Does an invulnerable save count as a 'Saving Throw'?

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**LinkXx**

Hey guys,

as the title says, does an invulnerable save count as a saving throw for the purposes of modifiers? For example, the psychic power 'Psychic Barrier' which reads as follows: "if manifested, select a friendly Astra Militarum unit within 12" of the psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, add 1 to that unit's saving throws."

- Would this allow an invulnerable save of 4 to improve to a 3++?

**yakface**

LinkXx wrote:
Hey guys,

as the title says, does an invulnerable save count as a saving throw for the purposes of modifiers? For example, the psychic power 'Psychic Barrier' which reads as follows: "if manifested, select a friendly Astra Militarum unit within 12" of the psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, add 1 to that unit's saving throws."

- Would this allow an invulnerable save of 4 to improve to a 3++?

Yes. A 'saving throw' is the roll you make. With that saving throw (roll) you can choose to either utilize your Save characteristic, or an Invulnerable save. So when you add +1 to a saving throw, you're adding +1 to the roll, regardless of whether that roll is being made against your Save characteristic or Invulnerable save.

Plus, the only modifiers an Invulnerable save ignores are those caused by the AP of a weapon.

Personally I think GW should FAQ this otherwise, but for the time being, it absolutely works RAW.

**LinkXx**

awesome. Thank you for the quick reply, yakface!

**Tsol**

As the others have said, it does imply invulnerable saves. Though I suspect this will either be reworded to explicity include invulnerable saves (or less likely exclude them). As there are several other special rules and powers which do something similar but make clear by specifically stating invulnerable saves. (See Admech Robots Aegis).

I think this is a case of Rules as Intended as well as written. But a touch bit unclear if unless you double back and reread the core rules saving throw box. Which it does classify armor and invulnerable saves, as saving throws.

**Ratepe**

Sorry for the Necromancy, but this would be relevant. I did not see this question anywhere else.

Would this then, include invulnerable saves?

Blitz Mission stratagem.
DUG-IN DEFENCES
Defender Stratagem
Use this Stratagem immediately after setting up one of your units. Until that unit moves (for any reason) you can add 1 to that unit’s saving throws against all shooting attacks.

Rules in Book for Saving throw:

Spoiler:

**BaconCatBug**

Ratepe wrote:
Sorry for the Necromancy, but this would be relevant. I did not see this question anywhere else.

Then you should have started a new thread. It's much better to make a new thread if the original is too old.

In any case, yes, you can modify Invulnerable saving throws, it's just that Armour Penetration and Cover are explicitly forbidden from doing so. If you have a blanket +x to saving throws (like this stratagem or Slab Shields do), then you can use them on Invulnerable saves. Page 181, Invulnerable saves.

**reds8n**

If a thread is indeed this old, it's generally best to start a new one -- avoids old arguments being dredged up or might be lacking facts that came after the initial post.

You can always throw a link in to the old thread if needs be.

No real harm done though this time but if people could bear this in mind in the future.

Ta.