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Hello all. This is my first forum post, and also the first list I'm ever putting together. I just recently inherited what I am told is an ANCIENT Thousand Sons army. And about seven other Bins of various models. There are more than forty tanks of various shapes and sizes, and literally thousands of Tiny Mans. And then, of course, the Thousand Sons get their very own codex around the time that the collection comes into my possession. And they also happen to be the Dark Space Wizard faction, which is thematically right up my alley. So here I go, learning Warhammer 40k.

My new Codex arrived two days ago, and I've been pouring over it with a notebook, trying to knock together a list. But I have some unusual ground rules for this particular listbuilding.

First: No Buying Models (yet)
I need to work with what I have; I don't even know if I will enjoy this game yet, and considering the state of these bins and the stories about the hobby, it's a very slippery slope to committing way to many resources. I'll post a partial inventory at the bottom, but it's safe to assume that any model that's come out in the last decade it' s probably not in the Bins. So please no suggestions that start with 'Buy Magnus'. I know he's a picturesque badass wizard demon god with horned nipples. And maybe someday he will be mine. But not before I've played twenty or so games.

Second: Thousand Sons Theme
I like the passives you can get from running an all Thousand Sons army. I may not have the first idea of what's good in this game, but I know what's good in all games. And magic is generally a very leveragable thing. Magic with a much greater range than it's supposed to have is even better. That said, if I am not quite understanding how themes and divisions and detachments work, by all means help me learn. S'why I'm here, after all.

Third: More Command Points Plz
Once I understood what CP are for, I decided I would want to optimize however many I could get. Rerolls alone are often game saving in the clutch, and the Thousand Sons get some pretty awesome Stratagems to boot. So if I can get more CP by rearranging my army, I want to.

Ok then! Here's what I've got so far. 1000 pt list first.

Professor's K'sons 1000pt List
166 Ahzek Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch
140 Sorcerer in Terminator Armor
w/ Force Stave
w/ CombiBolter
w/ Familiar

212 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x9
w/ Force Stave on Sorc (8)
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol on Sorc (1)
w/ Inferno Bolter x 9 (18)
w/ Icon of Flame (5)
207 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x9
w/ Force Stave on Sorc (8)
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol on Sorc (1)
w/ Inferno Bolter x 9 (18)
95 Pink Horrors x10
w/ Daemonic Icon (15)
w/ Instrument of Chaos (10)

180 Chaos Predator
w/ Predator Autocannon
w/ Lascannon
w/ Lascannon

Ahzek Ahriman on Disc 166pts
Warlord Trait: Otherworldly Prescience
Tzeentch's Firestorm WC 7
Infernal Gaze WC 7
Death Hex WC 8

Sorcerer Terminator 140pts
Helm of the Third Eye
Prismatic Staff
Dark Matter Crystal
Prescience WC 5
Temporal Manipulation WC 6

Aspiring Sorcerers Boxy & Pinchy
Warp Time WC 6

Opening Stratagems
Relics of the Thousand Sons 3CP

Unless I am misinterpreting the rules, that SHOULD be a Battalion, netting me 6 CP to start with. The idea behind the list is to have a rock for every scissors. The Rubrics should be annoyingly resilient enough to hold any objective without a seriously disproportionate dedication of points, and with Warp Time they're deceptively quick. The TermiSorcerer is serving to support the tank and ruin the day of elite assassins that try to take the back line. Ahriman is a very fast, wide threat range assassin for troublesome elites or support units himself, and will be positioned to retreat back out again with Warp Time in situations where he needs to hit and run, The Predator is a Predator; it's there to counter heavy armor from way downtown. The Horrors are a wild card, but I tried to make them sufficiently annoying with their ability to regenerate lost horrors for free if the dice are kind. And there should be a boatload of Mortal Wounds every turn from the 5ish Smites that I can throw out.

Things I'm unsure about:
Can a single model have more than one relic? I loaded up the TermiSorcerer with a bag of tricks, but I don't know if it's actually allowed.
Do the Pink Horrors fulfill the 3rd troop requirement? And if so, do they screw up my Thousand Sons benefits? If not, I will need to restructure a bit with a 3rd Rubric unit or maybe some cultists.

