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Good
It Lives - Knowing the game will live on at least for a while instead of the DOA of Shadow Wars.
Blazing Guns - You go, I go in shooting. Very thematic feel.
Command point / Tactic Cards – adds a wild card to the game, if all else don’t work, buy a reroll.
Sixteen Factions – Covered about every army in 40k

Bad
Font – the size on many pages is super small... I am not old and blind but if I must continue to read pages like this I will be...
Artwork – Full panel pages are just thrown in... like in the death guard the art page seems to be misplaced and unneeded.
Lost Detail – Like the Harlequin Kiss, it doesn’t do additional damage with a certain roll... just strait up attack.
“Special” Special Tactic cards - Cards that are only available in $50+ box sets.
Zero Upgrades – You need to spend points on something to complete your unit, but way too many things cost “zero” points.

Ugly
Double Lines of Text - Double Lines of Text that say the same thing with minor changes. Just continue the previous sentence.
Layout – I don’t like the new “8th edition”unit layout… when you change something, it should be an improvement. Not something just different and harder to read.
Stream lining – Changed stats to the number needed to hit ,so you don’t have to look up on a stats on a combat chart, then added a chart for combat modifiers.
“Zero Again” Ugly - Necron list is the worse, it has four troop choices with point cost values and everything else in the list is “zero”
Editor in Chief?? – Wasting the time to find where it says that Genestealer Cult can take a Genestealer, it’s the faction name, but not listed in the army roster. Small note on previous page.


I would have liked them to keep the SWA style of Close Combat, (roll number of attacks, pick highest and add WS) its nice to be in close combat and maybe have a chance to win combat in your opponents turn.
Rolling dice at the same time as your opponent makes you feel involved with the CC.

If that is an accurate list of the bad and ugly, it seems like a pretty damn good game :-)

I'm really looking forward to getting my first games this week.

I do agree there's a bit of untidyness in the rulebook.

There are also quite a lot of empty spaces, which in days past GW would have filled with flavour text or images.

Well you left out the atrocity that is the long range shooting penalty. Even GW seemed to understand how stupid this was, and they made an effort to exempt grenades from it, but it still has a pretty silly interaction with pistols and with a weapon like the Tau Pulse Blaster. They really should have just set a static value for "long range" and avoided all this stupidity...anything 12" and under is normal, anything over 12" is long range. But no, now we have a situation where some pistols have a penalty to hit at anything over 3" away...which is basically almost close combat.

Another Bad/Ugly is the complete shafting CSM received. But that should have been expected so I can't really complain about it.

 exliontamer wrote:
Well you left out the atrocity that is the long range shooting penalty. Even GW seemed to understand how stupid this was, and they made an effort to exempt grenades from it, but it still has a pretty silly interaction with pistols and with a weapon like the Tau Pulse Blaster. They really should have just set a static value for "long range" and avoided all this stupidity...anything 12" and under is normal, anything over 12" is long range. But no, now we have a situation where some pistols have a penalty to hit at anything over 3" away...which is basically almost close combat.

Considering that usually the reason to shoot a pistol rather than a better weapon is that you're in close combat, I really do not see that as an issue. And with the Pulse Blaster you can choose which mode you use, so if you want to avoid the penaltiy, you can use a weaker setting.

 Genoside07 wrote:

Lost Detail – Like the Harlequin Kiss, it doesn’t do additional damage with a certain roll... just strait up attack.

Harlequin Kiss has had the same stat line sine 8th edition came out 2 years ago.

The long range thing isn't terrible in itself, but combines weirdly with Rapid Fire and Melta weapons, where you end up with double bonuses to firing within half distance.

craggy wrote:
The long range thing isn't terrible in itself, but combines weirdly with Rapid Fire and Melta weapons, where you end up with double bonuses to firing within half distance.

It's almost like you're being encouraged to move instead of standing still and shooting for the whole game.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Harlequin Kiss has had the same stat line sine 8th edition came out 2 years ago.

But Games Workshop touted about how much this game was a stand alone game and would be supported for a long time.
Does Shadow spire use very similar stats as Age of Sigmar?? (Asking, I don't play either) but just trying to point out like
I am sure Adeptus Titanicus will not pull stat lines from 8th edition.. Just wanted them to do their own thing with the game.

