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Looking for opinions, hopefully some clarification on something that's been bugging me re: CSM legion rules.

So, as per a semi recent AoS post on Warhammer Community (see here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/06/firestorm-matched-play-rules-update/), it's been confirmed that one need not paint an AoS army to match a Free City to use their rules so long as they adhere to their restrictions, etc. Likewise, with loyalist Space Marines, you can pick a first rounding chapter to base a custom chapter on and paint them how you like. All good so far.

CSM, on the other hand, have eight legions and then 'Renegades' for any chapter that turned Chaos post-heresy. Does that mean that, officially, my CSM painted in non Heresy legion colours have to always use the Renegades rules - which have no unique stratagems, and a CQC focussed special rule - rather than picking a fluff/playstyle/whatever rule like loyalists do?

There does seem to be a prescedent set now for "as long as they're not obviously painted something specific already, then you can pick whatever special rules you want", but with CSM having an option for "Other" already, does that just flat rule that out? It seems like that's the case, but it seems really punishing and restrictive for homebrew Chaos chapters considering Loyalists get a free pick. Heck, literally everything else gets the free pick from Astra Militarum regiments to AoS Kharadron Skyports.

It just seems odd that all modern chapters would suddenly be fast combat troops even if they were a shooty chapter or a stealthy chapter - wouldnt Imperial Fists successor traitors behave more like Iron Warriors (who have the same legion rules as IF chapter tactics)?

What do you think? Would you allow someone to pick their own Legion rules (as long as it was on the army list ahead of time)? What about in a tournament setting? What do you think the official GW stance on this is? My gut is telling me the existence of Renegades means you're forced to use those rules if you want to get creative, but if just seems really weird that CSM seem to be the only faction across both games that force you (I mean obviously it doesn't force you, but Alpha Legions -1 to hit would benefit a shooty CSM chapter a lot more than being able to advance and charge) to play a custom scheme a certain way.

Thanks in advance for your input guys!

Paint isn't rules. You can paint them Polkadot green and pink and use whatever rules you want. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar, plain and simple.

Army painted as Ultramarines but feel like using Iron Hand's rules? Just pick Iron Hands as your <Chapter> and you're golden.

The only "issue" is if you want to benefit from named characters or Forge World characters who have a locked in chapter, then you're forced to use the "correct" chapter traits etc.

 Haanz wrote:
Looking for opinions, hopefully some clarification on something that's been bugging me re: CSM legion rules.

So, as per a semi recent AoS post on Warhammer Community (see here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/06/firestorm-matched-play-rules-update/), it's been confirmed that one need not paint an AoS army to match a Free City to use their rules so long as they adhere to their restrictions, etc. Likewise, with loyalist Space Marines, you can pick a first rounding chapter to base a custom chapter on and paint them how you like. All good so far.

CSM, on the other hand, have eight legions and then 'Renegades' for any chapter that turned Chaos post-heresy. Does that mean that, officially, my CSM painted in non Heresy legion colours have to always use the Renegades rules - which have no unique stratagems, and a CQC focussed special rule - rather than picking a fluff/playstyle/whatever rule like loyalists do?

There does seem to be a prescedent set now for "as long as they're not obviously painted something specific already, then you can pick whatever special rules you want", but with CSM having an option for "Other" already, does that just flat rule that out? It seems like that's the case, but it seems really punishing and restrictive for homebrew Chaos chapters considering Loyalists get a free pick. Heck, literally everything else gets the free pick from Astra Militarum regiments to AoS Kharadron Skyports.

It just seems odd that all modern chapters would suddenly be fast combat troops even if they were a shooty chapter or a stealthy chapter - wouldnt Imperial Fists successor traitors behave more like Iron Warriors (who have the same legion rules as IF chapter tactics)?

What do you think? Would you allow someone to pick their own Legion rules (as long as it was on the army list ahead of time)? What about in a tournament setting? What do you think the official GW stance on this is? My gut is telling me the existence of Renegades means you're forced to use those rules if you want to get creative, but if just seems really weird that CSM seem to be the only faction across both games that force you (I mean obviously it doesn't force you, but Alpha Legions -1 to hit would benefit a shooty CSM chapter a lot more than being able to advance and charge) to play a custom scheme a certain way.

Thanks in advance for your input guys!

Anyone who is going to demand you only use a portion of the $50 codex you bought because of the color you painted your models isn't worth playing anyway. As long as you're clear with what set of rules you're using, and the models are clear in what they represent, either verbally or physically, I would never complain. Anyone who does is just being a dink in my opinion.

However there was already an enormous thread about this issue in general with regards to Imperial Guard regiments, and this issue is surprisingly divisive.

Nothing in the rules tells you that you have to paint your models, much less what color to paint them.

This^^^^

Bet opponent £1,000,000 that it's not a rule.

I am with the crowd from above. Paint your models to the color scheme of your choisung, and then pick the Legion that you wish to use for the battle. As for tournements, you will probably have to stick to the said Legion, for the entirety of the tournament in question.

It's also helpful, though still not required, that if you are going to have detachments from more than one legion/chapter/whatever that you paint them differently from one another to make it easier to tell which is which.

Just see the different Vectoriums of the Death Guard. If one of the most "cohesive" Legions in the 41 millenium has that big variety, everything else will have it too. Chaos Legions have been broken in hundreds of warbands, many of them with mixed guys from different legions.

All of those warbands will have their own paint schemes. You can have 300 World Eaters Warbands, all of them obviously with their own paint schemes and symbols.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Nothing in the rules tells you that you have to paint your models, much less what color to paint them.

You maybe confusing it with a TO's regulations for participating in the tourney. As above, there are no rules barring you to play the army as <CHAPTER>, let alone the game, with unpainted army.