Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello there,

I have a question regarding Interceptor;

If a enemy deep-strikes close to several units with Interceptor special rule, how do I resolve the Interceptor shooting attacks?

A: I name a single unit with Interceptor, do it's shooting attacks and then move on to the next unit with Interceptor?

B: I have to announce how many units are going to intercept the moment the deep-strikers land and then resolve all their shooting at the same time? (thus potentially wasting shots/overkilling a target)


Thanks in advance!

It never really states an order of operations regarding it. It only allows a Weapon with the Rule to perform the out of Phase action. Nothing requires all units with the Weapon to be declared at the same time.

Since we don't really have anything regarding an order of operations, I would suggest following the standard Shooting Sequence for simplification.

All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

Option A. It is still a shooting attack so would follow the rules for shooting.

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

The sequence rules only apply to things that would happen at the same time. The opponent has to resolve all of their deep strike rolls prior to actually deploying the units. So you will know what is coming in and what is not. You use the shooting rules during the end of movement.

Ceann wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

The sequence rules only apply to things that would happen at the same time. The opponent has to resolve all of their deep strike rolls prior to actually deploying the units. So you will know what is coming in and what is not. You use the shooting rules during the end of movement.

Where did I say different? Isn't nominating the unit to shoot, resolving that, then going to the next following the shooting rules?

 doctortom wrote:

Ceann wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

The sequence rules only apply to things that would happen at the same time. The opponent has to resolve all of their deep strike rolls prior to actually deploying the units. So you will know what is coming in and what is not. You use the shooting rules during the end of movement.

Where did I say different? Isn't nominating the unit to shoot, resolving that, then going to the next following the shooting rules?

Indeed. The Sequencing rules really are when they are between your units and your opponent's units. They do not need to come in to play when it is only your units being involved.

 Charistoph wrote:

Indeed. The Sequencing rules really are when they are between your units and your opponent's units. They do not need to come in to play when it is only your units being involved.

Your statement doesn't hold up when we look at the Sequencing rule



The Sequencing rule is invoked whenever we have two or more rules happening at the same time.

We have two or more instances of Interceptor happening at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

The opponent is the active player.

There is no statement in the Interceptor rule that the player with the Intercepting units gets to choose the order in the case of multiple units with Interceptor. So nothing is overriding the Sequence rule.

The opponent will, according to the Sequencing rules, point to a unit with Intercept and ask if that unit Intercepts and if it does that particular Intercept will get resolved. Rinse and repeat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

It would work this way if the player with Intercepting units was the active player. However, he is not the active player.

There are not two or more rules, there is one rule.
Whether or not it is being used multiple times is irrelevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:

Ceann wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

The sequence rules only apply to things that would happen at the same time. The opponent has to resolve all of their deep strike rolls prior to actually deploying the units. So you will know what is coming in and what is not. You use the shooting rules during the end of movement.

Where did I say different? Isn't nominating the unit to shoot, resolving that, then going to the next following the shooting rules?

You didn't say differently, I was agreeing with you.

Ceann wrote:
There are not two or more rules, there is one rule.
Whether or not it is being used multiple times is irrelevant.

The Sequence rule does not specify that the rules have to be separate rules.

We are talking about two or more instances of Interceptor on separate Army List Entries.

The Interceptor rule on unit A plus the Interceptor rule on unit B equals two rules being invoked.

The Interceptor rule that triggers for unit A does not apply to unit B. Unit B has its own Interceptor rule and is separably invoked.

We then simply resolve the Sequence based on who the active player is in this case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ceann wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

Ceann wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:
All of the Interceptors happen at the end of the opponent's movement phase.

This would mean that the opponent is the active player and gets to choose which Interceptor rules to resolve first per the Sequence rule.

No. There is no statement that all units firing Interceptor shots have to be nominated before resolving any. This isn't Overwatch or rolling for Reserves. You nominate the first unit firing Interceptor shots, resolve that, then you get to nominate another one if you have more, still have a legitimate target to shoot and the desire to shoot, then continue that way until you're done with all the units firing interceptor shots.

The sequence rules only apply to things that would happen at the same time. The opponent has to resolve all of their deep strike rolls prior to actually deploying the units. So you will know what is coming in and what is not. You use the shooting rules during the end of movement.

