Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello

I've been given a Start Collecting Dark Eldar box as a present, and i really like the miniatures, so this is an opportunity to start a new army. I think that with my other army (TS) i want to keep all fluffy and nice and i cannot manage to win with them, i've thought that i could use Dark Eldar as a more "competitive" army.
I've been reading the forum, the index and old codexes to know a little bit about them, but i'm still really lost... Specially in terms of game viability and efficiency. I like many of the models from the DE range, so i don't have problems buying the "good" things. I've read in the forums different opinions and i don't know what to do, some people say that raiders are useless, some others seem to claim they are good enough, and so on with many units... I need a bit of help, please

- So first question would be which units are (or can be) decent at gameplay level, so i can buy the "right" minis and don't waste my money in things i'm not going to use. For example, the "Gangs of Commoragh" box is a really good value for many miniatures, but in the index, base cost for Reavers is 30 pts per model, and in the case of the hellions they are one of the kits that i don't find very appealing, and besides that i have read mixed opinions about them in the game.

- Second question: Would be better to paint the miniatures with a known kabal scheme or make my own colour scheme? And which ones are the great kabals and wych cults and etc? I have been browsing Lexicanum to see the different colour schemes for Dark Eldar, and i like quite a few of them, but i don't know which of them are the ones that will be in the codex as "sub-factions", so they will get army traits. I don't want to paint my models in a colour scheme from a subfaction and then use them as if they were from another subfaction, i don't think that is "right"...

- Third question: I don't know if the wyches (and similar) units are good enough, however i like the idea. The models are okay, but i would like to know if there are some alternatives to be more "crazed warrior women", like for example, the fantasy/sigmar witch elfs, which are nice but a bit too expensive.

And of course if anyone would like to tell me which units should i bought next, or whatever comment about this, it would be great, feel free to do so.

Thanks!

-Which units are decent is...actually, surprisingly a lot of them. Our HQs are undoubtedly our weak point, as we lack any mobile HQ type, any of the basic to-hit buffs except the cc-only one on the succubus, and none of them are particularly good in combat. But since almost everything has similar weapon profiles, almost nothing is actually unusably bad. Even Reavers, which you mention, have fared pretty well for me as elite unit hunters in small units.

The thing is, we don't yet have the codex, which will undoubtedly shake things up. In the index, what's best in show is arguably:

Troop: Kabalite Warriors, 5-man with blaster, blast pistol, and phantasm launcher. Load two of these in a Raider, bob's your uncle. Good number of bodies, good firepower output, good MSU for getting you command points.

Anti-tank: Ravager and Voidraven Bomber undoubtedly. Those two kitted with Darkfire weapons are amazing.

Anti-Elite: Mandrakes. Cheap, flexible, deep strike, annoying to kill, solid damage output.

HQ: Best of the Worst is the archon with a blaster. but man oh man is he not that good. I've really been liking running Brigades with my DE purely so I can minimize HQs.

Fast Unit: Arguably Clawed Fiends with a Beastmaster, arguably Scourges with blasters or lances. The reign of the razorwing was short and is now over, the other choice depends on what you want.

-Question 2: If you're concerned with rules, the answer is always, always, custom paint scheme. Don't tie yourself to a known kabal before you know what the rules are going to be.

-Question 3: Wyches are better than they used to be, but GW still did that thing where they made them a bread-and-butter troop unit that is a hyper specialist that only does a single specific thing and is terrible at everything else. as such, they're worth bringing 1-2 min sized squads JUST to get the No Escape rule into carefully charged enemy horde units, but when it comes to killing stuff....they just don't. Very frustrating, and I still have a chuckle when I read about "most improved unit".

Anything Kabal is pretty good, Covens are so-so and Wych Cults are downright aweful in general.

As the_scotsman said, our HQ's are terrible and taken as a tax that you have to have. I disagree on the Archon with Blaster being the best choice, it's runner up to an Haemonculus with Electrocorrosive Whip. The Haemonculus gives out a nice bubble of +1T and that can effect our transports should you give them the covens keyword whilst the Whip is -2, D2 and always wounds on a 4+ making it one of our best CC weapons. The Succubus and our named characters are all lacking in damage output, it might be fun to take Urien Rakarth once to frustrate your opponent with a near unkillable character but he does absolutely nothing else.

