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Armigers are a fairly strong unit but there are much stronger units in the game. I don't see any reason that they shouldn't be allowed to generate command points like any other unit.

I think the reason the restriction on them not giving command benefit was to prevent armies from taking 3 armigers in super-heavy detachments for 3 CP without any associated HQ tax - yeah - that would be a little strong - I can see why they would want to prevent that. I think this rule would do that better though.

Knight lance
"A knight lance detachment does not receive command benefit without at least 1 Questoris or Dominius class knight in the detachment"
This would effectively remove remove the possibility armiger spam for additional CP points. Without making armigers worthless piles of trash for an IK army which can not afford to take filler units that do not generate command points.

Why not a 180 pt AM CP battery to solve the issue?

 skchsan wrote:
Why not a 180 pt AM CP battery to solve the issue?

Yeah - absolutely.

That's the problem.

 skchsan wrote:
Why not a 180 pt AM CP battery to solve the issue?

Then you’re paying 180 points to solve the problem. OP wants to change the IK codex so that it doesn’t require an IG tax to play the game like everyone else does, while encouraging players to take units that otherwise are less than optimal due to how restrictive a Knight army is.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Why not a 180 pt AM CP battery to solve the issue?

Then you’re paying 180 points to solve the problem. OP wants to change the IK codex so that it doesn’t require an IG tax to play the game like everyone else does, while encouraging players to take units that otherwise are less than optimal due to how restrictive a Knight army is.

Essentially yes. Plus - not everyone else requires command point battery. Everyone army can at least get a battalion (even custodes). IK can only generate 3 points on their own at the 2000 point level. So this makes the restriction on armigers even more silly when you really think about it. They can't possibly be targeting knights with it. They are the most CP starved army in the game. It was obviously targeted at other imperial armies trying to get firepower and CP for a reasonable price. Which is why I think a rule like I suggested would be more reasonable.

The fix on this is intentional.

Before I learned about this rule, I was mathing out a 2k list with something like 9 Helverins and a Larger Knight with all the survivability buffs

That army would put out 9x4d3 shots, so average 8*9 or 72 autocannon shots a turn. And you best believe me that it'd be broken as heck.

 iGuy91 wrote:
The fix on this is intentional.

Before I learned about this rule, I was mathing out a 2k list with something like 9 Helverins and a Larger Knight with all the survivability buffs

That army would put out 9x4d3 shots, so average 8*9 or 72 autocannon shots a turn. And you best believe me that it'd be broken as heck.

Not saying that wouldn't be strong but you can prevent spam in other ways like...don't make them in units of 3.

Plus that army would get absolutely wrecked other strong armies - that army isn't even problematic. Manticores and russes would absolutely dominate that list.

Yeah, that sounds like a decent-ish list, but not that good.

For reference, 72 Helverin Cannon shots are 48 hits, against Russ-Spam that's 16 wounds, 8 failed saves, or two dead Russes a turn.

Considering IG can field 12, easy, with three being Commanders, that's 21 BS 3+ Battle Cannon shots and 63 BS 4+ Battle Cannon shots.

Or, put another way, 14+31.5 hits,for 45.5, just over 30 wounds, 20 failed saves, and over three dead Helverins a turn.