North Korea detains another American

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**Frazzled**

NK detains another American, and wait, there's an American university in North Korea?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-detainee-idUSKBN1830GM

North Korea detains another American citizen, KCNA reports

By Ju-min Park | SEOUL

North Korea said on Sunday it has detained another U.S. citizen on suspicion of "hostile acts" against the state, which would make him the fourth American to be held by the isolated country amid heightened diplomatic tensions with Washington.

Kim Hak Song, who worked for the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology, was detained on Saturday, the North's KCNA news agency said.

"A relevant institution of the DPRK detained American citizen Kim Hak Song on May 6 under a law of the DPRK on suspension of his hostile acts against it," KCNA said. DPRK is short for the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, North Korea's official name.
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A third U.S. citizen, Kim Sang Dok, who was associated with the same school, was detained in late April for hostile acts, according to the North's official media.

The U.S. State Department said it is aware of the latest reported detention.

"The security of U.S. citizens is one of the department's highest priorities. When a U.S. citizen is reported to be detained in North Korea, we work with the Swedish embassy in Pyongyang," a State Department official said in an emailed statement, declining to provide further details for privacy reasons.

The reported detention comes as tensions on the Korean peninsula run high, driven by harsh rhetoric from Pyongyang and Washington over the North's pursuit of nuclear weapons in response to what it says is a threat of U.S.-instigated war.

The Pyongyang University of Science and Technology (PUST) was founded by evangelical Christians and opened in 2010. Its students are generally children of the country's elite.

The volunteer faculty of PUST, many of whom are evangelical Christians, has a curriculum that includes subjects once considered taboo in North Korea, such as capitalism. The college is an unlikely fit in a country that has been condemned by the United States for cracking down on freedom of religion.

Kim, who manages the school's experimental farm at the college of agriculture and life sciences, was detained on route by train from Pyongyang to China's border town of Dandong, the university's co-founder Chan-Mo Park told Reuters.

Park declined to comment further.

A message by Kim Hak Song dated February 2015 on the website of a Korean-Brazilian church in Sao Paulo said he was a Christian missionary planning to start an experimental farm at PUST and was trying to help the North Korean people learn to become self-sufficient.
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No further details were available about the circumstances related to the arrests of the two men associated with the college. A spokesman for PUST was not immediately available for comment.

North Korea, which has been criticized for its human rights record, has in the past used detained Americans to extract high-profile visits from the United States, with which it has no formal diplomatic relations.

The other two Americans already held in North Korea are Otto Warmbier, a 22-year-old student, and Kim Dong Chul, a 62-year-old Korean-American missionary.

Warmbier was detained in January 2016 and sentenced to 15 years hard labor for attempting to steal a propaganda banner.

Two months later, Kim Dong Chul was sentenced to 10 years hard labor for subversion. Neither has appeared in public since being sentenced.

(Additional reporting by Sarah N. Lynch in Washington; Writing by Jack Kim; Editing by Paul Simao and Mary Milliken)

**SlaveToDorkness**

Why you would remain in a country that is threatening nuclear war with the country you belong to is completely beyond me.

**Frazzled**

I think its because they are Christians attempting to spread Christianity.

Or they get really big paychecks.

But I will take any info on this as it seems to be a illogical move.

**Ouze**

I hate to blame the victim but if you are in Iran or North Korea as an American, then whatever happens to you is substantially your fault.

**redleger**

Ouze wrote:
I hate to blame the victim but if you are in Iran or North Korea as an American, then whatever happens to you is substantially your fault.

Comes down to risk mitigation. I don't blame the victim, however at some point as an individual you have to own the decisions that put you in a certain situation. My blame lays on the communist regime however from a personal responsibility view point the person should own their flawed thinking.

**KTG17**

Leave him there. No idea why any American bothers to go there. They either screw around and break the laws, or are used as political pawns. If I were a US President, I would just tell Americans "Don't go to North Korea, and if you do, and are arrested, don't cry to me about it."

There are like 170 countries on this planet. Pick another. Except Iran.

**jhe90**

KTG17 wrote:
Leave him there. No idea why any American bothers to go there. They either screw around and break the laws, or are used as political pawns. If I were a US President, I would just tell Americans "Don't go to North Korea, and if you do, and are arrested, don't cry to me about it."

There are like 170 countries on this planet. Pick another. Except Iran.