Troops wise Kabalite Warriors are amazing for their points, run them either bare bones for massed poison or 5 man squads with a Blaster, 10 man squads with a Dark Lance and Blaster. Venoms and Raiders are both excellent transport choices for them which is great to give you the flexibility in running them. Don't bother with upgrading the Sybarite, it's almost always a waste of points. Wracks are a passable troops choice, relatively survivable and ok in combat, the Ossefactor is a cool gun it's just a shame you can only take 1 per 5. Wychs are terrible, mediocre damage potential and extremely fragile.

Elites are where DE really shine. Trueborne with 4 Blasters in a Venom are lethal, run them as a min 7 man squad and they can take a pair of Dark Lances as well. Mandrakes are an excellent back field harassment unit, expensive at 19ppm but I find running a 10 man squad to maximise mortal wound output is always worth it. Incubi are an excellent close combat unit, whach marine players weap as you chew through them, again run in units of 8-10 to maximise damage output. The Beastmaster doesn't do too much by himself but gives out flat re-rolls to hit for all Beasts within 6 and said beasts can use his Ld for moral tests (a necessaty on Ld 4 units that are guaranteed to lose multiple models if they ever have to take a moral check), always give him the +2Ld drug. Grotesques aren't too bad but are very much overpriced and don't really have the damage output or survivability they should have. Ignore the Court of the Archon units unless you feel rou really need something to soak up wounds for your Archon, in which case take a Sslyth, they've really suffered for becoming indavidual characters. Bloodbrides are a really unfunny joke.

Scourge are excellent for being farely fast and one of only two units in the army with a Reserve deployment ability. Take them with Dark Lances for anti tank, Blasters for anti-elites and anti-tank support if needed or Spinter Cannons for anti infantry. The Haywire Blaster and Heat Lance are both rubbish and to be ignored. Reavers are overcosted and aren't particularly good at anything now, Hellions could be good but are vastly overcosted and usually die first. Beast Pack units are a mixed bag, the CLawed Fiend is excellent as they're pretty cheap, fairly resiliant and with 5 S5, AP-1, D2 attacks each with a re-roll to hit from the Beastmaster can actually be a threat to a lot of things, I've had a lot of fun funning a 6 man unit. Khymeara are an OK screening unit but don't expect much from them. Razorwing Flocks are terrible since the FAQ doubled their points.

The Ravager is exceptional, 155pts to move and shoot with no penalty with tripple Lance is incredibly lethal and the 5+ invuln makes it surprisingly resiliant. Disintegrators are a bit costly but are an excellent anti elite weapon and with weight of dice can be useful anti-tank as well. Talos is good at killing infantry in combat but we already have plenty of that elswhere, it sucks at killing vehicles and monsters which is what it shoudl be good at but isn't. The Cronos struggles to fill it's role of a support unit and isn't much good at anything else either.

Both of our flyers are excellent, can't go wrong with them, but with the Voidraven I'd recommend the Dark Scythes and skipping the missiles. Both of our Forgeworld models, the Reaper and Tantalus, are excellent as well should you be interested in them.

Just remember we're a glass cannon army, out maneouvre your opponent making use of our range, speed and lack of movement penalties to hit them as hard as you can before they hit you because you can't out last them in a stand up fight.

Many thanks for your detailed replies!

 Imateria wrote:
Anything Kabal is pretty good, Covens are so-so and Wych Cults are downright aweful in general.

Thanks for the explanation. So purchase wise, i should buy more kabalite warriors, scourges, raiders and flyers and any of that should be ok?

the_scotsman wrote:

-Question 2: If you're concerned with rules, the answer is always, always, custom paint scheme. Don't tie yourself to a known kabal before you know what the rules are going to be.

