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If a character arrives from reserves, can I use the Auspex Scan strategem to shoot at them, even if another unit is closer?

No as it says to treat it as a shooting phase and gives no reason to by pass shooting at a character rules.

I don't know. The character rule says you can't choose a character as a target unless it's the closest one. Is playing a stratagem 'choosing a target'?

And how is this different from overwatch, there it also doesn't say specifically you can bypass the shooting at a character rule. So if I have a character at 6 inches from an enemy, and another unit 4 inches from the same enemy, and I declare a charge with my character, can your unit fire overwatch against him? He is not the closest target. And overwatch is: "Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers."

Overwatch saying resolved like a normal shooting attack; it doesn't say to treat it like a shooting phase. Without it saying to treat it as a shooting phase, then you don't get the shooting phase restriction on not shooting characters.

If auspex says to shoot like it's the shooting phase, then you get the shooting phase restriction on characters. if it just says make a shooting attack then you don't.

The special character protection rule only applies in the shooting phase. When a character arrives from reinforcements it's not the shooting phase. When firing overwatch it's also not the shooting phase.

 p5freak wrote:
The special character protection rule only applies in the shooting phase. When a character arrives from reinforcements it's not the shooting phase. When firing overwatch it's also not the shooting phase.

When using Auspex Scan it is explicity stated to be as if it were the Shooting phase.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The special character protection rule only applies in the shooting phase. When a character arrives from reinforcements it's not the shooting phase. When firing overwatch it's also not the shooting phase.

When using Auspex Scan it is explicity stated to be as if it were the Shooting phase.

"As if" is not the same as "is".

A rule that only works in the Shooting Phase, doesn't work unless it is the actual Shooting Phase.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The special character protection rule only applies in the shooting phase. When a character arrives from reinforcements it's not the shooting phase. When firing overwatch it's also not the shooting phase.

When using Auspex Scan it is explicity stated to be as if it were the Shooting phase.

"As if" is not the same as "is".

A rule that only works in the Shooting Phase, doesn't work unless it is the actual Shooting Phase.

If you treat it as if it were the shooting phase, then all shooting phase restrictions apply. Overwatch gets around this by saying shooting attack without saying "as if it were the shooting phase"

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"As if" is not the same as "is".

Yes, "As if" is not the same thing as "is". However, "As if it were" is semantically same to "is".

Is "As if it were" truly different from "As if it is"?

Alternatively you could argue that the rule only applies to choosing a CHARACTER model with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10 as a target, and the stratagem doesn't have you choosing a target as such.

There is no overreaching consensus on the interpretation of this.

Talk with your friends or any TO at events you are attending and follow along.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
There is no overreaching consensus on the interpretation of this.

Talk with your friends or any TO at events you are attending and follow along.

Agreed with this.

If a character AND non-character both arrived from reserve and the non-character happened to be the closest model, then I'd say no, you cannot shoot at the character. If the character arriving was the closest model arriving from reserve, I would rule that you can shoot at it via stratagem. In other words, I would discount the models already on battlefield for the purpose of determining the 'closest model' in this particular case.

From the Custodes FAQ:

Q: How does the Ever Vigilant Stratagem interact with
Characters with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
Can Ever Vigilant allow a unit to target such a Character
who arrives as reinforcements even if they are not the closest
enemy unit?
A: No, unless they shoot weapons that can target
Characters even if they are not the closest enemy unit

Ever Vigilant is a stratagem that pretty much Auspex Scan (it gives a -1 to hit and I'm not sure if Auspex Scan does that). So we are not able to shoot at characters using these stratagems if they are not the closest enemy units. We are treating the unit shooting as being in the shooting phase while resolving the shots.

Yea.... only over watch bypasses the character rule because it is a shooting in the charge phase, hence targeting restrictions don't apply.

Custodes FAQ indeed confirms that stratagems that allow you to shoot units coming from Reinforcements still follow the restrictions of the shooting phase, this includes the character restrictions

Clears it up, in a way that will still cause arguments as it's in a different army's FAQ. Le sigh. Roll on March for the Uber-FAQ fix!

Jacksmiles wrote:
From the Custodes FAQ:

Q: How does the Ever Vigilant Stratagem interact with
Characters with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
Can Ever Vigilant allow a unit to target such a Character
who arrives as reinforcements even if they are not the closest
enemy unit?
A: No, unless they shoot weapons that can target
Characters even if they are not the closest enemy unit

Ever Vigilant is a stratagem that pretty much Auspex Scan (it gives a -1 to hit and I'm not sure if Auspex Scan does that). So we are not able to shoot at characters using these stratagems if they are not the closest enemy units. We are treating the unit shooting as being in the shooting phase while resolving the shots.

Thank you thank you thank you!

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
"As if" is not the same as "is".

Yes, "As if" is not the same thing as "is". However, "As if it were" is semantically same to "is".

Is "As if it were" truly different from "As if it is"?

I would be vary of trying to parse GW rules with anything that requires this level of semantics. GW is bad enough rules writer while staying with common words and grammar. Very doubtful they would use this sort of differences to make rules. Hopefully they won't even try as they wouldn't be competent enough anyway

So, there are some situations where the targeting character can be shot at by stratagems, but the Stratagem itself doesn't allow you to ignore normal targeting rules
Stratagems work like interrupts, or Magic the Gathering "instants " Normal game phasing is essentially paused while the stratagem resolves.

I'll give you an example from a recent game where I was being asked to play under strict tournament conditions by a guy who is a much better player than me,
he is training for No retreat so I had crafted the cheesiest list I could with what I own and was being asked to play ultra-competitively, Im typically a relaxed player who plays by intent.

Its J's first turn, I fail to seize he is playing blood angels , I am playing my Ad Mech , J has a normal-ish movement phase then deep strikes his flanking force of jump pack equipped units into the front of my line ...I've done my best to screen So they are in front of a line of vanguard, exactly 9 inches , this unit has plasma calivers ...
J's plan is to mulch but not wipe out this unit until the end of my turn hiding it from being shot at , its pretty solid .

Absentmindedly he places Dante first, exactly 9 from my unit. I tell J to stop and say I am using a stratagem to fire my unit at Dante ...

Info-slave skull 2CP - Use after an enemy unit arrives on the battlefield as reinforcements within 12" of one of your INFANTRY units.
You can immediately shoot at the enemy as if it were the shooting phase, but you must subtract 1 from all the resulting hit rolls.

No other units have been placed and J's movement phase is technically interrupted by me taking a shooting phase ...
I immediately feel bad ... and ask J if he wants to un-deploy Dante and pop the Melta Assult squad down instead first ...
but J who's asked me to officially try to be "that guy" refuses and says that would cost me at the tournament its worth the lesson please play it out

I only manage to cause 2 wounds to Dante, because he's got an Invuln save killing one of my plasma calivers with the overcharge, but I'd do it again ;-) without hesitation.

The point of this is about the order of operations , Auspex scan / Info Skull etc , interrupts the game and puts you in a single unit shooting-phase.
If other deep striking units are closer you dont get to ignore them and shoot a character its the shooting phase ....
But 100% you can shoot at a character if the deep strike causes it to become the closest target.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The special character protection rule only applies in the shooting phase. When a character arrives from reinforcements it's not the shooting phase. When firing overwatch it's also not the shooting phase.

When using Auspex Scan it is explicity stated to be as if it were the Shooting phase.

"As if" is not the same as "is".

A rule that only works in the Shooting Phase, doesn't work unless it is the actual Shooting Phase.

If you're not applying a rule that's supposed to be applied during the shooting phase, then you're not shooting "as if it were the shooting phase", you're just shooting.