They could have added in a little fluff details to thing since there is less to keep track of than 40k, I only hoped that being
encouraged to named each trooper that he could also have a custom load out like a pistol with laser sight and special ammo..

Another bad that I am seeing people point out is in the Catchan command box set that is perfect for making custom heroes
for kill team. It has parts to make a medic figure, but normal guard can not take the medic trait.

 exliontamer wrote:
Another Bad/Ugly is the complete shafting CSM received. But that should have been expected so I can't really complain about it.

As a CSM player, I certainly don't feel shafted, but it is pants-on-head stupid that Chaos marines cannot be Combat specialists, while fething cultists can.

 Genoside07 wrote:
But Games Workshop touted about how much this game was a stand alone game and would be supported for a long time.
Does Shadow spire use very similar stats as Age of Sigmar?? (Asking, I don't play either) but just trying to point out like
I am sure Adeptus Titanicus will not pull stat lines from 8th edition.. Just wanted them to do their own thing with the game.

Shadespire and Age of Sigmar proper are set in the same universe, but are completely different in terms of game mechanics. So there is no overlap.
What GW did do, is to make separate AoS rules for the models in the Shadespire game, so you can use the models in both games.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 exliontamer wrote:
Another Bad/Ugly is the complete shafting CSM received. But that should have been expected so I can't really complain about it.

As a CSM player, I certainly don't feel shafted, but it is pants-on-head stupid that Chaos marines cannot be Combat specialists, while fething cultists can.

Yeah I think CSM has actually done alright this time. Becabuse for once they aren’t objectively worse than loyalist marines point-for-point. The specialism restrictions are a bit odd though.

Specialism restrictions have been very odd. I don't know why it wasn't just left completely open.

Yeah, I'd say that the 'bad and ugly' are overall pretty minor and what's good is great.

Yeah they could have tidied up the 8th-ed-style datasheets, but they wanted to bring people in from 40k, or alternatively introduce people to 40k, so keeping the style the same would prevent too much confusion.

 Duskweaver wrote:

As a CSM player, I certainly don't feel shafted, but it is pants-on-head stupid that Chaos marines cannot be Combat specialists, while fething cultists can.

Really? As a Chaos player, I think CSM are one of the worst KT teams...

drbored wrote:
Yeah they could have tidied up the 8th-ed-style datasheets, but they wanted to bring people in from 40k, or alternatively introduce people to 40k, so keeping the style the same would prevent too much confusion.

It also makes bringing models into KT from 40k a lot easier for narrative and open players.

Teschio wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:

As a CSM player, I certainly don't feel shafted, but it is pants-on-head stupid that Chaos marines cannot be Combat specialists, while fething cultists can.

Really? As a Chaos player, I think CSM are one of the worst KT teams...

What makes you say that? Compared to normal SM's you lose ATSKNF and you're a point cheaper, you can take the 1pt banner to make everyone Ld8/9 and you lose what...

access to a missile launcher and grav guns? Heavy Bolter and Plasma Gun sniper specialist are better anyway. You get access to Cultist suicide flamers/cultist stubbers instead of scoots (better trade IMO) and your basic bolter boiz can take chainswords instead, which might be better depending on the meta.

CSM is pretty solid IMO.

orks are the ones that got the short end of the stick in killteam.

Mostly because of lack of options. No nobz access, 'eavy armor, and no way of subbing in the auras we depend on in regular 40k (even partially) makes them kinda monobuild.
Fortunately due to the scope of killteam i dont feel like im investing a ton of money to get another faction. I may finally delve into tyranids since they do have warrior access and i love those models.

the_scotsman wrote:

What makes you say that? Compared to normal SM's you lose ATSKNF and you're a point cheaper, you can take the 1pt banner to make everyone Ld8/9 and you lose what...

access to a missile launcher and grav guns? Heavy Bolter and Plasma Gun sniper specialist are better anyway. You get access to Cultist suicide flamers/cultist stubbers instead of scoots (better trade IMO) and your basic bolter boiz can take chainswords instead, which might be better depending on the meta.

