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If you've read the lore long enough, you may know that the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors were bitter rivals even before the Heresy. But which of the two do you like better in your opinion 30k,40k or other wise? I personally like both

Iron Warriors are way cooler in my opinion. Imperial Fists are alright for Loyalists, but IW are much more interesting.

Perturabo's first memories were becoming conscious while climbing a cliff, and realizing he either had to keep climbing or die! Probably a bit harsher than some other Primarchs' "Superman crash land on planet and get adopted" stories.

Perturabo also has a weird and unique connection to the Eye of Terror in that he has always been constantly aware of its presence.

I like both but i prefer the banana marines.

I like them both. My two favourites of the original 18 legions.

I prefer Iron Warriors. The likes of Storm of Iron and Siege of Castellax are well written (and I can't think of a single well written Imperial Fist book). Perturabo - I feel - is one of the Primarchs who was pretty much damned as soon as he landed on the planet he did (He can always see or feel the Eye of Terror watching him, no one else can which would have had everyone else treat him like a paranoid schizophrenic so he becomes increasingly more distant, tight lipped and cold as he realizes this.)

 ph34r wrote:
Iron Warriors are way cooler in my opinion. Imperial Fists are alright for Loyalists, but IW are much more interesting.

Perturabo's first memories were becoming conscious while climbing a cliff, and realizing he either had to keep climbing or die! Probably a bit harsher than some other Primarchs' "Superman crash land on planet and get adopted" stories.

Perturabo also has a weird and unique connection to the Eye of Terror in that he has always been constantly aware of its presence.

There were other Primarchs that got screwed over though. Kurze and Angron arguably got it even worse (notably, most Primarchs that had terrible childhoods wound up becoming traitors).

The Iron Warriors and the Imp Fists are both pretty great imo, and their rivalry is one of the greats. Iron Warriors are the "practical" Chaos Marines who actually have methods that make sense, and got screwed over enough during the Great Crusade that they're somewhat sympathetic, and Imperial Fists are actually closer to the everyman loyalist marines than the Ultramarines are now that the Ultramarines have been made too perfect. Plus the IF get major cool points for being the main defenders of the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy.

 fallinq wrote:

There were other Primarchs that got screwed over though. Kurze and Angron arguably got it even worse (notably, most Primarchs that had terrible childhoods wound up becoming traitors).

Angron got the really short end of the stick, true, and Curze got horrible visions but Perturabo didn't have a bad life other than being able to see a weird anomaly in the sky. On the other hand the Lion had a pretty horrible start. Arguably Leman Russ if you count losing most of his first 'family' (the wolves). Ferrus Manus had to fight a giant worm thing pretty early on and stayed away from people. That was by choice but then again considering his circumstances it's kinda understandable that he'd be kinda scarred.

Personally I probably prefer the Iron Warriors but then half the time Imperial Fists are there as fodder so it's hard to get attached. The whole stubbornness thing is kind of dealing though.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 fallinq wrote:

There were other Primarchs that got screwed over though. Kurze and Angron arguably got it even worse (notably, most Primarchs that had terrible childhoods wound up becoming traitors).

Angron got the really short end of the stick, true, and Curze got horrible visions but Perturabo didn't have a bad life other than being able to see a weird anomaly in the sky. On the other hand the Lion had a pretty horrible start. Arguably Leman Russ if you count losing most of his first 'family' (the wolves). Ferrus Manus had to fight a giant worm thing pretty early on and stayed away from people. That was by choice but then again considering his circumstances it's kinda understandable that he'd be kinda scarred.

Personally I probably prefer the Iron Warriors but then half the time Imperial Fists are there as fodder so it's hard to get attached. The whole stubbornness thing is kind of dealing though.

Lion only really had it rough for 10 years while he was Tarzan of the Chaos jungle. After that he got adopted by The Order and had friends and a support system.

