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Ok so I hope this is the right place for this, I think it works.

Anyways, I'm building my army and want to make them with some fluff that fits in. I'm thinking a pirate faction that is obviously into torture and the like. So I wanted to ask the infinitely more knowledgeable minds here if this works with the fluff and how I can really start working on it.

So here are the big questions, but I certainly could have missed some, feel free to let me know.

How do kabals, covens, and cults work together? Do they tend to have the same names?

What options would fit for where they live? I'm thinking more open space, but I don't know.

.... Ya that's all I got... I don't know much about the fluff sadly...

Kabals are distinct entities from covens and cults. Kabals will make deals with the latte two in order to get specialized services.

How do kabals, covens, and cults work together? Do they tend to have the same names?

-loyalty doesn't mean much to Dark Eldar and gangs are willing to offer their services to whoever will give them the best source of pain, so if an archon is going on a raid he may ask a reaver gang, scourge mercenaries or even a whole wych cult to join his kabal for it and if it goes well they may cooperate often after. Powerful Archon will likely at least have an agreement with cults and covens for cooperation.

What options would fit for where they live? I'm thinking more open space, but I don't know.
-Dark Eldar already have a strong pirate theme so you can't really go wrong here. Archon's are your dread lords and the raiders are his fleet, kabalites or wyches are his crew

Ok, so beyond recruiting covens and cults for specific raids; would a kabal have covens or cults inside of it? Or maybe as begrudging allies in the archon's pirate crew?

Genesaika wrote:
Ok, so beyond recruiting covens and cults for specific raids; would a kabal have covens or cults inside of it? Or maybe as begrudging allies in the archon's pirate crew?

No. A cult maybe, but not a coven. The Haemonculi are too proud and powerful to be bound to the service of some little Archon. Archons normally pay the Haemonculi to have them join their Kabal on a raid.
That said, a very wealthy and powerful Kabal will often sponsor a certain Coven, effectively establishing a more permanent alliance between the two. You could also think of other reasons a specific Kabal and Coven are closely linked together. Perhaps they have been working together regularly since millennia, establishing a level of trust (as far as that goes for Dark Eldar) between the two? Perhaps the leaders of the two organisations have family ties or owe each other a debt? Lots of possibilities.

Ostensibly they're separate organisations, but the Dark City is vast, and far stranger things have happened.

Although the Haemonculi hold a phenomenal amount of power in Commorragh, you could have your Archon have a 'pet' haemonculus who he's managed to trick/blackmail into working within his Kabal. Perhaps this Haemi lost out to a rival Coven, and as an insult was sold to your Archon to do with as they pleased.

You could also have a Wych Cult within the Kabal if you like. Wych Cults are based around the Arenas, and organisations of Gladiators who again hold a lot of power in Commorragh. If your Archon has something over the Succubus of a Wych Cult, then he could press-gang them into service as begrudging allies.

Another option is to have your Wych Cult as relatively new, and the Kabal is a 'sponsor' of sorts, providing them with resources and political backing against their more established rivals. In exchange, the Wych Cult provides additional muscle for raids.

You seem to have got the tone of it right though they'd only ever be 'begrudging allies'. Really, even an Archon's own Kabal is only ever 'begrudging allies'. They basically do what an Archon says because it benefits them to stay within a Kabal (protection, prestige and access to raids), and it's too difficult to assassinate them because when it's possible to come back from the dead you've got to be absolutely certain that they'll be 100% dead when you kill them.

If you need a hand rationalising and understanding the backstabbyness (it can seem a little ridiculous to begin with. Why don't they just work together), it's basically that the Dark Eldar utterly despise weakness of any form. If you're an Archon and you can't prevent your underlings from assassinating you, then you probably weren't good enough to lead in the first place. It's as close as 40k gets to a meritocracy!

Kabals, covens, and wych cults together provide the necessary services for life in the Dark City:

Covens are insurance and medical services. They provide for the regeneration of dead or injured Dark Eldar in return for Kabals providing them the necessary resources for the covens' experiments. In the Haemonculus Covens supplement, it is suggested that the Covens could theoretically take over and rule Commorragh if they wanted to since they control the regeneration services, but the Haemonculi realized they had no interest in ruling and did not have the talent or charisma to do so well so they leave ruling to the Kabals in order to have more time for their experiments.

