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Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Zürich

I've got a 1500 tournament coming up sometime soon, it'll be played with exactly the same rules as the UKGT, just not with the heats system as there are only 60 odd players.
I also doubt that the level of competition will be quite as high, but my guess is that the top 5 players will have pretty competitive lists with them.
So yeah, here's my list:
HQ
-Shas'el @100pts: plasma, pod, array, multi, blacksun.
-Shas'el @100pts: plasma, pod, array, multi, blacksun.

Elite
-2 XV8 @169pts: plasma, pod, multi. TmLd w/ 2 Shield Drones, array.
-2 XV8 @169pts: plasma, pod, multi. TmLd w/ 2 Shield Drones, array.
-6 XV15 @190pts: TmLd w/ Bonding.

Troops
-6 FWs:-.
-10 Kroot:-.
-10 Kroot:-.

Heavy Support
-Railhead @190pts: SMs, multi, target lock, decoy, d-pod, blacksun.
-Railhead @190pts: SMs, multi, target lock, decoy, d-pod, blacksun.
-Railhead @190pts: SMs, multi, target lock, decoy, d-pod, blacksun.

Thats pretty much it. The blacksun make up 21pts in total, and I couldn't think of anything better to do with those pts. Also considering that you have a 16% chance for 1st turn Nightfight in some of the missions, it might jsut be useful.

C&C very welcome.

-"Subtle is subjective, of course; in a finesseless game like 40K, anything that isn't a brick to the head is downright sneaky..." ->lord_sutekh 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





it was good in the previous codex and it's still good now. Better with BS5 commanders.

Any 1500pt list with 3 railheads is gonna be competitive.

If I had to niggle, I would suggest tweaking the steatlhs to be more cost-effective. There's torgoch's gun drone swarm thing with 3 dudes and 6 gun drones that looks maybe cool. You could also just flat out drop them for some pathfinders with an SMS fish, to get you another vehicle and some markerlights for your Crisis. Not sure if that would be better or not but it might be.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Zürich

HQ are BS5, they have arrays...

Yeah, I've seen Torgoch's SS, but I'm not convinced. 3 SS + 6 GDs right ? 150pts ? Its got good firepower, grant you that, plus it hits better than 6 SS and costs less, but my problem is this:
1.) 4+ save, you get hit by a whirlwind (yet to see a SM army that doesnt' have one) and bam, you're no longer a scoring unit.
2.) Footprint. Flying bases are bigger than normal bases, so that unit is going to be very big.

I'd have to test it a bit, the bigger squad size may prove a problem when it comes to JSJ around terrain and getting a good palce to infiltrate.

In total I'd save 30pts, then if I shave off the BSF and the DP I get up to 65pts, which is enough for another Fireknife...

-"Subtle is subjective, of course; in a finesseless game like 40K, anything that isn't a brick to the head is downright sneaky..." ->lord_sutekh 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





yeah I know, I was saying that the list is better than it was previously by having bs5 commanders.

I'd pretty much not bother with the stealths, personally, and get something better. Squads of 6 stealths always seemed awkward to me. You're right, a bunch of gun drones might just make it moreso.

I'd consider 2 more crisis instead of the stealths as well as the possibility of pathfinders. It's really too bad pathfinders can't be taken without the dang fish. While fish are decent, I'd rather have 24 markerlights in my fast attack slots with no extraneous fish.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Zürich

Yeah, I'd also take PFs if the fish was optional, but it isn't, so there is no way i'm paying that many pts for 8 guys.

Basically I need the SS against Guard, Orks, nids and DE. Otherwise I'm going to have a hard time wittling down all those bodies.


-"Subtle is subjective, of course; in a finesseless game like 40K, anything that isn't a brick to the head is downright sneaky..." ->lord_sutekh 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





railgun hammerheads deal just fine with orks, nids, de and so forth. Phoom, S6/AP4 pieplate.

Murdering entire squads of orks from 6 feet away is priceless. Beats the crap out of Stealth suits, who will die to the first trukk full of boys they fail to blow up, or if even 2-3 genestealers engage them.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Zürich

Granted. I don't have much experience against Orks, as none of my club members play them. I only know them from reading and a couple of tourney games.

It would be great if I could ditch my SS for more Crisis, would also save me some pts, added with the other extra pts lying around I could squeeze another FK in.

Although, SS have done me proud in the past, and I'm reluctant to ditch them. This tactic is evil against orks, nids and IG: first blast 'em with subs, then clean up the rest with SS. Rinse and repeat.
Also works with subs / SMS combo.

