Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So this is probably the list I'll be looking to run immediately post FAQ, of course drastic meta shifts could change the list significantly. To Accommodate the points increase on the reapers I dropped the now completely over-costed warlock that was tagging along with them for conceal, and I also dropped 10 guardians from a 20-man blob (deep striking 20-man blobs isn't as exciting anymore). So now rather than deep striking two 20-man guardian blobs on turn 1, the two ranger squads and the 10-man guardian squad will hold down my deployment zone for screening, objective holding, board control etc. The reapers are still with Yvraine and protected in the wave serpent (bonus points if I get to disembark into second floor ruins lol). The Shining spear Ynnari unit (Saim-Hann Keyword) will hopefully get guided, protected, and quickened, double move plus advances, plus the charge and re rolling cc hits of one through raging winds stratagem means they're still a super powerful, super buffed turn 1 charging unit. The fire prisms benefit from having slightly better screening thanks to the 10-man guardian squad now hanging back. I think I still plan on waiting for turn 2 to drop my 20-man guardian blob down to blow something up, but that decision can be made game-to-game. The battalion is still Biel-Tan to allow re rolls of 1's for all the guardians, that is pretty flexible though, when 40 guardians were dropping turn 1 Biel-Tan was a no-brainer; now it's only 20 guardians dropping on turn 2, Biel-Tan is still good, but I could see an argument for Ulthwe or Alaitoc.


Battalion, Spearhead & Patrol Detachments 9 CP

<Battalion – Biel-Tan>

HQ – Warlock Skyrunner w/ Witch Blade & Twin Shuriken Catapult (Protect)
HQ – Warlock Skyrunner w/ Witch Blade & Twin Shuriken Catapult (Quicken)

Troops – 20x Guardian Defenders
Troops – 10x Guardian Defenders

Troops – 5x Rangers

<Patrol – Ynnari>

HQ – Yvraine (Phoenix/Ancestors) (Warlord: Inspiring Leader)

Heavy Support – 10x Dark Reapers w/ Tempest Launcher (Saim Hann)
Transport – Wave Serpent w/ Twin Shuriken Cannons & Shuriken Cannon (Saim Hann)

Troops – 5x Rangers (Saim Hann)

Fast Attack – 9x Shining Spears w/ Star Lance (Saim Hann)

<Spearhead – Alaitoc>

HQ – Farseer w/ Witch Staff, Shuriken Pistol & Faolchu’s Wing (Guide/Doom)

Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon
Heavy Support – Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon

I like it. Looks like a fun list to play with the Fire Prisms. It looks like points are tight, but I would consider some upgrades for the vehicles. Crystal targeting matrix for the Fire Prisms (to move and shoot without penalty) and Spirit Stones for the Wave Serpent.

Question? Can the alaitoc farseer ride in the Saim-Hann wave serpent with the reapers? Can the farseer be in the wave serpent before deployment, such as with Cloudstrike stratagem?

Could the wave Serpent be in the alaitoc detachment to benefit from the -1 to hit, and still hold the Saim-Hann Reapers?

 Ebon wrote:
I like it. Looks like a fun list to play with the Fire Prisms. It looks like points are tight, but I would consider some upgrades for the vehicles. Crystal targeting matrix for the Fire Prisms (to move and shoot without penalty) and Spirit Stones for the Wave Serpent.

Question? Can the alaitoc farseer ride in the Saim-Hann wave serpent with the reapers? Can the farseer be in the wave serpent before deployment, such as with Cloudstrike stratagem?

Could the wave Serpent be in the alaitoc detachment to benefit from the -1 to hit, and still hold the Saim-Hann Reapers?

The linked fire stratagem allows re rolls for all hits and wounds, so CTM is an OK upgrade, but probably not necessary. Spirit Stones would be nice for the wave serpent yes, but it's already extremely durable, and if they try to put enough fire power into it to both kill it then have enough left over to take on the reapers inside, all through my ability to employ defensive stratagems if need be, then have at it lol, at that point probably nothing else in my army is having a shot fired at it.

Yes the Farseer can ride in the wave serpent, however in this list it's given the wings for a 12 inch move to follow the spears up the board and support them with guide/doom. I believe the farseer could even be in it for cloudstrike, though in this list I think I'm still going for webway portal over cloudstrike.