Given a very well known political issue that result in that country having a sate of semi war with a nation and tense right now at that.

going to NK as any western citizen is not wise.
American particularity

**KTG17**

Yeah but this crap has been going on there for decades. The US will have to bargain with NK to get them back, whether its money, food, whatever. They have been playing this game forever and fat boy is just using the same playbook as his pops used, because, well, its worked.

So leave the idiot there, Trump.

**jhe90**

KTG17 wrote:
Yeah but this crap has been going on there for decades. The US will have to bargain with NK to get them back, whether its money, food, whatever. They have been playing this game forever and fat boy is just using the same playbook as his pops used, because, well, its worked.

So leave the idiot there, Trump.

Yes. I mean also by stopping Americans going there in first place would not hurt.
This is basically hostile territory, they are qausi at war with the US and SK. Have the only us Navy vessel currently captured.

The new leader ramped up tensions no end, things are more tense than any time in recent decades known..
This is not a time for tourism.

SK is fine. NK... Nope. Just do not go there.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Hanging around in dubious parts of the world (either because of their official government or because of their lack of government) is a sketchy thing to do full stop, but there always seem to be those willing to do so

I suspect that at least some of those foreigners in NK are there if not spying full time, at least passing on information either for fee, favour or patriotism

whether any of those actually being detained are involved in that way, however, I have no idea and hope they are released without harm as soon as possible

**jhe90**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hanging around in dubious parts of the world (either because of their official government or because of their lack of government) is a sketchy thing to do full stop, but there always seem to be those willing to do so

I suspect that at least some of those foreigners in NK are there if not spying full time, at least passing on information either for fee, favour or patriotism

whether any of those actually being detained are involved in that way, however, I have no idea and hope they are released without harm as soon as possible

Probbly not far from the truth.
I mean its eyes, controlled, limited eyes but eyes none the less in a country that is likely harder to get information in than most.

Someone's observations and information is going to be of some value.

**Grey Templar**

The article says he was trying to teach people there how to farm and become self-sufficient.

Becoming self-sufficient is probably heresy in NK.

**tneva82**

jhe90 wrote:
The new leader ramped up tensions no end, things are more tense than any time in recent decades known..
This is not a time for tourism.

Who says they went there for tourism? There's Finnish family living there as well. For work.

Incidentally work seems to be related to teaching new way to farm potatoes or something. Lots of workers there seems to be in food related job which makes sense in a country with lack of food.

**Freakazoitt**

The article says he was trying to teach people there how to farm and become self-sufficient.

Becoming self-sufficient is probably heresy in NK.

But they are already practicing that and even selling self-produced food for money.

**Bi'ios**

Freakazoitt wrote:
The article says he was trying to teach people there how to farm and become self-sufficient.

Becoming self-sufficient is probably heresy in NK.

But they are already practicing that and even selling self-produced food for money.

Capitalism is an crime. Communism is the only option. Father will provide for us

**jouso**

Ouze wrote:
I hate to blame the victim but if you are in Iran or North Korea as an American, then whatever happens to you is substantially your fault.

Different leagues. Iran is a functioning economy run by a bunch of religious lunatics. No different than, say, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. You feel several degrees of magnitude safer than in Pakistan or India, too.

I go to Iran a couple times per year and it's a wonderful country to visit and do business with. And I've met quite a few Americans there, too.

**Freakazoitt**

Capitalism is an crime. Communism is the only option. Father will provide for us

Since 80s NK is more like monarchy with controlled low lvl capitalism

**Ouze**

jouso wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I hate to blame the victim but if you are in Iran or North Korea as an American, then whatever happens to you is substantially your fault.

Different leagues. Iran is a functioning economy run by a bunch of religious lunatics. No different than, say, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. You feel several degrees of magnitude safer than in Pakistan or India, too.

I go to Iran a couple times per year and it's a wonderful country to visit and do business with. And I've met quite a few Americans there, too.

Iran has detained 5 Americans, and North Korea has detained 4.

In both situations going there as an American is rolling the dice, IMO.

**jouso**

Ouze wrote:
jouso wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I hate to blame the victim but if you are in Iran or North Korea as an American, then whatever happens to you is substantially your fault.

Different leagues. Iran is a functioning economy run by a bunch of religious lunatics. No different than, say, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. You feel several degrees of magnitude safer than in Pakistan or India, too.

I go to Iran a couple times per year and it's a wonderful country to visit and do business with. And I've met quite a few Americans there, too.

Iran has detained 5 Americans, and North Korea has detained 4.

In both situations going there as an American is rolling the dice, IMO.

