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Is it just me or does this seem really unreliable with everyone hitting on 4's?

You are probly going to do around 3-9 wounds on most tanks if lucky, then the guys are out in the open for a turn of shooting.

Does anyone have a way of guarantee popping a tank in 8th?

McCraggen wrote:
Is it just me or does this seem really unreliable with everyone hitting on 4's?

You are probly going to do around 3-9 wounds on most tanks if lucky, then the guys are out in the open for a turn of shooting.

Does anyone have a way of guarantee popping a tank in 8th?

Stormravens. Vendettas if you wanna go forge world.

8th by design has made it hard to impossible to 1 shot vehicles anymore. In return you have degrading stats.

Long Fangs might have a better time of it since they naturally re-roll 1's.

Melta on the whole is utter trash when compared to Lascannons or even Plasma.

Shadowsword. Maybe.

Nothing really pops a vehicle. a lascannon does .26 of a wound on a rhino. (Hitting on 3's)

You reaaaalllyy need to commit if you want to do it.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Shadowsword. Maybe.

Nothing really pops a vehicle. a lascannon does .26 of a wound on a rhino. (Hitting on 3's)

You reaaaalllyy need to commit if you want to do it.

3 Leman Russes and a ton of guardsmen vs a shining spears list with a wraithknight.

All 3 tanks gone by the top of turn 3.

<shakes head> I don't see where everyone is saying vehicles are hard to kill....

Well we dont all have 20 lascanon lists lol

General Hobbs wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Shadowsword. Maybe.

Nothing really pops a vehicle. a lascannon does .26 of a wound on a rhino. (Hitting on 3's)

You reaaaalllyy need to commit if you want to do it.

3 Leman Russes and a ton of guardsmen vs a shining spears list with a wraithknight.

All 3 tanks gone by the top of turn 3.

<shakes head> I don't see where everyone is saying vehicles are hard to kill....

I wouldnt depend on leman russes for anti-vehicle. (Weird I know)

When I was running 2 leman russes I also had the shadowsword. And punisher cannons would make short work of bikes.

Im just struggling with dealing with guard armies, with pask giving orders to tanks and hitting on 2's and stuff like that the sheer amount of firepower that heads my way sinks me.

McCraggen wrote:
Im just struggling with dealing with guard armies, with pask giving orders to tanks and hitting on 2's and stuff like that the sheer amount of firepower that heads my way sinks me.

Yeah it can be challenging. Most guard lack mobility and BS.

Get into cc with their tanks. Use LoS and cover. surround units so they can't fall back and let you get shot.

Guard stink vs fliers most of the time. One game the only way I could down them is with heavy flamers.

I haven't had much experience with popping tanks in 8th yet, as my local meta doesn't make much use of Vehicles and im the only Guard player around...

A combination of units I field regularly in my Space Marines army, is ten Hellblasters and Guilliman walking up the board. An example, turn one, blast 17 tacticals with chainswords off the board from a squad of 20, losing two to Overheating rolls.

Turn two, 8 of them remaining is more than enough pop a Predator from full wounds to 0.

Excessive? Probably. Expensive points wise? Definetly. The whole set up costs 740 points. But it can murder vehicles and hoards while staying relatively mobile and moving to secure objectives.

SW have units of long fangs that can be equipped with 5 lascannons for 215 points in total.

The stormwolf and the stormfang gunship with max upgrades are around 350 points but they have 2 lascannons, 4 multi meltas and 2/3 S8 AP-4 D6 shots.

SW can also field a unit of 10 wolf guards with 10 combi meltas, but they can't be in range turn 1.

I also play orks and drukhari, none of their units can (alone) pop a tank with T7 or higher in a single turn of shooting. Drukhari can actually destroy a tank quite reliably thanks to their lances but you have to use 2-3 units at least, maybe a single ravager or squad of scourges but you have to be lucky .

McCraggen wrote:

Does anyone have a way of guarantee popping a tank in 8th?

Not easily and this is quite deliberate. Vehicles were too fragile in previous editions but have become both tougher and more expensive in 8th.

Basically you should not be able to destroy a 200 point tank in a single round of shooting with a similarly costed unit. GW have balanced it so that you need to usually dedicate 2-3 units worth of firepower if you want to kill something in 1 turn. Of course there are exceptions like Wraithknights and Shadowswords but then it is reasonable to expect a 600 point Lord of War to swat a vehicle on third its size as if it was a fly.

The best solution I have found in my (limited) experience of 8th is 2-3 squads with lascannons and patience. 4 MMs will do 6 wounds on average to a T7 vehicle or 3.75 to a Land Raider on the turn they emerge from a Pod. If you put them in a Pod, keep them back a turn or 2 and use them to deliver a killing blow to a damaged vehicle rather than expecting them to delete it in 1 turn the way they could in 7th. If you need more damage than this then you have to look at units like Long Fangs that to reroll 1s when focussing on a single target or a character who can supply rerolls.

I dunno, I had a Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns pop a Hellhound in one turn. Being in half range helps a bunch.

General Hobbs wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Shadowsword. Maybe.

Nothing really pops a vehicle. a lascannon does .26 of a wound on a rhino. (Hitting on 3's)

You reaaaalllyy need to commit if you want to do it.

3 Leman Russes and a ton of guardsmen vs a shining spears list with a wraithknight.

All 3 tanks gone by the top of turn 3.

<shakes head> I don't see where everyone is saying vehicles are hard to kill....

I would hope things are dying by turn 3

Sim-Life wrote:
I dunno, I had a Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns pop a Hellhound in one turn. Being in half range helps a bunch.

