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Morning wargamers. I need a rules clarification regarding Kharn and the Axe of Blind Fury relic.

As states:
Axe of Blind Fury Melee Melee +3 -3 D3 You cannot re-roll or modify to hit rolls of 1 for attacks made with the Axe of Blind Fury. Instead, these attacks automatically hit a friendly unit within 1". Randomly determine which unit is hit if there is more than 1. If there are no friendly units within 1", the hit is ignored

Now Kharn's ability "The Betrayer" has the same effect.

Question is does the bearer of the Axe or Kharne also count themselves as friendly units within 1' and have the hits of 1s allocated to Kharn or the Axe bearer? Like the way a Chaos Lord's aura allows him to re-roll 1.

Thanks

Yes, he does. See my sig.

Yes. Unless the wording had been changed via a FAQ Kharn is a friendly unit within 1" of himself so belts himself in the face.

So Kharn or the Axe bearer belts himself on a 1. RA'W or RA'I? I tend to agree with hitting himself and I'm the one using Kharne. I've asked several local boards and some are 50/50 and some are "Why would Kharn smack himself". Or the Axe of Blind Fury. They're crazy berzerkers, why wouldn't they do that. It's like playing M:tG Suicide Black. You're going to hurt yourself to win.

I dont think it's supposed to RAI. Because otherwise they wouldn't have added the "If there are no friendly units within 1", the hit is ignored" part. It makes no sense for the rule if he counts as a friendly unit since you'll never ignore the hit then. If you were playing me I'd say no dont hit yourself.

To add another aspect. The rule on the weapon is not an aura ability. It is its own weapon ability and because it is not an aura he would not get hit.

Again this is just how I would play it, but i can see how it could be interpreted raw. I also dont play RAW, if something is obviously supposed to be interpreted another way then that's how we play it

RaW is clear. If they want to change the effect, they can issue an errata.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I dont think it's supposed to RAI.

Did you write the codex? If the answer is No, you can't claim to know RaI. And like I said, if RaI is different, they can issue an Errata to fix it. Until then, RaW is RaI.

CarlTamez wrote:
Morning wargamers. I need a rules clarification regarding Kharn and the Axe of Blind Fury relic.

As states:
Axe of Blind Fury Melee Melee +3 -3 D3 You cannot re-roll or modify to hit rolls of 1 for attacks made with the Axe of Blind Fury. Instead, these attacks automatically hit a friendly unit within 1". Randomly determine which unit is hit if there is more than 1. If there are no friendly units within 1", the hit is ignored

Now Kharn's ability "The Betrayer" has the same effect.

Question is does the bearer of the Axe or Kharne also count themselves as friendly units within 1' and have the hits of 1s allocated to Kharn or the Axe bearer? Like the way a Chaos Lord's aura allows him to re-roll 1.

Thanks

I don't have that Codex, nor have I faced that relic. If your quote is the actual rule, though, I find the last bit "if there are no friendly units within 1", the hit is ignored" interesting. If the bearer was considered a friendly unit for the purposes of the rule, why would they have that bit? If the bearer was considered a friendly unit within 1" then there would always be a unit within 1". It seems to me that the bearer would not hit himself due to that part.

Maybe "friendly" is not same as <keyword> and ruling about auras do not apply here? Rules that have <keyword> units within a certain distance include the model with the rule, but "friendly" implies other units.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
RaW is clear. If they want to change the effect, they can issue an errata.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I dont think it's supposed to RAI.

Did you write the codex? If the answer is No, you can't claim to know RaI. And like I said, if RaI is different, they can issue an Errata to fix it. Until then, RaW is RaI.

No I didnt. At the same time, many times you can come to a logical conclusion even though you weren't involved in the rules writing process.

At least until its officially addressed

 BaconCatBug wrote:
RaW is clear. If they want to change the effect, they can issue an errata.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I dont think it's supposed to RAI.

Did you write the codex? If the answer is No, you can't claim to know RaI. And like I said, if RaI is different, they can issue an Errata to fix it. Until then, RaW is RaI.

Its not an aura ability with a keyword, so maybe take a deeper look?

How can a model (or anything) be friendly with itself? I understand that the word "implied" is very dangerous here, but friendly implies that you are talking about other entities.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
How can a model (or anything) be friendly with itself?

BRB:
All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models.

Tell me, is Khârn in the same army as himself?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
How can a model (or anything) be friendly with itself?

BRB:
All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models.

Tell me, is Khârn in the same army as himself?

He is in the same army as himself, which is not the same thing as being friendly with himself. Is he friendly with anyone?!

The BRB rules quote you have is from the part about moving and not being able to move within 1" of enemy models. Going back to the relic in question, why have the part about there not being friendly models within 1" if the model itself was considered friendly for the purposes of the relic rule?

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
He is in the same army as himself, which is not the same thing as being friendly with himself. Is he friendly with anyone?!

The BRB rules quote you have is from the part about moving and not being able to move within 1" of enemy models. Going back to the relic in question, why have the part about there not being friendly models within 1" if the model itself was considered friendly for the purposes of the relic rule?

Because GW are incompetent and can't write rules correctly. That part suggests he's supposed to hit himself, but the rule doesn't allow him to do so. The rule needs to say "another" model or "a different model". Keep in mind this only happens if Khârn isn't within any meatshields, so the solution is to not have him alone.

The fact the rule contains its last sentence clearly shows they intend him not to hit himself. However GW is dumb and forgot that he counts as a friendly unit to himself. As a result, the last sentence means nothing.

The rule really should say "Instead, these attacks automatically hit another friendly unit within 1"."

 Grey Templar wrote:
The fact the rule contains its last sentence clearly shows they intend him not to hit himself. However GW is dumb and forgot that he counts as a friendly unit to himself. As a result, the last sentence means nothing.

The rule really should say "Instead, these attacks automatically hit another friendly unit within 1"."

et fini.