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2017/10/04 02:21:11
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
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It shall be a sad day when I must retire my wonderful high elf rough riders, and that day shall be sometime next week. The equine cavalry were given false hope in the index, only to be squatted completely in the codex. Rough riders have recently been a fun and fluffy choice, lost now to the past. Come now all who wish to remember past squatting and speak of your memories of them.
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There is no place for the weakwilled or hesitant. Only by firm action and resolute faith will mankind survive. No sacrifice is too great. No treachery too small. |
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2017/10/04 02:36:48
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Charing Cold One Knight
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I won't stop using mine whatsoever. I have 20 of the old Tallarn ones that willbe hitting the table at every opportunity.
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2017/10/04 02:55:22
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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In arms of an angel.
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Feed the poor war gamer with money. |
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2017/10/04 02:57:22
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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You can still use them with their Index entry along side the new Astra Militarum codex. That's how all older models work that have not been carried forward out of the Index.
It's the same for Lascannon + twin Plasma gun armed Razorbacks as an example.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
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You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed. |
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2017/10/04 03:30:19
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Red__Thirst wrote:You can still use them with their Index entry along side the new Astra Militarum codex. That's how all older models work that have not been carried forward out of the Index. It's the same for Lascannon + twin Plasma gun armed Razorbacks as an example. Take it easy. -Red__Thirst-
Indeed. Or for Rifleman Dreadnoughts with four autocannons. It sucks, but at least you have an option via the index, which is better than previous editions gave!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 03:30:48
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2017/10/04 03:30:50
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
Eastern Fringe
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They live on in codex death, in index.
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The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. |
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2017/10/04 03:42:38
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Meh, personally not sad to see them go. IG riding horses compared to the rest of the setting always tugged at the suspension of disbelief for me.
As others mentioned, you can still play them with the index
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"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 | |
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2017/10/04 04:42:30
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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NurglesR0T wrote:Meh, personally not sad to see them go. IG riding horses compared to the rest of the setting always tugged at the suspension of disbelief for me.
As others mentioned, you can still play them with the index
Suspension of disbelief...................................... ha.................
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Feed the poor war gamer with money. |
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2017/10/04 05:06:54
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Heroic Senior Officer
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NurglesR0T wrote:Meh, personally not sad to see them go. IG riding horses compared to the rest of the setting always tugged at the suspension of disbelief for me.
As others mentioned, you can still play them with the index
That was the part that broke suspension of disbelief for you? Guys on horses?
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'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell |
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2017/10/04 05:58:29
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Gun Mage
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Would it be more believable if they rode wolves?
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2017/10/04 06:25:41
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Motorbikes, clearly.
Like Harley Davidsons, not SM variety!
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warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be. |
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2017/10/04 06:43:48
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Regular Dakkanaut
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NurglesR0T wrote:Meh, personally not sad to see them go. IG riding horses compared to the rest of the setting always tugged at the suspension of disbelief for me.
As others mentioned, you can still play them with the index
It is not a suspension of disbelief for me, especially if you consider that many zones of the Imperium are low tech.
Anyway, there were successful charges of cavalry employing sabres against much bigger regiments of soldiers employing automatic rifles and machine guns in WW2, check the cavalry charge at Izbushenky https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Izbushensky
And many war zones in 40k aren't really that different compared to WW1 and WW2, otherwise the whole tactics of entire regiments (looking at you DKOK) wouldn't be feasible and would become obsolete.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/04 06:47:30
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2017/10/04 06:55:48
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Gun Mage
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BMW motorcycles with machine guns are a real thing that happened. So did paratrooper vespas with bazookas.
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2017/10/04 07:54:32
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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I don't understand why GW would remove options from the Codex, variety is the spice of life! They give with one hand and take with the other sometimes...
Without things like Rough Riders, Ratlings and Ogyns the Imperial Guard are just another boring 'futuristic soldier blokes' model line. (Well maybe not the Vostroyans )
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2017/10/04 08:00:17
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Norn Queen
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Kroem wrote:I don't understand why GW would remove options from the Codex, variety is the spice of life! They give with one hand and take with the other sometimes...