CSM is pretty solid IMO.

I'm not saying SMs are good either. Lots of better armies in KT. But they have more options for variery (primaris), and cultists are overpriced (the gunners cost the same as AM guys, with -1Sv and -1 Ld, and you can only take 2 flamers instead of 4 of AM, not counting scions). There are FAR better armies than SMs in KT, but I think CSM are even worse

The list of "to hit" modifiers is as simple to learn as the "to wound" list. So thats not a big issue IMO, though I find a lot I wish they would have put some more time into changing.

The artwork seems to keep the pages even - Like you won't have two armies or different sections of the rules across a single spread.

The rule book got me to play something 40k related again.

I hope they do not turn Kill Team into an LCG...

 Genoside07 wrote:
Good
Zero Upgrades – You need to spend points on something to complete your unit, but way too many things cost “zero” points.

I don't understand this one. It makes no logical sense to me.
If the point cost of an option is integrated in the model that will have access to such option, is simpler to charge more (1+ points) only the options that are effectively more powerful.
If a model has 5 options, and these options are all equivalent in power (therefore all marked 0) does not mean, or at least does not mean necessarily, that these options are not there or that the choice is not meaningful.

 Genoside07 wrote:
Good
It Lives - Knowing the game will live on at least for a while instead of the DOA of Shadow Wars.
Blazing Guns - You go, I go in shooting. Very thematic feel.
Command point / Tactic Cards – adds a wild card to the game, if all else don’t work, buy a reroll.
Sixteen Factions – Covered about every army in 40k

Bad
Font – the size on many pages is super small... I am not old and blind but if I must continue to read pages like this I will be...
Artwork – Full panel pages are just thrown in... like in the death guard the art page seems to be misplaced and unneeded.
Lost Detail – Like the Harlequin Kiss, it doesn’t do additional damage with a certain roll... just strait up attack.
“Special” Special Tactic cards - Cards that are only available in $50+ box sets.
Zero Upgrades – You need to spend points on something to complete your unit, but way too many things cost “zero” points.

Ugly
Double Lines of Text - Double Lines of Text that say the same thing with minor changes. Just continue the previous sentence.
Layout – I don’t like the new “8th edition”unit layout… when you change something, it should be an improvement. Not something just different and harder to read.
Stream lining – Changed stats to the number needed to hit ,so you don’t have to look up on a stats on a combat chart, then added a chart for combat modifiers.
“Zero Again” Ugly - Necron list is the worse, it has four troop choices with point cost values and everything else in the list is “zero”
Editor in Chief?? – Wasting the time to find where it says that Genestealer Cult can take a Genestealer, it’s the faction name, but not listed in the army roster. Small note on previous page.


I would have liked them to keep the SWA style of Close Combat, (roll number of attacks, pick highest and add WS) its nice to be in close combat and maybe have a chance to win combat in your opponents turn.
Rolling dice at the same time as your opponent makes you feel involved with the CC.

While I won't say you do not have a point a out layout and pics etc I think that in the long term it hardly reflects on the game.
If they have good reasons for 0 point stuff I do not see a problem with that.
I dont see a real problem with your streamlining point either.
A problem with your list and it's layout is doubles between bad and ugly for someone with that much comments on the KT book it sems unforgivable.


So that leaves:

It Lives - Knowing the game will live on at least for a while instead of the DOA of Shadow Wars.
Blazing Guns - You go, I go in shooting. Very thematic feel.
Command point / Tactic Cards – adds a wild card to the game, if all else don’t work, buy a reroll.
Sixteen Factions – Covered about every army in 40k

Bad

Lost Detail – Like the Harlequin Kiss, it doesn’t do additional damage with a certain roll... just strait up attack.
“Special” Special Tactic cards - Cards that are only available in $50+ box sets.


Ugly

Editor in Chief?? – Wasting the time to find where it says that Genestealer Cult can take a Genestealer, it’s the faction name, but not listed in the army roster. Small note on previous page.

The last ugly hardly reflects on the game either and I don't understand the problem with harlequins kiss..

So for me only 1 bad thing remaining.. but that is a serious one to me I must say.. GW shouldn't do this. Imho.