensive flyer.
You also may want to look into the Drop Assault Vanguard RoW as a potentially better fit for a list like this, as it does at least guarantee your Assault Squads arrive T1.
No Power Weapons in those Assault Squads? That is a big perk you aren't using. Triple Power Axes gives you all sorts of helpful AP2 love. Chainglaive is useful, but you need a Fist or Meltabombs to help against armor - something our Legion struggles with.
Here is a take on your list, but opting for DAV instead:
(10) Terror Squad
9x Volkite Chargers
Artificer Armor, Chainglaive, Meltabombs
Anvillus Drop Pod
[385]
Troops:
(15) Assault Squad (Apoth)
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]
(15) Assault Squad (Apoth)
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]
(15) Assault Squad (Apoth)
3x Power Axe, Power Fist & Artificer Armor
[295]
Fast Attack:
Primaris-Lightining
4x Kraken, BSC, GTA
[230]
(2) Javelin Squadron
MM, CMLs [130]
(10) Night Raptor Squad (Apoth, Chaplain)
2x Power Axe, 2x Chainglaives
Sarge w/ Artificer Armor, Chainglaive & Meltabomb
[315]
Heavy:
Fire Raptor
Reaper, AC, Hellstrikes
[250]
Lord of War:
Konrad Curze
[435]
[3000]
This list basically ignores the auto-lose thing, because I can't see many people caring. It doesn't have Reserve manipulation, but you do get your Assault Squads T1 if you want. You can put Curze with one of those squads if you need him to charge T2, or with the Raptors if you want him to charge T3. Lots of anti-tank in the list and really benefits from TfM. Fear all over the place too.
Anyhow, just some thoughts/ideas.
I may be wrong here, but I don't think Angel's Wrath actually requires me to deepstrike, and I don't even think it gives benefits to doing so. Correct me if I'm wrong because this is from memory, but I believe it gives H&R for my jump units and strafing run for the fire raptors and, if I use them, storm eagles.
As for the lack of special weapons in the assault squads and the lack of ac on the fire raptors, I didn't have enough points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 15:57:49
For Khaela Mensha Khaine
For the Emperor and Sanguinius!
DS:90+S++G+++MB--IPw40k15#+D+A+/mWD-R+T(T)DM+
Hah! Ooops! Had it in my head it was Orbital Assault, not Angel's Wrath. Jeez, I need to stop posting while I am working.
That being said, you can still run the list I posted as Angel's Wrath too. Pretty sure it fits all the criteria.
It gives you a reliable way to bust a Flare Shielded AV14 tank via the Lightning, as well as the Fire Raptor to neutralize other armor assets. You have a veritable ton of anti-infantry units and a good chunk of scoring units and no fluff compromise really.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Hah! Ooops! Had it in my head it was Orbital Assault, not Angel's Wrath. Jeez, I need to stop posting while I am working.
Well neither does orbital assault REQUIRE you to deep strike. Would be pretty stupid since you would automatically lose(which albeit I think is pretty stupid in itself).
Only requirement to deep strike are with squads that take dedicated transport that has to deepstrike(like drop pod) as they have to start on dedicated transport if bought. And if dedicated transport doesn't have to deep strike(is there such? Theoretically say rhino with deep strike rule in itself) then that squad and transport can but doesn't have to deep strike.
Technically speaking you can play orbital assault with no deep striking whatsoever.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Hah! Ooops! Had it in my head it was Orbital Assault, not Angel's Wrath. Jeez, I need to stop posting while I am working.
Well neither does orbital assault REQUIRE you to deep strike. Would be pretty stupid since you would automatically lose(which albeit I think is pretty stupid in itself).
Only requirement to deep strike are with squads that take dedicated transport that has to deepstrike(like drop pod) as they have to start on dedicated transport if bought. And if dedicated transport doesn't have to deep strike(is there such? Theoretically say rhino with deep strike rule in itself) then that squad and transport can but doesn't have to deep strike.
Technically speaking you can play orbital assault with no deep striking whatsoever.
I just assumed he would be Deep Striking. It is by no means a requirement.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Hah! Ooops! Had it in my head it was Orbital Assault, not Angel's Wrath. Jeez, I need to stop posting while I am working.
Well neither does orbital assault REQUIRE you to deep strike. Would be pretty stupid since you would automatically lose(which albeit I think is pretty stupid in itself).
Only requirement to deep strike are with squads that take dedicated transport that has to deepstrike(like drop pod) as they have to start on dedicated transport if bought. And if dedicated transport doesn't have to deep strike(is there such? Theoretically say rhino with deep strike rule in itself) then that squad and transport can but doesn't have to deep strike.
Technically speaking you can play orbital assault with no deep striking whatsoever.
I just assumed he would be Deep Striking. It is by no means a requirement.
Due to bad experience for myself and others when deep striking in 40k, I would like to avoid much if any deep striking, especially outside of drop pods.
For Khaela Mensha Khaine
For the Emperor and Sanguinius!
DS:90+S++G+++MB--IPw40k15#+D+A+/mWD-R+T(T)DM+
Terror Assault is much better.
