Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My first real game of 40k since the end of 4th edition - I took some sub-par list choices (was just trying out units), didn't play as tactically as I should have, and ultimately got messed up by the terrain. But... lessons learned.

Orks - 2000 ; 6 CP
Batallion
HQ 1: Big Mek on Warbike (KFF) - 101
HQ 2: Weirdboy
Troops 1: 30 Boyz (29 Slugga/Choppa+Nob)
Troops 2: 26 Boyz (26 Shoota Boyz)
Troops 3: 28 Gretchin
Elites 1: 10 Tankbustas+2 Bomb Squigs - 190
Elites 2: 5 Tankbustas+1 Bomb Squig - 95
Elites 3: 5 Tankbustas+1 Bomb Squig - 95
Heavy Support 1: Gorkanaut - 364
Fast Attack 1: 6 Warbikes - 162
Fast Attack 2: 6 Warbikes - 162
Dedicated Transport 1: Trukk (Big Shoota, Wrecking Ball) - 85
Dedicated Transport 2: Trukk (Big Shoota, Wrecking Ball) - 85

Space Marines (going off memory here) - 2000
HQ: Pedro Cantor
HQ: Chaplain
Troops: 4 Tactical Squad+1 Missile Launcher
Troops: 4 Tactical Squad+1 Missile Launcher
Troops: 4 Tactical Squad+1 Missile Launcher
Troops: 4 Tactical Squad+1 Missile Launcher
Heavy Support: 5 Devastators (4x Missile Launchers)
Heavy Support: 5 Devastators (4x Missile Launchers)
Elite: Sternguard (5)
Elite: Sternguard (5)
Elite: Sternguard (5)
Fast Attack: Assault Marines (3 flamers (?))
Dedicated Transport: Rhino (Stormbolter)
Dedicated Transport: Rhino (Stormbolter)
Dedicated Transport: Rhino (Stormbolter)
Dedicated Transport: Rhino (Stormbolter)
Dedicated Transport: Rhino (Stormbolter)

This'll be a short bat-rep, but I'll try to hit the key points.

Pre-deployment: http://imgur.com/hSXobEa
We alternated placing objectives; I ended up placing my two objectives on the outsides of the map. I thought it was going to be split down the middle horizontally; my opponent put them in the trenches. - I didn't end up getting a picture of the deployment lines before the game began, but the short version is that I deployed all my troops along the midline (with everything minus the Dakka Jet and a squad of Bikers on the north side). Orkz managed to deploy all their units first, and took turn 1 for themselves.

Mid-SM turn 1: http://imgur.com/Qoe3dVB
Managed to take out one rhino. The Dakka Jet ( ) killed 3 of the passengers. Shoota boyz were jumped to the enemies objective, and managed to take out three 2+ cover save marines with their shooting. <3

End of game: http://imgur.com/uRCTdAA (this picture is prior to my Gorkanaut and Big Mek being killed on his turn - at that point, I called it).
Should have held back on my two objectives, and jumped into his second when it was looking like the game would be ending; I really needed to force him to come to me, instead of trying to force my way in there. Also, rhinos were damn near unkillable - I fear if my opponent brings any real battle tanks; or forbid, even a super heavy. I really don't know how we're going to tank it out tbh. Also, I failed two charges on the Rhinos with both of my Tankbusta units; but since I didn't have Tankhammers or Nobs with Big Choppas, it wouldn't have done much anyways.

Shortest version: Terrain did me no favors, rhinos blocked the way, and were unclearable by our Tankbustas . I should have taken an altered/revised list, and not trying to move SM's out of their trench. Also, Devastators/Missile Launchers do serious work this edition.

Good:
1. Bomb Squigs, when they land, they do a ton of work. 2+ hit, 3/4+ wound, d6 wounds; is this what it feels like to be a Space Marine?
2. Dakka Jet was a ton of fun to shoot with; 18 shots at 4+ to hit is FUN. Would bring again (even though I'm not 100% sure how effective they are; this one killed 6+ marines in two turns though).
3. Weirdboy with "Da Jump" is an allstar - nothing felt better than using Da Jump and deploying 26 Shoota Boyz into their frontline, and then following it up with 30 Slugga Boyz after the Shootas ate the charge. Since the weirdboy doesn't move with the squad it jumps (I initially thought it did), this frees you up to use a second Weirdboy for the +1A Waaagh! power - jumping in a buffed up horde of 30 boyz (either type) will munch any unit it touches.
4. Shoota Boy overwatch is hilarious, and can be randomly deadly.
5. Warbikers felt fun to use - they got a ton of shots, and were pretty survivable.
6. KFF saved so many random shooting wounds; totally worth bringing at least one of these to every list.
7. 20+ Grot shooting is hilariously fun. Dangerous in numbers indeed.