-"Subtle is subjective, of course; in a finesseless game like 40K, anything that isn't a brick to the head is downright sneaky..." ->lord_sutekh 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Every time I played orks I have wiped them from the board in 3 turns or less.

My 1500pt list used to use stealths, but they were basically ineffective against everyone. Every game I ever played with it (maybe 20 games) I would wish I had more crisis or more devilfish instead of my 9 stealths.

I used--
2 x Shasels
1 x 2 fireknives
5 stealths
4 stealths
2 x 10 FCW in devilfish with burst cannon/multitracker/decoy
3 x railhead with burst cannons/target lock/decoy/multi

Granted, that list was suboptimal but it did pretty well minus not having enough anti-marine guns. In the tourney I took it to, I played:
1) Crappy iron hands in rhinos, who handed me a minor defeat because my stealth suits couldn't take out rhinos reliably.
2) Orks, who died in 3 turns. Stealths killed maybe 15-20 orks, nothing to write home about. Railheads killed that many /each/ as well as vehicles here and there due to target lock (submunition some orks, throw 6 burst cannon shots into a Trukk)
3) Tyranids with lots of genestealers and 3 CC carnifexes, I think it was. I think you can guess how that turned out. pie pie pie, rail plasma good game.
4) Dark Angels with lots of vehicles and shootie marine squads in razorbacks. Again my crisis killed lots of razorbacks and a predator side armor at 30" while my stealths got obliterated by bolters. My Railheads finished off an LRC and dropped pie and burst cannon love everywhere. I was handed a tie here, probably because of a lack of crisis suits tbh (My opponent made an uncanny # of 3+ saves and I failed to drop two squads below half in the end of the game due to a plasma shortage)

The stars of my mechanized list were undoubtedly crisis suit ICs using vehicle screens and the crisis suits JSJing for 24" shots and doing antivehicle work. My stealths just never worked. They were always superfluous - not as good at swarms as the railheads, not as good at killing marines and vehicles as the crisis.

If I were to do it again I'd run crisis exclusively, one squad with Plasma/Fusion and two with fireknife.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Not saying stealths suck. They just never suited my playing style. Possibly that says I have a lack of finesse, I don't know.

More, I think it says something about the number of vehicles in my local metagame. Any time I don't take a bunch of AV power I regret it, and stealth suits are just not as good at the things I see a lot of: Power armor and tanks.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Closest thing to a flaw is that 6FWs are just dead weight. You could take the SS squad's points, turn the FWs into a FoF squad that can do the same job, and have points left over. Those points plus your BSF points ought to get you close to another XV8 suit. If you can get AFP and Fusion on that suit you should be safe dropping a Railgun down to an Ion Cannon and end up with more total anti-MEQ firepower.
   
Made in ee
Regular Dakkanaut




Zürich

MechFWs don't get anywhere near as effective as a SS team. How often do MechFWs shoot ? 1-2, max 3 times in a game ? how often do SS shoot ? Every turn. Added the survivability of SS over MechFWs, even with their DF. Your're, those are 60pts of dead weight, but by making them into MechFWs I've got 240pts of dead weight.

And no, 21pts isn't anywhere near getting me another Crisis.

Welcome to Dakka.

Atm I'm loathe to drop the SS, against static guard they're awesome, because your opponent will place all his models 2" apart, so the subs hardly do anything. I think I'll keep the SS for the moment.

-"Subtle is subjective, of course; in a finesseless game like 40K, anything that isn't a brick to the head is downright sneaky..." ->lord_sutekh 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Concerning Mech FW vs SS- I agree. I was just trying to come up with something to do with those 6 FWs and the SS team was their only analog on the list. Also I did not mean that you could get a suit for 21 points, but rather 21 + the leftover points from upgrading the FWs (approx 40 points, codex not in front of me atm) + potentially 35 if you downgraded to an Ionhead.

Your list is fairly flawless as such things go; I was merely trying to brainstorm a way to get use of the 60 points you are obliged to spend on FWs. Perhaps the fact that they are somewhat apt to be ignored as your list has them currently is useful enough.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




Zürich

And thats just it, those 6 FW get overlooked 4 out of 5 games. Come turn six and my opponent says " Oh gak, you've got 6 gakky FWs holding that corner, f*%&."

Put 'm somwhere where he'll never get them, like behind a big forest in the corner, et voilà, the quarter is contested at worst, yours at best.

-"Subtle is subjective, of course; in a finesseless game like 40K, anything that isn't a brick to the head is downright sneaky..." ->lord_sutekh 
   
 
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