Where did I say different? Isn't nominating the unit to shoot, resolving that, then going to the next following the shooting rules?

You didn't say differently, I was agreeing with you.

There is no permission to lump all of the instances of Interceptor into a single pool for a shooting sequence (as in Overwatch) or for the firing player to dictate the order among multiple Intercepting units (as in Multiple Overwatch).

In the absence of such permission, Interceptor is resolved in a piecemeal fashion with each instance resolved separably based on the sequence of the active players choosing.

What quote in the BRB gives you permission to treat Interceptor like Overwatch?

Except it is the players choice on when to shoot, they don't have to shoot, they CAN shoot one and then decide whether or not they want to shoot another. The only limitation is that they perform this at the end of the movement step, in no particular order, because you elect to fire one and then elect to fire another. They do not occur at the same time, but sequentially.

Ceann wrote:
Except it is the players choice on when to shoot, they don't have to shoot, they CAN shoot one and then decide whether or not they want to shoot another. The only limitation is that they perform this at the end of the movement step, in no particular order, because you elect to fire one and then elect to fire another. They do not occur at the same time, but sequentially.

There is no permission to resolve the multiple instances of Interceptor 'in no particular order in a sequence of the firing players choosing'. You are making this up.

Per the Sequence rule, the order of rules happening at the same time is dictated by the active player.

How are you hand-waving away the Sequencing rule?

How are you magically treating this case like Overwatch and Multiple Overwatch without the corresponding rule support that the BRB provides for Overwatch and Multiple Overwatch to be specifically handled the way they are?

There is no requirement forcing you to fire with interceptor.
This isn't a triggered requirement, such as rolling all of your reserve rolls, or rolling for morale. You CAN fire, meaning it is the players choice on when they choose to use interceptor or not, you cannot force them to use it.

No one is "hand-waving" away anything.

You are trying to apply a basic rule to a special rule and it is hilarious, the sequencing rule for turns has no precedence, you are using the rules for FIRING A WEAPON, which is performed one weapon at a time.

Ceann wrote:
You CAN fire, meaning it is the players choice on when they choose to use interceptor or not, you cannot force them to use it.

'it is the ACTIVE players choice on when they choose to use interceptor'

FTFY


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ceann wrote:


You are trying to apply a basic rule to a special rule and it is hilarious, the sequencing rule for turns has no precedence, you are using the rules for FIRING A WEAPON, which is performed one weapon at a time.

What part of the Interceptor rule overrides the Sequencing rule?

I can see how the rules for Multiple Overwatch overrides the Sequencing rule but no such rules exist for Interceptor as they do for Overwatch. Why are you insisting on making up rules?

No, it isn't.

You use the SHOOTING rules for interceptor.
The first rule is CHOOSE A UNIT TO FIRE.

You cannot choose two units to fire simultaneously.
You cannot make them choose the unit to fire that you want to fire.

A weapon with the rule CAN be fired.
You don't get to decide whether it is fired or not.
There is no sequence, you are playing word games.

Ceann wrote:
No, it isn't.

You use the SHOOTING rules for interceptor.
The first rule is CHOOSE A UNIT TO FIRE.

You cannot choose two units to fire simultaneously.
You cannot make them choose the unit to fire that you want to fire.

A weapon with the rule CAN be fired.
You don't get to decide whether it is fired or not.

What rule gives you the permission to lump all the instances of Interceptor together as a shooting sequence?

Overwatch has this permission . . .





. . . but Interceptor does not.

There is no permission to lump all of the instances of Interceptor into a single pool for a shooting sequence (as in Overwatch) or for the firing player to dictate the order during the opponent's turn among multiple Intercepting units (as in Multiple Overwatch).

In the absence of such permission, Interceptor is resolved in a piecemeal fashion with each instance resolved separably based on the sequence of the ACTIVE players choosing.

It is now the end of your movement phase.

I am going to fire at your unit that just arrived with my Icarus Array,

You don't get to them immediately demand which units I am using interceptor with, anymore than during the shooting phase that you must declare all of your shooting attacks before you shoot.

I perform the shooting for my Icarus Array using the shooting rules. Once the shooting is resolved I can elect to fire another one should I choose too.