I guess Perturabo didn't have it that bad growing up in comparison to other Primarchs, but that was kind of my point. Once he became leader of the Iron Warriors he and his legion got stuck with the short end of the stick repeatedly though. Funnily enough, he and Dorn both have something in common in that they both got stuck playing second fiddle. Dorn to Horus and later to Guilliman, and Perturabo to Dorn himself.

The big difference is that Dorn was able to accept this and Perturabo wasn't. Their legions reflect this, which I think is why they make such good adversaries.

 fallinq wrote:

Lion only really had it rough for 10 years while he was Tarzan of the Chaos jungle. After that he got adopted by The Order and had friends and a support system.

I guess Perturabo didn't have it that bad growing up in comparison to other Primarchs, but that was kind of my point. Once he became leader of the Iron Warriors he and his legion got stuck with the short end of the stick repeatedly though. Funnily enough, he and Dorn both have something in common in that they both got stuck playing second fiddle. Dorn to Horus and later to Guilliman, and Perturabo to Dorn himself.

The big difference is that Dorn was able to accept this and Perturabo wasn't. Their legions reflect this, which I think is why they make such good adversaries.

Well yeah but he'd still be fighting Chaos corrupted creatures by his lonesome.

I struggle to have sympathy for him when upon gaining command of his Legion he had it decimated. He didn't get the short end of the stick; his Legion did. They had to put up with him! Though I do dislike the evil-for-the-sake-of-it stuff they add to villains sometimes. Hm, was Peturabo second fiddle to Dorn?

Fair point. They are good opposing forces.

I must admit i much preferred Pert before they turned him into a pernicious evil gakker.

Am i remembering it wrong, or did his story used to be that he was relatively civilised on his planet and a generally nice guy. Then along comes the Emperor who forces him to take command of a legion doing the most horrible, demoralising conflicts in all of the Heresy when all he really wanted to do was be a generally alright guy.

If it was never really that...it should be. It's just better.

 fallinq wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 fallinq wrote:

There were other Primarchs that got screwed over though. Kurze and Angron arguably got it even worse (notably, most Primarchs that had terrible childhoods wound up becoming traitors).

Angron got the really short end of the stick, true, and Curze got horrible visions but Perturabo didn't have a bad life other than being able to see a weird anomaly in the sky. On the other hand the Lion had a pretty horrible start. Arguably Leman Russ if you count losing most of his first 'family' (the wolves). Ferrus Manus had to fight a giant worm thing pretty early on and stayed away from people. That was by choice but then again considering his circumstances it's kinda understandable that he'd be kinda scarred.

Personally I probably prefer the Iron Warriors but then half the time Imperial Fists are there as fodder so it's hard to get attached. The whole stubbornness thing is kind of dealing though.

Lion only really had it rough for 10 years while he was Tarzan of the Chaos jungle. After that he got adopted by The Order and had friends and a support system.

I guess Perturabo didn't have it that bad growing up in comparison to other Primarchs, but that was kind of my point. Once he became leader of the Iron Warriors he and his legion got stuck with the short end of the stick repeatedly though. Funnily enough, he and Dorn both have something in common in that they both got stuck playing second fiddle. Dorn to Horus and later to Guilliman, and Perturabo to Dorn himself.

The big difference is that Dorn was able to accept this and Perturabo wasn't. Their legions reflect this, which I think is why they make such good adversaries.

I don't know, Perturabo didn't have much in the way of external threats to his well being, but he did have an internal one to fight that being the seeing/feeling the gaze of the Eye of Terror upon him all the time and no way to escape it. This would have been perceived as a visual hallucination to everyone around him which would also lead to the consensus that he was suffering delusions of persecution. In short, everyone around him would have thought him to be a schizophrenic if they had been able to find out what he was seeing/feeling. And the thing about untreated schizophrenics, they can become quite violent (and sometimes, even when treated):



Perturabo, when he learned that no one else could see what he saw, decided to keep to himself to protect himself. While that may have helped him survive and become as powerful as he did become on Olympia, I feel that it would become his ultimate undoing.

A single choice he made as a child destroyed his humanity. I am not surprised that he became the monster he did.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I must admit i much preferred Pert before they turned him into a pernicious evil gakker.