Wych Cults provide the bread and circus. Their entertainment simultaneously provides the pain the Dark Eldar need to feed off of in order to stave off the Thirst. Some of the Kabals and Wych Cults exist in a sort of patronage or long term alliance relationship. While Wych Cults do sometimes launch raids of their own, they rely on a steady supply of fodder from Kabal raids in order to ensure the show never ends in their arenas.

Kabals provide security and manufacturing services. They protect their individual members from outside threats, control the factories staffed with slave labor, and act like organized crime.

It seems that the wych cults would be a bit harder to fit into my theme. I just don't see a gladiatorial arena among a brigade of pirates. Not that they wouldn't like the entertainment, just the space requirements seem too much.

Haemonculus seem to be intellectual individuals, would a new coven take the opportunity to work with a kabal for easy access to ... Erm, "subjects"? The archon would be content with it since he seems to have a haemonculus pet which would give him prestige and the haemonculus would be willing because it builds his strength and numbers without too much risk.

Maybe another option would be that they are just allies of convenience? Say the archon offers a means for the haemonculus to get new test subjects and a bit of defense. The haemonculus would offer ... Well something, I'm just not entirely sure what the archon might see valuable enough.

Which would be more realistic for the dark eldar, a brigade of ships traveling around between "ports" or a large mothership style vessel doing the same? I'm imagining a group of pirates going around raiding and pillaging, then coming to different bases to trade any slaves they might be done with... Or I guess wares too. Am I off the mark with that?

Genesaika wrote:
It seems that the wych cults would be a bit harder to fit into my theme. I just don't see a gladiatorial arena among a brigade of pirates. Not that they wouldn't like the entertainment, just the space requirements seem too much.

Haemonculus seem to be intellectual individuals, would a new coven take the opportunity to work with a kabal for easy access to ... Erm, "subjects"? The archon would be content with it since he seems to have a haemonculus pet which would give him prestige and the haemonculus would be willing because it builds his strength and numbers without too much risk.

Maybe another option would be that they are just allies of convenience? Say the archon offers a means for the haemonculus to get new test subjects and a bit of defense. The haemonculus would offer ... Well something, I'm just not entirely sure what the archon might see valuable enough.

Which would be more realistic for the dark eldar, a brigade of ships traveling around between "ports" or a large mothership style vessel doing the same? I'm imagining a group of pirates going around raiding and pillaging, then coming to different bases to trade any slaves they might be done with... Or I guess wares too. Am I off the mark with that?

If there's a Haemi who's attached himself to a Kabal he'd have to be pretty low ranking. It's a bit of a desperate move for a Haemi to work within a Kabal, although if all you want is a standing arrangement between a Kabal and a Coven then that's pretty commonplace.

Really, the Haemonculi are the real power in Commorragh. It's through their cloning technologies that the Dark Eldar have solved their population problem. The vast majority of Dark Eldar are vat-born. The Haemis are also the keepers of the technology by which Dark Eldar can return from the dead. Powerful Dark Eldar will have contracts with a Coven for regeneration should they be killed, achieved by leaving a piece of themselves with the Haemis which will be regrown upon their death. That's part of the reason it's not quite so simple to kill an Archon and take their place. You have to make sure that something 'accidentally' happens to their regeneration policy (or policies) after you've killed them.

That's why the Haemis are so proud and view themselves as above the other powers of Commorragh. It's literally by their hand that the place even exists at all. They know that what they have is valuable, so any Kabal that want to work with them is going to have to pay to do so. Saying that, there are exactly the same power struggles within Covens as there are within Kabals, and if a low ranking Haemi can see an opportunity to further themselves by attaching themselves to a Kabal then they'll do that. They might lose standing with other Covens for doing so, but that'll all get turned around when (if) they hit it big and all their rivals have been turned into mindless grotesques

I'd also say that a brigade of smaller ships feels more DEldar than a single big mothership.

That's really interesting to note. I'll have to keep that in mind when I go to build the back story.

Would a kabal and a coven travel in the same brigade? Not necessarily as part of the kabal, but the haemonculus would grow new troops for themselves and the kabal and by traveling together the haemonculus would also have ready access to parts from the raids the go on( would this even be important to a haemonculus?).