This last question was very helpful, because I believe the answer is yes, I'm not sure why I didn't see it, and I should clearly run the wave serpent that way, as being part of the Ynnari patrol confers zero advantage, and -1 to hit it is pretty huge considering it's cargo. Thanks.

Word of phoenix at wc8 is so hit and miss it’s hard to justify Ynnari at all. Spears are also hurting a lot because quickening and soul burst move from deep strike were banned. I’m not sure this is competitive.

 Therion wrote:
Word of phoenix at wc8 is so hit and miss it’s hard to justify Ynnari at all. Spears are also hurting a lot because quickening and soul burst move from deep strike were banned. I’m not sure this is competitive.

Yvraine is +1 to Psychic Tests, so that power is going off on a 7, with command roll backup, it's still going to be successful the majority of the time.

You also don't quite see what the spears are doing here. There will be no deep striking here. Spears have a 16" move plus auto 6" advance, and new FAQ's confirm that you can advance with extra moves from quicken and the like. These spears start on the board, move 22" with there quicken move, 22" with there normal movement, and then use warriors of the raging wind stratagem for 1 CP to allow them to charge and re roll hits of 1 in the fight phase. So from deployment they have a 56" threat range, on turn 1, no deep strike necessary, it's extremely competitive. IMHO of course.

The issue of range was never a reason why they deep struck. They have infinite range. It was to get them off the board so they can’t get shot by enemy turn 1a alpha. I know LFR stratagem is available to them but they will be hurting against a lot of opponents now (as opposed to pre-faq).

The reapers should be alaitoc so they are allowed to ride in the wave serpent as well if you move the serpent to the alaitoc detachment. Still works in the ynnari detachment using asurani (sp?) keyword.

How have fire prisms been for you?

Well no deep strikers on turn 1 anymore, so they're not worried about that. You must be referring to long range shooting that can reach into the back of my deployment zone. That kind of shooting is always a consideration, but between needing 48" or better guns to reach them, them having a 4++ native even without protect, and my ability to use los blocking terrain in deployment, my guess is they'll be OK. They probably aren't even the best target for that kind of lascannon equivalent gun, given the wave serpent with reapers in it and three fire prisms that must also be dealt with. Of course their are armies that can scout powerful shooting units forward, like RG and sisters, I'd take those individual examples on a case by case basis in regards to deployment tactics etc.

You raise important considerations that must be planned for. But I don't think those concerns rise to the level of non competitiveness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The only jp wrote:
The reapers should be alaitoc so they are allowed to ride in the wave serpent as well if you move the serpent to the alaitoc detachment. Still works in the ynnari detachment using asurani (sp?) keyword.

How have fire prisms been for you?

That's right, the reapers being in the ynnari detachment and the wave serpent being in the alaitoc detachment don't prevent them from working in concert, because they share two keywords with eachother, Asuryani and Aeldari. Ynnari thankfully doesn't remove or even replace any existing keywords, it simply adds ynnari in as an additional keyword.

Fire Prisms have been amazing for me. Fly keyword means they cant be tarpitted, they have three very distinct firing modes that are equally great for infantry, elites/mc's, or tanks, and the double shooting combined with near infinite range, partial LoS ignoring firing, and re rolls to all hits and wounds for only 1 cp has been just incredible.

I've seen a couple of times in this thread the question asked about wave serpents transporting units and it looks like it was answered incorrectly.
Wave serpents can only transport units of the same craftworld as per their transport rule. They dont have to be from the same detachment tho.

Wyldcarde wrote:
I've seen a couple of times in this thread the question asked about wave serpents transporting units and it looks like it was answered incorrectly.
Wave serpents can only transport units of the same craftworld as per their transport rule. They dont have to be from the same detachment tho.

Correct, but putting a craftworld unit into a Ynnari detachment doesn't cause that unit to lose it it's craftworld keyword, it simply gains the Ynnari keyword. So I can take a unit of Dark Reapers from a Ynnari detachment (Keywords: Aeldari, Asuryani, Aspect Warrior, <Craftworld>, Infantry, Dark Reapers, Ynnari), and embark them in a wave serpent from a different detachment, as long as the Dark Reapers and Wave Serpent share the <craftworld> keyword. I simply match the craftworlds and it works. An Alaitoc Dark Reaper squad inside a Ynnari detachment.