It can be done but that sounds like luck was on your side. At half range, the average damage against a T7 vehicle from 4 BS3+ meltas is 8 wounds so you would need to roll a bit above average to get a 1 turn kill.

Also Meltas cannot Deep Strike within half range due to the 9" restriction. You can gamble on an advance but then you are at -1 to hit. You can use Multi meltas but they are then at -1 to hit or you can use a transport to bring them to the target which then runs the risk of the enemy trying to stop them.

Basically, there are no easy, automatic solutions. You either need luck (as above), tactical skill (using something other than DS) or multiple rounds of shooting.

My 20 charging Berzerkers were taking down one tank a turn, mostly due to the Power Fist on the champ. The Chainsword + Chainaxe attacks did like up to three damage every time they fought. Power Fist on the champ is just gross.

HOWEVER, I was casting Prescience on them and had a lord nearby for rerolling 1s. Sooooo yeah.

 andysonic1 wrote:
HOWEVER, I was casting Prescience on them and had a lord nearby for rerolling 1s. Sooooo yeah.

So 3 units were contributing (albeit indirectly) to the damage output. That sounds reasonable.

 Karhedron wrote:

Sim-Life wrote:
I dunno, I had a Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns pop a Hellhound in one turn. Being in half range helps a bunch.

It can be done but that sounds like luck was on your side. At half range, the average damage against a T7 vehicle from 4 BS3+ meltas is 8 wounds so you would need to roll a bit above average to get a 1 turn kill.

Also Meltas cannot Deep Strike within half range due to the 9" restriction. You can gamble on an advance but then you are at -1 to hit. You can use Multi meltas but they are then at -1 to hit or you can use a transport to bring them to the target which then runs the risk of the enemy trying to stop them.

Basically, there are no easy, automatic solutions. You either need luck (as above), tactical skill (using something other than DS) or multiple rounds of shooting.

You can't advance after a deepstrike. It happens at the end of movement, so there is never an opportunity to advance. Combined with Plasma being grossly underpriced means Meltaguns are worse than useless in 8th.

If you're hell bent on using melta on tanks after deep strike, look into chaos terminators, and a chaos sorcerer in terminator armor. Drop in, warp time, move them up, blammo.

You'll hit with 2, wound a T7 vehicle with 1.34 of those and rolling 2 dice (keeping the best - 2k1! Legend of the Five Rings, 40k style!) ~ 5.36 wounds? Won't kill a Predator, but will severely hinder its performance.

Now, 4 meltaguns are another history!
hit 3, wounds the same T7 thingie at 2 wounds, rolling only the normal dice... 6 wounds, more or less. Also - cheaper!

Valkyries can get your meltas in position

 Bobthehero wrote:
Valkyries can get your meltas in position

Two SWS in a valkarie. Fly up. Drop them off. Move up to 3" away. 6 meltas aho.

Probably not to worst thing. Run a vendetta instead to get that extra tank killiness.

What's the capacity of Vendettas?

 Bobthehero wrote:
What's the capacity of Vendettas?

12. It's basically a direct upgrade on a Valkyrie.

I personally have a policy of never using flyers because I don't feel they are fair, and the Valkyrie family being able to move and allow a disembark and then have the unit move fully AS WELL is extremely unfair and hopefully will be changed in the codex, and if it isn't, well I can just decline to play against flyers.

Welp, a good part of my Scion battalion is airborne assault, I going to need a few Valks and Vendettas

 Bobthehero wrote:
Welp, a good part of my Scion battalion is airborne assault, I going to need a few Valks and Vendettas

Vultures are decent too. Though often disappointing. For another decent flier Ill be running a thunderbolt. BS3 and 15 wounds.

Run an elysian officer of the fleet. Deepstrike him in. Let your valk/vend to reroll 1's to hit.

If points allow it.

25 pts. Its worth it!

Yeah, I guess, tho they don't really fit with an all Stormtrooper army list, being Navy high command, wouldn't make a lost of sense having them run around a special operation and whatnot.

As for other flyers, I dunno, I really need the Valk/Vend grav chute, and unless the codex comes up with something similar to the 6th ed grav chute commando WL (reroll the reserve roll/scatter 1d6) and make it so you can drop closer to your target, I will have to use it to get my meltas/flamers/hotshots where they need to be.

Drop Pods are expensive and useless. Forget them. Five company veterans with JP, combi plasmaguns, stormshields and a saptain with the same gear. You deepstrike, the plasmagun has 24" range, and its rapid fire 1. Which means 12 shots at 9". You supercharge the plasma, S8, AP-3, W2. Rerolling 1s with the captain. You can do 12 hits, which are 24 wounds, i usually manage 8-10 hits, which is enough to kill a tank, or seriously cripple it. You can also add an apothecary or priest with JP to revive dead models which have been killed by enemy fire, or blown up by supercharged plasma, which is very unlikely when rerolling 1s. And if the enemy decides to charge them he faces 20(24) shots of overwatch hitting on 6s, because the -1 for firing both weapons does not count. Again rerolling 1s.

Of course you can give them Combi meltas, but i like (overcharged) plasmaguns better. They have 24" range and 2 shots at 12". Damage is fixed, not random. Combi plasmaguns are better against infantry, you can fire four shots for each gun at 12".

McCraggen wrote:
Is it just me or does this seem really unreliable with everyone hitting on 4's?

You are probly going to do around 3-9 wounds on most tanks if lucky, then the guys are out in the open for a turn of shooting.

Does anyone have a way of guarantee popping a tank in 8th?

Triple Admech Onagers with neutron lasers, camped next to Cawl, maybe. Still not a certainty though, and a lot of points to kill a single vehicle.

Titan weapons perhaps..