Professor's K'Sons 2000pt List
166 Ahzek Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch
104 Sorcerer (Tanker)
w/ Force Sword
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol
104 Sorcerer (Helbrute)
w/ Force Sword
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol
140 Sorcerer in Terminator Armor
w/ Force Stave
w/ Inferno Combi Bolter
w/ Familiar (+1 1st Psychic Test each phase)

237 Aspiring Sorcerer and Rubric Marinesx9
w/ Force Stave
w/ Warpflame Pistol
w/ Soulreaper Cannon
w/ Warpflamer x2
237 Aspiring Sorcerer and Rubric Marinesx9
w/ Force Stave
w/ Warpflame Pistol
w/ Soulreaper Cannon
w/ Warpflamer x2
237 Aspiring Sorcerer and Rubric Marinesx9
w/ Force Stave
w/ Warpflame Pistol
w/ Soulreaper Cannon
w/ Warpflamer x2
95 Pink Horrors x10
w/ Daemonic Icon
w/ Instrument of Chaos

180 Chaos Predator
w/ AutoCannon
w/ Lascannon
w/ Lascannon
180 Chaos Predator
w/ Autocannon
w/ Lascannon
w/ Lascannon
162 Helbrute
w/ Twin Lascannon
w/ Fist
155 Screamers x5

Warlord Trait: Ahriman Otherworldly Prescience

Spell Lists:
Ahriman - Boon of Mutation, Death Hex, Doombolt
Tanker Sorcerer - Prescience, Temporal Manipulation
Helbrute Sorcer - Diabolic Strength, Infernal Gaze
Termie Sorcerer - Warp Time, Gift of Chaos

This one's a little different. I've not selected relics yet, but I will be very shortly after I see how it plays. The sorcerers are paired to their intended supported units, but of course they can go where they're needed.

Also considering making heavy use of the Webway Deep Strike trick, but I don't really know how to value that yet.



And now, a very rough and incomplete inventory of the inherited collection. Keep in mind that my identification of these are kinda spotty; all the models are super old, and when you Google stuff you generally get the most up to date versions of the models. Anything I'm not quite sure of I'll out a ? next to and if you're interested ping me and I'll send a picture.

Ahriman
Sorcerers x8
Aspiring Sorcerers x3
Terminator Sorcerer
Rubrics x37, with a conversion kit for 8 more
Screamers x5
Cultists x20
Metal Bawkses (rhino chassis, I think?) x30
K'Sons Predator
Land Raiders x6
Drop Pods x9
Thousand Sons Terminators x3
Kitbashed Flamer Rubric Hybrid Things x9
Rainbow Horrors x10
What I am assuming is an unassembled Daemon Prince

Hundreds and Hundreds and Hundreds of Marines in various stages of assembly
Couple dozen Chaos Marines
Chaos Lord
Helbrute
Dreadnoughts. At least 15.

There's also a complete large Eldar army with a couple of, I wanna say, hover tanks? Along with a couple shoeboxes full of orks.

Thanks for TLDRing this far if you made it! I'm really looking forward to digging into this hobby.

Just a note you can't put more than one relic on the same character. You get 1 relic for free by having a TS warlord and you can use a stratagem to bring 1/2 more for 1/3 CP but that all have to go on separate characters and named characters can't take any relics because they already are equipped with one or more. Also your Aspiring Sorcerers can't take Warptime. They can only take powers from the Discipline of Change. You'd have to shuffle your powers around. You can use the Chaos Familiar Stratagem to change the powers but it can only be played at the start of your psychic phase. So if you plan on using it that is when you would be able to change powers and if you're playing Matched Play you can only use the Stratagem once per turn. As to the Pink Horrors they do fulfill the Troops requirement, but they will mess up your detachment and deny you the Legion Trait of the +6" to powers. The trick to learn is to look at the Faction Keywords on the Datasheets. You can include units in a detachment together if they have one or more Faction Keywords in common. So in the case of the Horrors they are legal to include because of the Chaos and Tzeentch KWs. If your detachment isn't made up of only Thousand Sons KW models you will not gain the benefits of the Brotherhood of Psykers and your troops won't get objective secured either.

Thank you! That helps a lot. Ok, take 2 on the 1000 pt list, and giving a lot more thought to the 2000pt list.

166 Ahzek Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch
140 Sorcerer in Terminator Armor
w/ Force Stave (8)
w/ CombiBolter (2)
w/ Familiar (9)

220 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x9
w/ Force Stave on Sorc (8)
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol on Sorc (1)
w/ Inferno Bolter x 8 (16)
w/ Soulreaper Cannon (15)
147 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x6
w/ Force Stave on Sorc (8)
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol on Sorc (1)
w/ Inferno Bolter x 7 (14)
147 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x6
w/ Force Stave on Sorc (8)
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol on Sorc (1)
w/ Inferno Bolter x 7 (14)