I CAN fire them, not I MUST fire them.
There is no "pool" you elect each one individually.
Once you have resolved one shooting you CAN decide if you want to shoot another.
I CAN fire them, you don't fire them.

The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but
has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.


You nominate a unit BEFORE you choose to fire, you cannot make them choose targets before a unit is nominated.

Your argument makes no sense.

It is the end of the opponent's movement phase.

You have 3 weapons with Interceptor among 3 units.

The timing for each of these Interceptors happens "at the same time" so Sequencing rule applies.

The ACTIVE player chooses the order the Interceptor rules apply.

The ACTIVE player points to one of the Intercepting weapons and the controlling player decides whether to Intercept or not.

Intercept is resolved for that weapon.

Rinse and Repeat for all instances of the Interceptor rule.


This isn't Overwatch or Multiple Overwatch so quit treating it like it is. Interceptor does not have the permissions that Overwatch/Multiple Overwatch does. Quit making that up.

Interceptor simply does not have these permissions . . .





. . . so why do you keep adding those permissions to Interceptor? If you do then you are house-ruling to treat Interceptor like Overwatch.

At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit...


The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but
has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.


You cannot force them to declare all of the units they are firing at before they have chosen a unit to fire. That is not following the rules for shooting. If your first attack kills a unit then it is no longer a legal target for firing.

Last I checked sequencing was not a special rule and does not override the rules of the shooting phase.

Interceptor is used as a special rule when the unit is FIRING, which is after it has been nominated. You don't get to pick the order they nominate. Quit making that up.

Ceann wrote:
At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired...


The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but
has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.


You cannot force them to declare all of the units they are firing at before they have chosen a unit to fire. That is not following the rules for shooting. If your first attack kills a unit then it is no longer a legal target for firing.

Last I checked sequencing was not a special rule and does not override the rules of the shooting phase.

Interceptor is used as a special rule when the unit is FIRING, which is after it has been nominated. You don't get to pick the order they nominate. Quit making that up.

Are we in the Shooting Phase?

I am talking about the shooting sequence, not the shooting phase.

Unless you know of some special way of shooting that doesn't follow the sequence.

Ceann wrote:
I am talking about the shooting sequence, not the shooting phase.

Unless you know of some special way of shooting that doesn't follow the sequence.

So the ACTIVE player choose one Interceptor rule to resolve first. That interceptor rule is resolved using the rules for a shooting attack.

Then the ACTIVE player chooses the next Interceptor rule to resolve. That interceptor rule is resolved using the rules for a shooting attack.

Then the ACTIVE player chooses the next Interceptor rule to resolve. That interceptor rule is resolved using the rules for a shooting attack.

Rinse and Repeat.



Remember Overwatch has specific rule permissions that allow it to be handled differently than the above. Interceptor lacks these permissions.

If you handle Interceptor like Overwatch you are house-ruling.

Sorry, you cannot choose which interceptor to resolve.
Because the 2nd step of the shooting is naming a target.

Interceptor asks you to target a unit, which you cannot do until after you nominate a unit.

Interceptor
At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit...

The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.

Interceptor comes into effect until AFTER a unit's nominated.
You do not get to determine the order units are nominated.
Quit making that up.

@OP

The answer is A, col is just playing with words and no one would actually agree with his interpretation IRL.

Ceann wrote:
Sorry, you cannot choose which interceptor to resolve.
Because the 2nd step of the shooting is naming a target.

Interceptor asks you to target a unit, which you cannot do until after you nominate a unit.

Interceptor
At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit...

The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.

Interceptor comes into effect until AFTER a unit's nominated.
You do not get to determine the order units are nominated.
Quit making that up.

@OP

The answer is A, col is just playing with words and no one would actually agree with his interpretation IRL.

You aren't in the Shooting Phase so why are you treating this case like it is occurring in the context of a Shooting Phase?

The ACTIVE player is deciding the order in which the separate Interceptor rules apply.

If you do otherwise then you are treating Interceptor like it is Overwatch and giving Interceptor permissions it does not have, namely these permissions . . .




If you treat Interceptor like it is Overwatch then you are house-ruling. There is a forum called Proposed Rules for suggestions along those lines. In YMDC we stick to what the actual rules say.