I'm struggling to remember. I think he was always proud and was kind of bitter but that may have been due to the meat grinder and lack of recognition thing. I don't recall him ever being nice but there's a different between that and joining your Legion and promptly getting them to kill a tenth of themselves because their history wasn't good enough. Though to be fair I found that and the crippling-that-Iron-Warrior because he's fighting Polux not Sigismund to be out of character. It's almost like they took the Iron Hands brutality in 40k, gave it to the Iron Warriors and turned it up.

King Pariah wrote:I don't know, Perturabo didn't have much in the way of external threats to his well being, but he did have an internal one to fight that being the seeing/feeling the gaze of the Eye of Terror upon him all the time and no way to escape it.

What did being able to see it do? Wasn't it just that he could always see it in the sky? Or did it talk to him or something? Doesn't really seem like that big a deal considering he's obviously not human like the others around him until he met the Emperor and the other Primarchs. Plus couldn't he just build a telescope and have people take a looksy through that and confirm that it is real?

I like them both equally. I haven't read any IF novels except for half the Beast Arises Series, if that counts. They were pretty good books but the IF weren't the focus of any, really, except for the first one. On the other hand, Storm of Iron is the best 40k novel I have ever read. The back and forth is very intense and grasping, while Seige of Castellax, ironically, was one of the most boring novels I've had the displeasure of reading. I got to the part after the train chase before I had to give up. The only thing I remember and liked was when that one Iron Warrior came to save a bunch of heretics from orks. That part was amazing, and really made them seem all heroic and powerful.

Anyway, that's all I had to add

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I must admit i much preferred Pert before they turned him into a pernicious evil gakker.

I'm struggling to remember. I think he was always proud and was kind of bitter but that may have been due to the meat grinder and lack of recognition thing. I don't recall him ever being nice but there's a different between that and joining your Legion and promptly getting them to kill a tenth of themselves because their history wasn't good enough. Though to be fair I found that and the crippling-that-Iron-Warrior because he's fighting Polux not Sigismund to be out of character. It's almost like they took the Iron Hands brutality in 40k, gave it to the Iron Warriors and turned it up.

King Pariah wrote:I don't know, Perturabo didn't have much in the way of external threats to his well being, but he did have an internal one to fight that being the seeing/feeling the gaze of the Eye of Terror upon him all the time and no way to escape it.

What did being able to see it do? Wasn't it just that he could always see it in the sky? Or did it talk to him or something? Doesn't really seem like that big a deal considering he's obviously not human like the others around him until he met the Emperor and the other Primarchs. Plus couldn't he just build a telescope and have people take a looksy through that and confirm that it is real?

Perturabo was always a selfish bitter bastard and no it was'nt because he could see the Eye its just the kind of guy he was.

Fluff-wise I have always had a soft spot for the Fists since Ian Watson's "Space Marine". Fluff might have moved on but much of that book is still canon.

Looks-wise I love the Iron Warriors. The brutal steel-and-brass livery with the black and yellow hazard lines looks awesome. The fact that you can now get plenty of plastic Mk3 Marines is really good too. In my head-canon, IWs are one of the less mutated Legions and look good in Iron Armour with just a few horns and 8-pointed stars.

Iron Warriors.

After the drivel that was Praetor of Dorn.

Imperial Fists all the way.

Iron Warriors are cool, but not that cool.

Iron Within. Iron Without.

Iron Warriors are much more interesting because they're one of the more overt examples of Astartes showing humanity, in that their constant attrition warfare was doing a number on their morale. The lack of glory and respect, Perty's breakdown at realising what he'd done and falling into the side of the guy who offered reassurance. Their characters both in the Heresy and post-Heresy (as limited as examples may be) also come across as less 'RAWHGHWFHWGHEGHEW0HJD0A' than a lot of the God-specific Legions and lack the 'dude spies lmao' meme of the Alpha Legion.

That's a hell of a lot more interesting than "they're good at defending stuff and now have a bit of a pain fetish."