Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I apologize in advance for asking a question that has probably already been asked. When measuring whether a target unit is in range of a firing unit that consists of multiple models, does each model have to be in range of its individual weapon, or do you just measure from the closest model?

The rules seem to indicate that you pick a unit to fire with and a unit to target, so measuring from unit to unit is the way to do it. Additionally, when firing from a vehicle, you can measure from any part of the vehicle, not just from the weapon itself.

Adding an additional complication that falls under the same section, do you draw line of sight from individual models, or from the unit? For example, if I have a blob of 30 orks, and half of them are behind LoS blocking terrain, can all of them shoot because the unit has LoS to the target? It seems like you can allocate wounds to models that are out of sight, so the reverse of shooting without LoS would be logical.

Measuring from the model was a 7th edition standard I believe, but doesn't seem like it carried over into 8th? 8th seems like it was intentionally simplified, given the rules for cover and other stuff.

In order to target an enemy unit,
a model from that unit must be within
the Range of the weapon being used (as
listed on its profile) and be visible to the
shooting model. If unsure, stoop down
and get a look from behind the shooting
model to see if any part of the target is
visible. For the purposes of determining
visibility, a model can see through other
models in its own unit.

LoS and range are checked from each model in your unit, but only to one model in the enemy unit.

Where is that?

Edit. nevermind

Copied from the Battle Primer PDF, page 5.

So, if one model in the target unit is within range of one model in in the firing unit, and the rest are out of range of every model in the firing unit (though within LoS), how many casualties are possible?
This is the most important question, for me...

 jeff white wrote:
So, if one model in the target unit is within range of one model in in the firing unit, and the rest are out of range of every model in the firing unit (though within LoS), how many casualties are possible?
This is the most important question, for me...

As in, only one model in the attacking unit is in range to fire, and every other model from both units are out of range? Then the number of shots that one firing model has is the number of possible casualties (depending on damage of the weapon and wounds of the target unit, I'm just assuming 1 wound models). Say it's one model with an assault 3 weapon shooting at a unit of 1 wound models, everything hits, everything wounds, all 3 saves are failed. 3 models die.

You are overthinking it. The shooter determines if he is in range on a model by model basis to anyone in the target unit. Now all models that are in range declare which units their weapons will fire at. Then resolve the hits and wounds. The target takes any saves they have and then removes their casualties from anywhere in the unit.

xxxxxxxx
x


ooooo

All five o's are within range of the one x (and only that model). All shots o's can output can kill ANY models in x's unit (as chosen by the controlling player).

Lets say my block of conscripts is hiding behind a hill except one lone fool is slightly too far up. Seizing on this lone visible target my opponent let’s rip with his 10 bolter wielding marines I was hiding from. After rolling his fist full of dice a few times he scores, let’s say, 10 wounds and asks me to start making saves.

Now the question. Can I declare that my only visible conscript is being allocated the wounds until he fails so that when he fails all further wounds are invalid since they wouldn’t have LoS to shoot?

Gendif wrote:
Lets say my block of conscripts is hiding behind a hill except one lone fool is slightly too far up. Seizing on this lone visible target my opponent let’s rip with his 10 bolter wielding marines I was hiding from. After rolling his fist full of dice a few times he scores, let’s say, 10 wounds and asks me to start making saves.

Now the question. Can I declare that my only visible conscript is being allocated the wounds until he fails so that when he fails all further wounds are invalid since they wouldn’t have LoS to shoot?

No. The unit takes the damage. Of course if your opponent has 2 units shooting, then you could remove the 1 guy sticking his head over the hill when the first unit shoots, and the second unit can't shoot the unit anymore because none are visible,

No. You check LOS and range once. If you have LOS and range to that one guy, you can perfectly validly kill all the guys behind the hill too. Even if you remove Joe Stupid first, all other guns in the firing unit can still fire at Joe's unit after it's been chosen as a target.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
No. You check LOS and range once. If you have LOS and range to that one guy, you can perfectly validly kill all the guys behind the hill too. Even if you remove Joe Stupid first, all other guns in the firing unit can still fire at Joe's unit after it's been chosen as a target.

Ah yes, now that I read it again I see it doesn’t re check LoS. Thanks!

The only thing which changes as models are removed is the cover save - it was elaborated on in an early FAQ.

Target unit: 8 models, 6 of which are in cover (so the unit is not "wholly within" terrain/cover and does not benefit from the +1 save).

Two casualties are sustained. The owning player removes the two models which are not in cover. Now, future saves made by the unit WILL benefit from +1 save due to being in cover. This includes the remaining results of the current attack.

Gendif wrote:
Lets say my block of conscripts is hiding behind a hill except one lone fool is slightly too far up. Seizing on this lone visible target my opponent let’s rip with his 10 bolter wielding marines I was hiding from. After rolling his fist full of dice a few times he scores, let’s say, 10 wounds and asks me to start making saves.

Now the question. Can I declare that my only visible conscript is being allocated the wounds until he fails so that when he fails all further wounds are invalid since they wouldn’t have LoS to shoot?

The wound pool isn't lost but you do get to take individualized save rolls for the models not in cover until they're dead. Once they're dead, remaining wounds are allocated to the rest of the units that are in cover but with +1 to saves.

Alternatively, you can indicate which dice will serve as the rolls for the models not in cover if you were to fast roll all the dice. This method is slightly less in favor of the defender but faster.