180 Chaos Predator
w/ Predator Autocannon
w/ Lascannon
w/ Lascannon


Ahzek Ahriman on Disc 166pts
Warlord Trait: Otherworldly Prescience
Warp Time WC 6
Infernal Gaze WC 7
Death Hex WC 8

Sorcerer Terminator 140pts
Dark Matter Crystal
Prescience WC 5
Temporal Manipulation WC 6

Aspiring Sorcerer Pinchy
Glamour of Tzeentch WC 7

Aspiring Sorcerer Boxy
Weaver of Fates WC 6

Aspiring Sorcerer Axer
Tzeentch’s Firestorm WC 7



I'm going back and forth on the two 7man Rubric squads, or drop one of them, beef up the other to a full 10 with an Icon of Flame, and take a 20man cultist squad. I've got them, but they're unpainted, whereas the rest of the army is resplendent in blue. Plus, Rubrics are WAY more resilient and dangerous. And this squad lines up at 1000pts exactly whereas the cultist one would only be 998pts. Thoughts?

Regarding the 2000pt list, could I do most of it as a Thousand Sons detachment and then include a minor detachment of Demons? Would I still get the benefits? And which CP takes precedence?

1000 points of TS is very tough because they cost so much. Looks solid, but personally I think the 180 points for that predator could be spent better on something else. I'm just not sure what at the moment. Give it a few goes and tweak as needed. I would find a way to get some Scarab Occult Terminators in if possible. In a 1000 point list it would be a stretch, but for your 2000 point list I would find a way to bring at least a 5 man squad.

As for how to get Daemons in your army without breaking the Legion Traits there are a couple ways you could do it. One is to bring a second detachment of Daemons. Doing it this way you would benefit better by also getting the Chaos: Daemons codex as by bring a detachment of nothing but Daemons you will unlock access to their stratagems. Also there may be cheaper HQ options to build your Daemons detachment. If you could say build another battalion detachment you would be able to bring another 3 CP.

The other way of bringing Daemons without breaking your special rules would be through the use of the Daemonic Ritual ability. While not as idea for various reasons any Daemons summoned do not belong to any detachments and as such don't break your rules. In Matched Play you are required to set aside reserve points for units that are added to your army in this way. So in your list building you would allocate a set amount of points for summoning and then deduct from this amount each time you summon a unit. Also keep in mind any of the Stratagems or abilities (such as the Blade of Magnus) that turn enemies into a Chaos Spawn usually require you to use reserve points in Matched Play games as well. In a few cases the rule or Stratagem will tell you they don't have to be deducted from these reserve points.

Not sure I understand what you meant by CP precedence. CP don't have any defining traits as to what army they belong to if that's what you meant. Think of them like a form of currency. You earn them for bringing a battle forged army and then some detachments grant bonus CP and there is one that subracts 1 CP. You then spend this currency on special abilities and if you bring the proper forces you can expand your available pool of Stratagems. Most Stratagems, however, only target specific keywords and as such you might not be able to target units/models from other detachments. Also keep in mind any sorcerers you have riding around on a Disc of Tzeentch lose the Infantry keyword and gain the Cavalry, Daemon and Fly keywords.

I like the revised 1k list, 3 rubric squads will be better than 2 and the cultists...

For my first couple of games I would;
If I were you, drop the predator, pick up 20pts of upgrades and start fights at the 800pts level.... being under 1k will encourage gaming on smaller boards (4x4 or maybe 3x3) where your spam of psychic abilities and inferno bolter rounds will get into range faster

Just my take on things;
GamerGuy

800pt games are a thing?! I got the 'Are you serious?' over the glasses look from anyone I asked for a small game around here. Even a 1000pt game was scoffed at but at least I've gotten a couple.

I'm currently talking to a guy who's got some Scarab Terminators here on DakkaDakka for trade, so when I have hands on models I'll certainly be looking to get them on the table. To my newb's eye, they seem pretty strong.

Regarding the Predator, in the two games total that I've played were against my Tyranid friend. He has a Hive Tyrant which he names as his Warlord, and gives it a trait that halves all damage after the first hit for the rest of the game. Also a unit of something that gives a -1 to hit to everything around it. And something that lets him ignore damage even from a smite on 4+. Feel no Pain I think it was called? Both games I had second turn, and both games his alpha strike cost me like 200 points worth of guys. The second game I just decided 'My personal win condition is killing THAT thing' and devoted every gun I had to it. 30+ inferno bolt shots, couple of smites, some other nonsense. I ended up dealing a grand total of 5 damage out of his 12 before he turned around and murdered Ahriman for my trouble.