This brings up another question for me though. How are these groups formed? Is it a common occurrence? Would a new archon/haemonculus not have that title before forming a new group? Or can there be multiples in their given kabal/coven?

Edit: clearly if a coven traveled with a kabal the archon wouldn't be using that haemonculus to regenerate, too risky being together.

Hmmm, perhaps the easiest way to have what you want is to have your dudes be exiles in realspace. Most Kabals are within the Dark City, but some are driven out by their rivals, surviving a bit like Corsairs reaving around realspace. That sounds more like what you're describing with the groups travelling around together, rather than with fixed power bases.

That sort of hardship would also enforce a bit of a closer relationship between the Haemis and your Kabal. Life outside of the webway is hard for Dark Eldar. The webway protects them slightly from Slaanesh's drain on their souls, so they have to work extra hard to replenish them through pain.

The other option would be for your guys to be a raiding fleet within Commorragh. The Dark City itself is mind-bogglingly huge. Way way bigger than a star system, and almost completely inhabited. There's space within that for a sort of nomadic Kabal that travels from region to region, stealing and dealing with whoever's in the locality at the time. If your Haemi is perhaps on the Wanted list of some powerful enemies for some reason, they could be hiding out with your nomadic Kabal (whether the Kabal knows about this or not is up to you!).

I'm not sure how often new Kabals, Cults and Covens are formed. I don't think there's been any fluff direction on that. My take on it is that there's probably a few very powerful institutions that have remained solid for millennia, such as Vect's Kabal and the Wych Cult of Strife. Beneath that there's probably a roiling mass of 'hopeful' syndicates as deals are struck and tenuous alliances forged. It's in this melee that most people's Kabals and Covens and Cults lie.

Archons tend to be the sole leader of a Kabal, although larger Kabals do have multiple Archons beneath a single leader. Some also have two leaders on equal footing, although you'd probably need a solid reason they don't murder each other. Eldar twins share a special connection with each other, sort of like they're one soul in two separate bodies. That might be cause for joint leadership, although there will always be tensions.

Covens are usually comprised of a few Haemonculi working together, as for them there is safety in numbers somewhat. Saying that, some are powerful enough to go it alone, like Urien Rakarth. Alternatively, desperate Haemis who are down on their luck might have had the rest of their Coven killed by rivals, so may be working alone too.

As for where the line is drawn between 'street gang of Hellions' and 'Kabal' it's probably a matter of arrogance really. Any old gang leader can start parading around calling himself Archon, but the Kabals around them will probably see them as an upstart trying to grab a piece of their territory so will come down hard to make an example. If the street gang can survive that and emerge victorious, then they can probably go on calling themselves a Kabal until the name actually sticks and they gain some legitimacy.

Genesaika wrote:

Edit: clearly if a coven traveled with a kabal the archon wouldn't be using that haemonculus to regenerate, too risky being together.

Now you're thinking like an Archon you can't protect your back if you're haemi's dead too.

Haemis are also useful for other stuff besides personal regeneration. They can provide regeneration for your favoured lieutenants, which is a valuable thing to offer so can ensure some form of loyalty. It could also draw in some talent away from other Kabals that don't have as favourable a contract with a Haemi.

They can also provide cloned recruits directly to your Kabal, bolstering your numbers (albeit with untrained fresh blood). Their experiments too, Wracks and Grotesques, can be a powerful boon both on a realspace raid and when fighting your rivals. Similarly with Wych Cults as well (and Incubi, and Mandrakes, and Scourges, and all the other little factions within the Dark City). If you can secure their services, you can get an edge over your rivals, so all are valuable to an Archon in a way.

I like the sound of both options honestly. If my group was to be inside of Commorragh, how would they come in contact with other races?

Hmmm, they could still lead raids out into realspace. They'd just have no permanent base in Commorragh, returning to their nomadic fleet when they come back from raids.

You could even have the whole fleet small enough to travel through the webway on raids if you like

Alright I've got a lot to think on now, but I'm pretty sure I have all of the info I need. Thank you for all of the help.

No probs! Happy raiding

Commoragh is like Game of Thrones on steroids.

Everyone is someone else's b*tch and everyone has their own schemes and motives and are willing to f*ck, kill or bribe anyone to achieve them.

You can mix your army and justify why everyone's there however you want, just remember no one will be there cause they're "just friends", they'll be there cause they want something or don't have a choice.