-Question 3: Wyches are better than they used to be, but GW still did that thing where they made them a bread-and-butter troop unit that is a hyper specialist that only does a single specific thing and is terrible at everything else. as such, they're worth bringing 1-2 min sized squads JUST to get the No Escape rule into carefully charged enemy horde units, but when it comes to killing stuff....they just don't. Very frustrating, and I still have a chuckle when I read about "most improved unit".

About the paint scheme, as i said i've been looking at the schemes in Lexicanum and there are some of them that i like (for example this one) and if i paint my miniatures like that, and then that colour scheme becomes one of the "subfactions" with weird army traits, i know myself and i don't want to use the rules of another subfaction if they are painted to be one specific... I don't know if this can be understood, my english is not very good, sorry.

About wyches, so including one or two units would be ok? That's nice because I was asking about the models, more specifically if anyone knows alternative models that could be used as wyches.

So if i want to expand from the SC box to 1000 points, which units would be the better options? I mean both in game terms and in models. About models, more start collecting boxes would be nice, but they have 3 reavers in each, and i don't know if i would use many of them. From your posts i understand that a flyer or two would be safe bets, as well as more vehicles, like venoms, raiders, ravagers, etc... For HQ, a second Archon or an Hemonculus (or both?)

Wyches really aren't in good shape in this edition - I'd cap out at 1 unit of them at the most, although your mileage may vary (and this could all change come Chapter Approved or the Codex, anyways).

For alternative models, you might want to consider Avatar of War's Vestals of Nemesis or Raging Hero's void elf line. I also use some lightly converted Dark Elf Corsairs from Fantasy to represent Bloodbrides (although they're also a pretty bad unit).

 Warpspy wrote:
Many thanks for your detailed replies!

 Imateria wrote:
Anything Kabal is pretty good, Covens are so-so and Wych Cults are downright aweful in general.

Thanks for the explanation. So purchase wise, i should buy more kabalite warriors, scourges, raiders and flyers and any of that should be ok?

the_scotsman wrote:

-Question 2: If you're concerned with rules, the answer is always, always, custom paint scheme. Don't tie yourself to a known kabal before you know what the rules are going to be.

-Question 3: Wyches are better than they used to be, but GW still did that thing where they made them a bread-and-butter troop unit that is a hyper specialist that only does a single specific thing and is terrible at everything else. as such, they're worth bringing 1-2 min sized squads JUST to get the No Escape rule into carefully charged enemy horde units, but when it comes to killing stuff....they just don't. Very frustrating, and I still have a chuckle when I read about "most improved unit".

About the paint scheme, as i said i've been looking at the schemes in Lexicanum and there are some of them that i like (for example this one) and if i paint my miniatures like that, and then that colour scheme becomes one of the "subfactions" with weird army traits, i know myself and i don't want to use the rules of another subfaction if they are painted to be one specific... I don't know if this can be understood, my english is not very good, sorry.

About wyches, so including one or two units would be ok? That's nice because I was asking about the models, more specifically if anyone knows alternative models that could be used as wyches.

So if i want to expand from the SC box to 1000 points, which units would be the better options? I mean both in game terms and in models. About models, more start collecting boxes would be nice, but they have 3 reavers in each, and i don't know if i would use many of them. From your posts i understand that a flyer or two would be safe bets, as well as more vehicles, like venoms, raiders, ravagers, etc... For HQ, a second Archon or an Hemonculus (or both?)

Lords of the Iron Thorn are...fairly likely to be included as one of the named factions? We really won't know what things will look like until we get the codex since Dark Eldar is the only faction that I know of that has not one but three of the <Keyword> things going on. So it's likely to be only a few of each, but beyond Black Heart Kabal its hard to say what we'll see rules for. So I would advise you to modify the Iron Thorn scheme if you like it, just change one color slightly to make it distinct.

IIRC the set comes with Reavers, an Archon, a Raider, and 10x Kabalites yeah? So you've got 1HQ and 2 Troops, if you want to get to a battalion you need 1 more HQ 1 more troop. You could go for a Wrack kit and a Haemonculus kit, plus a Raider to hold them, or you could go for a Succubus kit and some Wyches, plus a Raider to hold them. Either or. Past that, I would definitely say get a Voidraven bomber.

