Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

exactly as the title says.

or can they be included as an ally?

i say no on both counts.

any chance this qualifies for Yak's "The Unofficial Dakka FAQ v2.5"?

thanks for any input.

You beat me to it.

Points for allies (Or better known as: Why I think Armoured Company can use Allies)

Listed in the Witch Hunters Codex and also in the Daemonhunters Codex: IG and its variants (It does list examples, but the are examples, not a complete list) can take Witch Hunters/Daemonhunters as allies. As you previously stated, it does not specifically say Armoured Company, but AC is a variant of IG.

The Kroot list states what armies CANNOT use Kroot Merc allies. Neither IG nor Armoured Compant are listed.

 

Use AC *as* an ally? I see no basis for allowing that. The various Inquisition codices only allow generic guard and marines to be inducted. Armies that can be taken as allies typically list those rules in their codices. I'm thinking of Kroot and Inquisition lists. Well, and harlies if you count them.

Can AC take allies such as Inquisition forces or kroot? This boils down to the permissive versus restrictive debate, so let me answer that with a second question: Do ANY codices specifically allow Inquisition forces or kroot? I haven't memorized all the codices, but I only remember seeing codices (such as Dark Angels) that specifically prohibit allies, not ones that specifically allow them. Assuming that I'm correct on this point, if you say that codices must specifically allow allies, then who gets to take allies? Pretty much nobody.

Let's look at another argument for allowing allies unless specifically disallowed. The Space Marine codex has a disadvantage that can be taken that disallows allies. However, there isn't anywhere in the codex where allies are explicitly allowed (to my knowledge). So, if the rules for allies were restrictive, that disadvantage wouldn't do anything because Space Marines wouldn't be able to take allies anyway.

Let's look at Kroot for a minute to see who can take them. The kroot army list says "The following armies may NOT make use of Kroot Mercenaries: Space Marines, Necrons, Sisters of Battle, Tau, Tyranids." I'd add to that list any codex that specifically says it can't take allies (I can't think of any that don't already fall into the categories already listed.) AC isn't mentioned. Heck, Guard isn't mentioned. (If Guard was prohibited, then I could see an argument for prohibiting Kroot in any variant guard lists.  I'd disallow Kroot in Space Wolves, for instance, since they aren't allowed for Space Marines.) So, AC can take Kroot. You can make a similar argument for allowing Inquisition forces in an armoured company.

my biggest problem with the idea of Kroot allies, they don't have vehicles.

i think anything allied with an AC list would have to be as mobile as the rest

of the list. kind of like a Mech list

I can absolutely respect that from a fluff perspective if that's the way you want to interpret the AC. However, there aren't any rules that require everything in the AC list to be mounted as far as I know. It just so happens that everything in the list *is* mounted.

Of course, I would't be upset if somebody showed me rules to the contrary.

On a fluff note, I'm of the opinion that as long as you can integrate the allies fully into your fluff (and not rely on cop-outs such as "Oh, and they picked up this hitchhiking Inquisitor and his Callidus Assassin while on route to the battle.") then I'm fine with just about any allies. AC with Sisters allies? Sure. With Kroot? If you can come up with something plausable, go ahead. Its when its obvious that you're just trying to min/max your allies that I get a little irked (just a little). If you're going to ream me with a powergamed army, at least let me enjoy the story.

The only comparisions we can draw is from our own planets military history. And non mechanized or motoroized infantry have been attatched to their more mobile comrades. And since the guard seems to draw a lot of parallels to our modern military, I don't see why a non-mech force couldn't be attached (allied) with AC fluff wise.

Rule wise totally different story.

"I can absolutely respect that from a fluff perspective if that's the way you want to interpret the AC. However, there aren't any rules that require everything in the AC list to be mounted as far as I know. "


well to include a techpriest, he has to be mounted in a chimera.

the only "infantry" that the list includes is Armored Fist squads

as fast attack choices. they all have chimeras. nothing in the "core"

AC list is walking.

nothing in the "core" AC list is walking.

You're saying that because everything in the list *is* mounted, then everything in the list *must be* mounted. I submit that this is a logical fallacy.

Let's look at a situation. Suppose I walk into my local GW store and observe that everyone inside is under age 30. By your logic, if everyone *is* under 30, then everyone *must be* under 30, and there apparently is a rule saying that anyone over age 30 is banned. Of course, we know that this is silly.

The Speed Freeks list includes the rule that every unit must have a transport. So, they wouldn't be able to take Kroot unless they could allocate a Battlewagon to them or something. AC has no such rule. It just so happens that (as you stated) nothing in the "core" AC list is walking.

Hmm, I would add something to this, but Sir Crispy hit the points that I would normally make (It's a IG variant list).

As far as the "must be mounted" debate goes, I don't recall seeing anything in the AC rules that dealt with allies at all, only that all of the units in the army list that weren't infiltrating or deep striking (for stormtroopers) had "must purchase a chimera" in their entry. One thing you might be thinking of is the old steel legion rules, where anything in the list must be mounted in a transport (even if one wasn't normally available to it).

Actually it says ST's must be mounted.

Having said that, I don't see anything on the list denoting allies as required to be mounted or such. Running such a list with allies I personally would do so, to follow the spirit of a fast moving list.

"Having said that, I don't see anything on the list denoting allies as required to be mounted or such."


but the original point is can they have(or be) allies at all. i could tolerate walking allies.

i'd love to have an =I= running around using his Psychic Hood out of the sunroof of

his Chimera, but i don't think it's legal.

anybody think this should go in the "The Unofficial Dakka FAQ v2.5"?

I'm not sure there's a question. It seems pretty clear (to me at least) that the AC list falls under "Imperial Guard Variant" which is all DH or WH require, and isn't listed on the "no" list for Kroot.