Without things like Rough Riders, Ratlings and Ogyns the Imperial Guard are just another boring 'futuristic soldier blokes' model line. (Well maybe not the Vostroyans )
Because bloat and balance, You trim the fat to make the best possible iteration of the thing your making. Often why movies have "deleted scenes". I am not saying GW is GOOD at trimming the fat. I am just saying it's the reason to do it.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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2017/10/04 08:10:50
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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I understand his point however. Its hard to get my head around the imperial navy wasting space transporting inferior units such as rough riders. You see horses fall out of favor in the real world when motorbikes are available. I can easily see them on lower tech imperial worlds as part of a planetary garrison or even as a band of planetary nobles as a dress division, To each their own. I mean its a setting with zombie skeletal robots, so....
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/10/05 05:13:01
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2017/10/04 08:29:49
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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Lance845 wrote: Kroem wrote:I don't understand why GW would remove options from the Codex, variety is the spice of life! They give with one hand and take with the other sometimes...
Without things like Rough Riders, Ratlings and Ogyns the Imperial Guard are just another boring 'futuristic soldier blokes' model line. (Well maybe not the Vostroyans )
Because bloat and balance, You trim the fat to make the best possible iteration of the thing your making. Often why movies have "deleted scenes". I am not saying GW is GOOD at trimming the fat. I am just saying it's the reason to do it.
The Rough Riders really are the wrong thing to cut. They're a unique choice in the army. If they wanted to cut anything, Conscripts are right there. They're functionally the exact same as a Guardsman. Just a little shoddier offensively and a little cheaper.
And Omnissiah, the horses are what gives you suspension of disbelief? Not jet planes that fly about twice the speed of a running man? Not the steel discipline of a commissar that kills one green panicking guy every now and then, and it 100% stops any riot and no one ever just turns their weapons on him? Not the fact that a single person, just by virtue of becoming famous, is somehow a monster that is many times more resilient to damage and many many times stronger and faster than any hard trained soldier? Or the fact that people drive bikes into hand to hand combat? Or any myriad of other things... it's the horses that does it for you?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 08:36:24
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2017/10/04 08:33:38
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Norn Queen
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Purifier wrote: Lance845 wrote: Kroem wrote:I don't understand why GW would remove options from the Codex, variety is the spice of life! They give with one hand and take with the other sometimes...
Without things like Rough Riders, Ratlings and Ogyns the Imperial Guard are just another boring 'futuristic soldier blokes' model line. (Well maybe not the Vostroyans )
Because bloat and balance, You trim the fat to make the best possible iteration of the thing your making. Often why movies have "deleted scenes". I am not saying GW is GOOD at trimming the fat. I am just saying it's the reason to do it.
The Rough Riders really are the wrong thing to cut. They're a unique choice in the army. If they wanted to cut anything, Conscripts are right there. They're functionally the exact same as a Guardsman. Just a little shoddier offensively and a little cheaper.
I honestly don't know enough about the ig to dig into what units are worth keeping or not. Il leave that to you guys to debate. I was simply saying there is a good reason to cut units and keeping everything does not build a better army.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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2017/10/04 09:20:39
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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I honestly don't know enough about the ig to dig into what units are worth keeping or not. Il leave that to you guys to debate. I was simply saying there is a good reason to cut units and keeping everything does not build a better army.
Yea I got what you were saying. In truth most Guard players probably don't have the models any more so I can see why they choose to cut Rough Riders, but I think it is a sad to loose a unit that so exemplifies the 'Gothic fantasy in space' inspirations of 40k.
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2017/10/04 16:10:03
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Bluebeard wrote: NurglesR0T wrote:Meh, personally not sad to see them go. IG riding horses compared to the rest of the setting always tugged at the suspension of disbelief for me.
As others mentioned, you can still play them with the index
It is not a suspension of disbelief for me, especially if you consider that many zones of the Imperium are low tech.