Far more westerners are detained in the UAE on questionable charges, and hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Americans go to Dubai/Abu Dhabi/etc.

http://nypost.com/2016/04/11/american-woman-held-in-dubai-for-refusing-to-talk-to-men-at-airport/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-dooley/americans-jailed-in-uae-f_b_8010832.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/03/17/american-teacher-has-been-detained-in-uae-over-faked-loans-taken-out-in-his-name.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/couple-detained-uae-sex-outside-of-marriage-south-africa-ukraine-abu-dhabi-a7619201.html

If I don't boycott the US when they start asking me for my social media passwords I won't do it with Iran.

**Ouze**

Well, you've convinced me: I won't go to the UAE, either.

**Orlanth**

Ouze wrote:
I hate to blame the victim but if you are in Iran or North Korea as an American, then whatever happens to you is substantially your fault.

That is rather heartless and harsh.
People go to gakhole countries for humanitarian reasons, if the need is great they might choose to stay. Usually its relatively safe. ISIS got attention by targeting aid workers and executing them, and disgusted even Al Quaeda in doing so. North Korea and Iran both understand that aid workers should be left alone. Neither country has much mercy on missionaries even on a good day though, however a different dynamic differs again, many missionaries go to places like this knowing full well it may cost them their lives and count that as part of the religion.

Then you have journalists, who usually short stay and negotiate some form of immunity; and businessmen, many of either will likely have intelligence connexions. When most tourists and businessmen are warned away from visiting a country, is when others are selectively encouraged to go.

Danger tourists however, I am with you there.

**BigWaaagh**

I have no doubt that one, or more, of these individuals j-u-s-t might be involved in some snooping, but even then why the feth would anyone step one foot into that gakhole unless you're Dennis Rodman?

**Frazzled**

Someone teaching potato farming a spy? Is he putting secret microphones in the spuds?

**BigWaaagh**

Frazzled wrote:
Someone teaching potato farming a spy? Is he putting secret microphones in the spuds?

What was I thinking...spies always announce themselves and dress like James Bond.

**Easy E**

Guys, we have to send Americans there in order to be the handlers for our spies! Come on. Everyone knows that!

**BigWaaagh**

Easy E wrote:
Guys, we have to send Americans there in order to be the handlers for our spies! Come on. Everyone knows that!

And spread the joy that is Tater Tots!

**oldravenman3025**

And the moral of this story is........stay the hell away from Krazy Kim's amusement park unless you want to end up in a Nork "Happy Camp" for being a "Capitalist-Imperialist Running-Dog Spy and Enemy of the Peaceful Socialist Workers of Glorious Juche Paradise".

**sebster**

Countries don't get to just walk away from their citizens when they're jailed overseas. Hell, even if they've actually done something wrong, the government is still obligated to make sure they're supported through the legal process.

This idea that you can just decide 'well you shouldn't have been there' and do nothing about their detention is a bit incredible, to be honest.

**oldravenman3025**

sebster wrote:
Countries don't get to just walk away from their citizens when they're jailed overseas. Hell, even if they've actually done something wrong, the government is still obligated to make sure they're supported through the legal process.

This idea that you can just decide 'well you shouldn't have been there' and do nothing about their detention is a bit incredible, to be honest.

This is North Korea we're talking about here. The captives in question might as well be on another whole plane of existence.

If you get thrown in the pokey, you are screwed. Unless Krazy Kim wants to extort something from your government. Then, you might get released after a thrilling and exciting stay at a Happy Camp, and spending some quality time with those nice Nork interrogators from the State Security Department of North Korea.

**sebster**

oldravenman3025 wrote:
This is North Korea we're talking about here. The captives in question might as well be on another whole plane of existence.

If you get thrown in the pokey, you are screwed. Unless Krazy Kim wants to extort something from your government. Then, you might get released after a thrilling and exciting stay at a Happy Camp, and spending some quality time with those nice Nork interrogators from the State Security Department of North Korea.

North Korea is a very gak place and its government is closer to the mafia than a real government, but even still your description is fairly, um, hyper-exaggerated? Something like that.

Anyhow, North Korea is crazy but that doesn't mean all norms are surrendered. Diplomats can still work to make sure the prosecution makes formal charges, and gives legal resources to the defendant so he can mount a real defense. And they can work to make sure that if any of the above doesn't happen the person doesn't linger interminably in a NK jail.

As far as despotic regimes who sometimes nab westerners for no good reason go, NK is actually better than most. After a few months NK have had had their fun and their sense of feeling important, and they let them go.