DE are an unforgiving army, you need experience with them and a lot of bad losses to make them perform.

A lot of units are actually decent at least, and they don't even have a codex yet.

My advise is to buy/assemble/paint only the models you like and learn the DE mechanics. Maybe starting with generic stuff like raiders, venoms, ravagers, flyers and kabalites.

Regarding painting you aren't restricted to rules by color scheme. Seen too many ultramarines that are actually white scars to believe that. And if you want to play safe figure out small alteration.

I would simply recommend just picking a color scheme that you like. That way you can have it stand for whatever faction that you choose for it to represent.
As to the choice of models to field, pick the models that look fun to assemble and paint. You can get a good idea of what your army will fight like from the Index: Xenos 1 book. Until there is a proper Codex: Drukhari, that will be your measuring stick. I might recommend, that you stay away from the Coven models, if, you choose to incorporate your Drukhari forces into the Ynead force, down the road. You can use any model in the Drukhari except the Covens.
For your next purchases, I would definitely get a Flyer, both are really good. Reavers are awesome, fast attacks. Along with Scourges.The Drukhari have the fastest units in the game. The key to victory with them, is to use your superior speed to gang up on units, then zoom away before any real damage can be done back to them. If you try to go up one on one, versus any other faction you will lose.
And remember, the longer the battle goes on, the more special rules or buffs you get to apply to your forces each turn. Sometimes, it is better to save a squad from utter destruction by moving away from the enemy, than to stay and fight and get wiped out on your opponents next turn. A fluid battle field is a Drukhari Warlord's best friend.

Straight to the army list. We have a player here with a decent list consisting basically of Trueborn with blaster or splinter cannons mounted in Venoms or Raiders supplemented by Ravangers, nothing else.

Thanks for your replies and advices!

I think i will buy next a new SC box. That way i could have another archon for 2 HQ, a new kabalite squad and a raider. I'm thinking in getting venoms as well. And definetely a flyer next, per your advices. Voidraven bomber is better in rules but is a very big model and much more expensive in money. I think i will buy the Razorwing fighter, unless i can find the voidraven not so expensive.

So a first simple list would be more or less: 2 archons, 3 x 5 kabalites, 3 reavers, 5 trueborn kabalites, 2 x raiders, 1 venom, 1 razorwing fighter. Depending on loadouts it would be 1000 pts. and i would get the +3 CP for a battalion.

So definetely, the "power from pain" rule is cumulative then? In turn 3, the dark eldar would have FNP at 6, re-roll advance and charging dice and adding 1 to hit rolls in fight phase?

That is definitely how it works. And it's excellent to have for an assault oriented DE army. Shooting it doens' tmatter nearly so much, but if you're running Wyches it really helps to be turn 3+.

Thanks!

I think i will try to find good offers to buy more DE this black friday. What do you think i should buy?

I was thinking another SC DE box, a venom or two, a flyer (possibly voidraven if i cannot find the cheaper one) and i don't know if a ravager (it seems to be GW direct only, so maybe i will skip it...)

I have seen the "Gangs of Commoragh" really cheap and it comes with 6 bikes and 10 hellions (i think) its a very good set price wise, however i don't know if i would use all of them... Maybe as a source for conversions, would you recommend it?

Their unit prices are likely about to change a bit. Also, they might get some army goodies (WL traits, stratagems). Chapter Approved will change things.

So I'd suggest get a little of everything. 6 bikes and 10 hellions isn't spamming either unit, so not bad things to get.

If you play for a long time (and the investment to model and paint an army makes that more viable), you should look to have a diverse set of whatever is in your army, irrespective of what's "good" or "trash" right now. That should change many times over the lifespan of your collection.

^what he said.

The points values for our units are likely to change in under a month, then possibly again in another few with the codex. Now mire than ever is the time to have a good variety of stuff you like the looks of.