Anyway, there were successful charges of cavalry employing sabres against much bigger regiments of soldiers employing automatic rifles and machine guns in WW2, check the cavalry charge at Izbushenky https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Izbushensky
And many war zones in 40k aren't really that different compared to WW1 and WW2, otherwise the whole tactics of entire regiments (looking at you DKOK) wouldn't be feasible and would become obsolete.
Avanti Savoia!
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Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! |
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2017/10/04 16:21:35
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Fixture of Dakka
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Red__Thirst wrote:You can still use them with their Index entry along side the new Astra Militarum codex. That's how all older models work that have not been carried forward out of the Index.
It's the same for Lascannon + twin Plasma gun armed Razorbacks as an example.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
This. It has even been stated specifically by GW.
Index is for most of the stuff they've ever made. Codex only contains what they make now. Both are legal using whatever was most recent.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 16:22:24
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2017/10/04 16:21:35
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Table wrote:I understand his point however. Its hard to get my head around the imperial navy wasting space transporting inferior units such as rough riders. You see horses fall out of favor in the real world when motorbikes are available. I can easily see them on lower tech imperial worlds as part of a planetary garrison or even as a band of planetary nobles as a dress division, To each their own. I mean its a setting with zombie skeletal robots, so....
It never had to be horses, just something for the Guardsmen to ride - Tallarn Rough Riders are famous for using the desert-adapted Mukaali, there's some pretty cool Rough Rider conversions out there using Cold Ones, and I once GM'd a game of Only War for a regiment riding giant badger-esque creatures.
It's a shame they're not in the official codex, but at least they're still in the index; I would have put them in there over Crusaders, really, but oh well.
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2017/10/04 16:28:04
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Honestly they should have them ride Space Cold Ones.
And no, I don't mean cans of beer
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2017/10/04 16:43:20
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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+1 for a point very well made, sir. I hadn't ever converted Guardsmen onto horses, but I remember one time when I ran LotR Gondor Knights into a Necron army in late 6th/early 7th. Half died to "difficult terrain is dangerous for cavalry", half died to overwatch/ CC and the Immortals they did kill got back up. IG victory
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/04 16:44:21
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2017/10/04 16:53:06
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Yeah guys, Horses are obsolete when you have bikers.
Swords, axes and hammers in the other hand, are totally viable alongside plasma cannons and laser machineguns.
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Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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2017/10/04 16:55:27
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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I get the argument is kinda silly, I still think motorbikes look cooler than horses. Also they typically smell better.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2017/10/04 16:55:41
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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KRIEG DEATH RIDERS
horses are less obsolete when they're mechanical.
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2017/10/04 17:49:35
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Chicago, IL
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Lance845 wrote: Kroem wrote:I don't understand why GW would remove options from the Codex, variety is the spice of life! They give with one hand and take with the other sometimes...
Without things like Rough Riders, Ratlings and Ogyns the Imperial Guard are just another boring 'futuristic soldier blokes' model line. (Well maybe not the Vostroyans )
Because bloat and balance, You trim the fat to make the best possible iteration of the thing your making. Often why movies have "deleted scenes". I am not saying GW is GOOD at trimming the fat. I am just saying it's the reason to do it.
I don't think it has anything to do with trimming the bloat. The truth is that they don't support the model these rules are for. Why make rule for models you can't directly profit from, or at the very least hide the unit so as to not encourage new players to seek out alternative models.
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To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?" |
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2017/10/04 18:13:17
Subject: Re:A vigil for rough riders
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Point of fact, horses have a purpose (even in modern military conflicts and law enforcement operations). That is, however, neither here nor there.
I was sad to see them removed because it indicates no future rules for them unless we see a new kit released (with subsequent new rules). I'd have gladly built an IG cavalry army had decent models been available. I've even looked at 3rd party options. Taking out a cool option is never awesome.
Here's hoping they are simply being cast aside until a proper re-lease is sorted.
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2017/10/04 18:23:03
Subject: A vigil for rough riders
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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With the removal of the Empire Knights and Bretonnia, one thinks that GW just doesn't like the good guys having good horses.
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Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
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