Neutral:
1. Bomb squigs are great, but if they fail the wound roll (which is very possible), then they're a huge whiff.
2. Dakka Jet movement is very finicky, thankfully you can fire in a 360 arc; but positioning them over a couple turns will require a lot of forethought.
3. Gorkanaut does nothing against vehicles - sure, I rolled 11 shots for his Deffshoota (with a reroll) over two turns, but he barely put 1-2 wounds on a rhino even with his full weapon set (5+ to hit HURTS) - I was largely blocked by my own troops/terrain this game, so he never hit melee. I'll have to revise him when he manages to get into a scrap.
4. Really need a way to deny cover saves; 2+ Marines in cover/trenches is unmovable - Lobbas may be the key here.
5. Warbikers are survivable, but their damage output is pretty low, especially in melee - best to keep these guys riding around and using the Dakka Guns, and charging in only when you really need to tie something up.
6. Wrecking Balls really didn't do anything - without the ability to get increased Weapon Skill, they bring you up from 5+ to 4+ against T7, and give -1Sv; but that's not really anything tbh, especially when you have 3 attacks, hitting on 5+. They're cheap at 3 points, but I don't expect Trukks to win melee against anything anyways, so... I'd only take them if I have points to spare.

Bad:
1. Flamers in trenches = bad time; you have to hope for an 11 or 12 to be able to charge them without eating flamer fire in Overwatch.
2. Actually, flamers in general are rough. They chew through hordes like nobodies business; and are damn solid against vehicles too. d6 auto hits per unit is no joke.
3. Tankbustas don't seem to be very good. I'll admit I was probably unlucky (and my opponent rolled a lot of 6's for Rhino armor saves), but they didn't really do much.
4. Vehicles can deny a lot of terrain/movement by their very existence - additionally, drifting during charges/moves = a large ability to block LoS, at no penalty. Really don't like their ability to do that, but I guess Trukks can do it too...
5. Needed more long range guns - Big Gunz/Mek Gunz will probably make their way into a lot of lists.
6. Not being able to fall back and shoot with small units on the fringe (warbikers) is a huge deal - really need to support these units with multiple others.
7. Vehicles are fething unkillable, especially since Tankbustas/Gorkanaut can't get the job done themselves. As you can see from the images, the Rhinos were a nuisance the entire game, and stopped me from doing anything.
8. Missile launchers... d6 vs hordes, Krak vs heavy armor - they feel too versatile. 4d6 from a single devastator squad can wipe out a whole unit of boyz (since 6+ is nothing); and still threaten vehicles at a massive range.
6. 20+ Grots in melee on the other hand, not going to do anything except die. 2S and 2T is nothing; you need 6's to even hurt things. That said, if you have a Weirdboy handy, you can jump them out on your turn (provided they make it that long, haha).

I disagree about tank bustas. Reroll misses to hit. 3 damage per rocket. I take 2 6 man squads and throw them in 1 trukk. They did the majority wounds to one of the Knights I played against

mhalko1 wrote:
I disagree about tank bustas. Reroll misses to hit. 3 damage per rocket. I take 2 6 man squads and throw them in 1 trukk. They did the majority wounds to one of the Knights I played against

You don't take bomb squigs? I find those things are all stars the 18in range isn't a huge deal in a trukk with assault weapons but the 2+ reroll to hit and the d6 damage they do is amazingly good for a model that costs about half the points of a basic tankbusta. The fact they don't count for morale is just icing on the cake.

I haven't yet but I intend to. I was just moving the trukk slightly inside 24" of the knight. This way I could shoot and he would have to make an 11" charge in order to get me. Once it was lower I zoomed forward to throw 2 melta bombs at it.