There is no permission to lump all of the instances of Interceptor into a single pool for a shooting sequence (as in Overwatch) or for the firing player to dictate the order during the opponent's turn among multiple Intercepting units (as in Multiple Overwatch).

In the absence of such permission, Interceptor is resolved in a piecemeal fashion with each instance resolved separably based on the sequence of the ACTIVE players choosing.

Doctoralex wrote:
Hello there,

I have a question regarding Interceptor;

If a enemy deep-strikes close to several units with Interceptor special rule, how do I resolve the Interceptor shooting attacks?

A: I name a single unit with Interceptor, do it's shooting attacks and then move on to the next unit with Interceptor?

B: I have to announce how many units are going to intercept the moment the deep-strikers land and then resolve all their shooting at the same time? (thus potentially wasting shots/overkilling a target)


Thanks in advance!

The answer is: A
After your opponent has finished his movement phase then you can do your out of turn Interceptor shooting as per the normal shooting rules, ie. pick a unit, shoot, pick another unit, shoot.

The rules for firing a weapon are basic rules Col.
If you can't understand than then I suppose I can see why you are having a hard time with this.

In YMDC, you just invent things and do not follow the requirements to provide precedence.

These are the basic rules for firing a weapon.

The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot.
2. Choose a Target. *Interceptor is decided here*
3. Select a Weapon.

As you can see in order to select a weapon to fire, you must first nominate a unit. What you are stating is breaking the rules. You want the player to name a target before a unit is selected, which is not the rules for a shooting sequence.

Nothing is permitting you to break the rules for shooting and we all can clearly see that there are no other rules for shooting to use.

We are using the rules for interceptor, you quoting Overwatch is obfuscation and means nothing. If you want to open a thread about overwatch feel free.

Ceann wrote:
The rules for firing a weapon are basic rules Col.
If you can't understand than then I suppose I can see why you are having a hard time with this.

In YMDC, you just invent things and do not follow the requirements to provide precedence.

These are the basic rules for firing a weapon.

The Shooting Sequence
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot.
2. Choose a Target. *Interceptor is decided here*
3. Select a Weapon.

As you can see in order to select a weapon to fire, you must first nominate a unit. What you are stating is breaking the rules. You want the player to name a target before a unit is selected, which is not the rules for a shooting sequence.

Nothing is permitting you to break the rules for shooting and we all can clearly see that there are no other rules for shooting to use.

Ceann,

This is the end of the opponent's movement phase.

You aren't in the Shooting Phase so you don't have permission to shoot.

Whatever permission you have to shoot is granted by an instance of the Interceptor rule.

The Interceptor rules don't happen all at the same time.

Per the Sequencing rule, the ACTIVE player decides the order in which the Interceptor instances happen.

There is no permission to lump all of the instances of Interceptor into a single pool for a shooting sequence (as in Overwatch) or for the firing player to dictate the order during the opponent's turn among multiple Intercepting units (as in Multiple Overwatch).

In the absence of such permission, Interceptor is resolved in a piecemeal fashion with each instance resolved separably based on the sequence of the ACTIVE players choosing.

Ceann wrote:
We are using the rules for interceptor, you quoting Overwatch is obfuscation and means nothing. If you want to open a thread about overwatch feel free.

Considering that Overwatch has specific permissions, how are you resolving Interceptor any different than Overwatch?

If you cannot show a difference then you are magically treating Interceptor like Overwatch without any rule in the BRB allowing this. If there is no difference for you between Interceptor and Overwatch then you are house ruling.

Remember Overwatch has these specific permissions . . .




. . . Interceptor does not.

You are right, they don't happen at the same time.
You are right we aren't in the shooting phase.

"Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise."

We are performing the sequence of shooting.
All shooting in the game uses these rules, the unit firing Interceptor is electing to use the rules for shooting. There is nothing taking those rules away.

The rules for interceptor are attached to selecting a weapon to fire.

Which is done after you nominate a unit.

You do not get to determine the order unit's are nominated.
There are never two instances of Interceptor occurring in order to be sequenced.

You have to nominate a unit before Interceptor can be used.

col_impact wrote:


This is the end of the opponent's movement phase.

You are in a out of turn Shooting Phase so you do have permission to shoot.

The controlling player decides the order in which the Interceptor instances happen.

Does that make it easier for people to understand?