Point is, the list of the time (Three Rubric Squads, 3 Sorcerers, TermiSorc, and Ahriman) DESPERATELY need something that can crack heavy armor. I'm told that, in terms of bang for the buck, that's a Predator. And I just so happened to have found one in The Bins last week that's all painted up in matching blue and has some Tzeentchian stuff pasted on. So I figured I'd give it a shot and see what happens.

(Granted, all of the above games were from before I had gotten my hands on a codex. So I had no strategems or relics or spells that were all that useful, which seems like it'll make a HUGE difference in my next game)

Maybe try a 1500 point game then? Also the reason as think the SoT are great is you can deepstrike a Sorc in TA with them to support. Give him the DMC and you can deep strong me them again somewhere else. I just love mobility options TS have without having to bring transports. And Feel no Pain or rules like it are damage mitigation. They’re kind of like saves but not saves. Any time a unit suffers an unsaved wound (including mortal wounds) you get a chance to ignore it.

I did indeed try a 1500pt game, against some salamanders, and I whupped 'em! Here's the list I used:

Ahriman’s Vicious Smite - 856pt
HQ-297pt
166 Ahriman on Disc
131 Terminator Sorcerer (120)
w/ Force Stave (8)
w/ Inferno Combi-bolter (3)
Troops-321pt
107 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x4 Batty
w/ Force Stave (8)
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol (1)
w/ Inferno Bolter x4 (8)
107 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x4 Boxy
w/ Force Stave
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol
w/ Inferno Bolter x4
107 Aspiring Sorcerer & Rubric Marines x4 Pincer
w/ Force Stave
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol
w/ Inferno Bolter x4
Elites-238pt
238 Scarab Occult Sorcerer Terminators x4 (165)
w/ Force Stave (8)
w/ Inferno Combi-bolter x4 (12)
w/ Power Sword x4 (16)
w/ Hellfire Missile Rack (22)
w/ Soulreaper Cannon (15)
Spells & Relics:
Ahriman
Infernal Gaze WC 5
Doombolt WC 9
Tzeentch's Firestorm WC 7
Sorcelator
Dark Matter Crystal
Warp Time WC 6
Death Hex WC 8
Boxy
Glamour of Tzeentch WC 7
Scarab
Weaver of Fates WC 6
Pincer
Boon of Mutation WC 7
Batty
Glamour of Tzeentch WC 7
Rolling Thunder - 643pts
HQ
121 Exalted Sorcerer
w/ Force Stave
w/ Inferno Bolt Pistol

Heavy Support
180 Chaos Predator (90)
w/ AutoCannon (40)
w/ Lascannon (25)
w/ Lascannon (25)
150 Chaos Predator (90)
w/ AutoCannon (40)
w/ Heavy Bolter (10)
w/ Heavy Bolter (10)
192 Chaos Predator (90)
w/ Twin Lascannon (50)
w/ Combi-Bolter (2)
w/ Lascannon (25)
w/ Lascannon (25)

Exalted
Helm of the Third Eye
Prescience WC 7
Temporal Manipulation WC 6

CP: 6/7
1 Relics of the Thousand Sons +1 Arcana


I'm not quite committed to 3 predators yet, but in this game they owned ALL of the face. Particularly the Laspredator; blew TWO vindicators right off the board and put a dent in his hoverraider before he took it down. And by then it was too late.

The Terminators were proxies that game, sadly, because my real ones had not arrived yet. But they have now! And they're getting their own custom paintjob to match with the Sorcerer Lord, because godDAMN that was a good combo. Teleported in, double smite and warptimed to murder the bejesus out of some of his backline leadership, then redeployed to pincer in the main fight with DMC. I'm calling them the Black Cabal. And I recommend that anyone who's looking at picking up the Thousand Sons seriously consider it. It's about 380 pts all together, so it's not cheap, but they earned the hell out of their place in my army.

MSUs of rubrics REALLY worked for me too, as advised. All three units sat on objectives in cover, each with a different defensive buff up, and just racked up the VP. He would send one or two units after them, and it just wouldn't be enough. Once he sent an HQ in too, he'd usually take down the rubrics, but not without committing a deeply disparate point value to do it.

And the whole time Ahriman was zipping around on his disc and blasting targets of opportunity that overextended. It was fantastic. Also, don't be fooled, his warlord trait is fantastic. Saved his life at least thrice in one round, and then he fled back to his Exalted buddy and got a healing spell.

I'm waffling back and forth on whether I want to roll two of those predators into a single Land Raider to have a shot at finishing deployment first. Plus, being able to deliver two MSU of rubrics anywhere on the board wrapped in a dakkabawks has it's merits...

Next up, a 2000pt game!