Didn't realize Bomb Squigs got the re-rolled to hit from Tank Hunters; that's a huge deal. Still a 50/50 to wound on most targets, followed up by a random d6 damage, but... they're a solid addition to the Tankbusta Squads.

fe40k wrote:
Didn't realize Bomb Squigs got the re-rolled to hit from Tank Hunters; that's a huge deal. Still a 50/50 to wound on most targets, followed up by a random d6 damage, but... they're a solid addition to the Tankbusta Squads.

That's what command points are for. Re-rolling the D6 results on those weapons if you roll bad.

Can you clarify what you mean by "drifting"? As in what the Rhinos were doing that seemed so cheesy.

I'm not trying to be snarky, if this is already a commonly known thing I apologize, I'm legitimately curious about this phenomenon.

 Jambles wrote:
Can you clarify what you mean by "drifting"? As in what the Rhinos were doing that seemed so cheesy.

I'm not trying to be snarky, if this is already a commonly known thing I apologize, I'm legitimately curious about this phenomenon.

Drifting is moving your vehicle forward with the longside facing frontwards. With the old movement rules, people doing this would move normally but then pivot the vehicle at the end of movement.

 JohnU wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Can you clarify what you mean by "drifting"? As in what the Rhinos were doing that seemed so cheesy.

I'm not trying to be snarky, if this is already a commonly known thing I apologize, I'm legitimately curious about this phenomenon.

Drifting is moving your vehicle forward with the longside facing frontwards. With the old movement rules, people doing this would move normally but then pivot the vehicle at the end of movement.

Ohh kay, so it's just a pet peeve thing about how people move their vehicles from spot to spot? Seems an odd thing to harp on. Rules wise it's not like you couldn't end your vehicle's movement phase with them facing sideways in previous editions.

@Jambles

As this edition no longer has firing arcs, or vehicle facings; you can move your vehicles with their longest side facing the enemy, and still fire all your guns/move as normal.

This will deny the enemy more of the board, as well as reduce LOS to your models.

In this picture (http://imgur.com/uRCTdAA) my opponent was considering charging one of his Rhinos sideways at me, to block that entire lane of movement - there's no penalty for doing this anymore.

why even fight the rhinos, just ignore em they are useless in a fight. course I am still waiting on my 8th ed. stuff so I am thinking in 7th ed. terms.... but I mean they still don't pack much of a punch I am guessing, and are possibly even harder to kill now (still guessing).

@Books

They were blocking every avenue of attack; my options were to kill them, or to engage them in melee, fall back towards the enemy lines, and get shot up during the opponents turn.

Even if I did the second option, they'd just tie me back up again in the charge phase after shooting, so it wouldn't accomplish too much.

Short version: they blocked off my paths, and due to new fight rules, I had to deal with them before I could move on.

that's brutal, I don't know much about orks units. so I don't know what kinda weapon options you have. I am also overall new to the game and only have played with friends so my knowledge is limited in that effect.

that said was there any high ground and decent ranged heavies available to you?

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Didn't realize Bomb Squigs got the re-rolled to hit from Tank Hunters; that's a huge deal. Still a 50/50 to wound on most targets, followed up by a random d6 damage, but... they're a solid addition to the Tankbusta Squads.

That's what command points are for. Re-rolling the D6 results on those weapons if you roll bad.

All my command points are slotted for the meka dread. 4+ fnp.
That thing is a beast and puts the morkanaut to shame with its durability.
T7, 3+/5++, and a 4+ fnp (that you need to reroll if you fail so it doesn't get worse.) even mortal wounds will have a hard time getting through.
I really only need it to soak up a lot of damage and last for 1-2 turns so my army doesn't dwindle to shooting and makes it into assault.

@Books

There was some ruins at the bottom of the map between both our armies - I was unfamiliar with the rules, and didn't realize Infantry treated it as basically open terrain; Monsters/Vehicles/Bikers would have had to stop on the bottom, then climb over it next turn.

I should have just moved my infantry over/on top of it and get moving forward.

As far as as heavies/ranged options, Orks have Kannons and other random weapons batteries that looks pretty solid - I'll have to try those out.

@gungo

The Meka Dread looks great; 4+ FNP is real nice. That said, people will be counting on it a lot more than I feel they should; take enough degrading 50/50s and things go down fast - that said, command rerolls help a lot.

I just need the meka dread to survive 2 turns so the rest of the army can get in range.

This is my planned list as I have most of the models already:
Ghazkull= 215
Nob w waagh banner (kustom shoota) = 79

30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoota) = 180
30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoota) = 180

5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig x2) = 105
5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig x2) = 105
5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig) = 95
-Battlewagon w deffrolla = 180

5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45

Deffkopta (bomb, twin shoota) = 69
Deffkopta (bomb, twin shoota) = 69
Deffkopta (bomb, twin shoota) = 69

15 stormboys (nob w big choppa) = 129
Boss zagstruk= 88

Mekgun (kmk, 5 grots) = 48
Mekgun (kmk, 5 grots) = 48

Meka dread (rattler gun, dread klaw, kff) = 206? (Drop a kommando squad if needed)

2000 total /10 drops for first turn intiative

Idea is simply harass the back line with cheap infiltrating kommandos that can charge turn 1 w reroll searching for a 9 to lock up shooting units in combat and to atk with str4 ap-2 melee.

Rush forward with 3x scouting deffkoptas that drop a bigbomm turn 1 that does 5x single mortal wounds on a 5+ each hit and harasses in melee w 2d3 str5 atks. (Hit tough units like terminators)

And rush forward with battlewagon shooting 15x str8 ap-2 dam3 reroll to hit rokkits and 5x bomb squigs to put forward pressure. If needed finish off the unit with 6x 2+ to hit, str8 ap-2 dam1 deffrolla atks. (This unit needs to be able to take out an imperial knight in 1 turn.)

Use the stormboys to clear and claim objectives w zagstruk (makes them fearless) and big choppa nob carrying the weight.

All the while 60 buffed up by a waagh banner and ghaz waagh boys bubble wrapping from melee or short range shooting a meka dread that gives nearly the entire ork deployment zone a 5++ so they can advance into combat while shooting w some shootas until combat where the choppas go to work. I'd slowly remove Casualties from the shootas as the orks advance. Each choppa boy has 5x (2 base, 1choppa, 1 ghaz, 1 greentide) atks at 2+ to hit.

I get further Support fire w the 2x Mek guns who hold any home objective and fire str8 ap-3 shots. And the meka dread that keeps everyone Alive with a 5++ and being a giant focus fire advancing target for the first turn or two. While I use command points to keep that 4+ fnp as long as possible.

If the meka dread is 200-250 I can fit all the above into a nice TAC list. This is 110boys and a lot of str8 ap-2/-3 decent shooting aka 4+ ish. My only issue is 10 drops is going to mean I may end up going 2nd a lot more then I want. So hoping the mekadread weathers the first volley well as it will be a big focus Fire target. The entire army is goff and 6 command points and ghaz is warlord w the extra atk trait.

fe40k wrote:
@Jambles

As this edition no longer has firing arcs, or vehicle facings; you can move your vehicles with their longest side facing the enemy, and still fire all your guns/move as normal.

This will deny the enemy more of the board, as well as reduce LOS to your models.

In this picture (http://imgur.com/uRCTdAA) my opponent was considering charging one of his Rhinos sideways at me, to block that entire lane of movement - there's no penalty for doing this anymore.

Wasn't a penalty in 7th for doing that. This is not a new tactic. Never seen a Marines player who moves their rhinos butt to butt?

@Jambles

I quit at the end of 4th edition, start of 5th; and I only ever played against my friend.

Did they remove vehicle facings in 7th?

fe40k wrote:
@Jambles

I quit at the end of 4th edition, start of 5th; and I only ever played against my friend.

Did they remove vehicle facings in 7th?

Rhino side and front AV has always been the same, AFAIK?

Back in 5th edition, the rules for vehicles were "vehicles move forwards, backwards, or pivot on the spot." You could do the "side to side" moves with Rhinos but in practice, you wanted to keep your vehicles in a "train" to maximize cover, since vehicles didn't have armor saves.

Where it potentially gets silly is Battlewagons doing the tokyo drift, since they're such narrow stretch limos, and were historically AV 14/12/10.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Back in 5th edition, the rules for vehicles were "vehicles move forwards, backwards, or pivot on the spot." You could do the "side to side" moves with Rhinos but in practice, you wanted to keep your vehicles in a "train" to maximize cover, since vehicles didn't have armor saves.

Where it potentially gets silly is Battlewagons doing the tokyo drift, since they're such narrow stretch limos, and were historically AV 14/12/10.

Or very silly with stuff like you see in forge world... yep, I see the idea.