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Hello, I am wanting to get into space marines and have looked into a bunch of different chapters and have narrowed it down between the black Templar and the grey knights. I like that the black templars are against pyckers but I also really dont mind holy untaintable holy magic that the grey knights appear to have (sorry I always refer to psykers as mages). I seem to like both of their fluff but I think I like the visuals of the grey knights more. I know this may seem like a weird question I am just really stuck between both of them and I get that they are pretty different groups I am just a bit stuck on choosing, any help would be appreciated,

Do you also play the game? Because if you do that often enough, then GK are not the most fun army to play with or against.

No idea how BT though. Who knows maybe they are worse, although I struggle to imagine how it could be so.

I commend your taste in aesthetic, I love GKs & BTs too. But... well, they are very bad armies right now. They are drawn from the two worst codeces in the game. GK are the rank bottom, and BT are from a codex that has some nifty things in it that make Space Marines viable, but you can't have any of them (Papa Smurf, -1s to hit, scary-mode Aggressors, etc). BTs are slightly better I think, as they do have a nice relic (extending a character's buff bubble to 9", which double its radius), but the crux of the problem is that they are an assault army without any assault units, and so you're better off playing them very gunny with a Chapter Master with the relic.

If you don't care about any of this, go ahead. Another variable ot take into consideration is painting: GKs are very easy to paint well, BTs are quite hard (black is a bit tricky, but doable). However, BTs look very cool on the table.

Finally, do you have any other Imperial kit? Because if you do, I'd recommend GKs. You can offset their overcostedness with very cheaply-pointed admech or guard units, and have yourself a cool and viable army.

Well, I like GK, their fluff and their models. Their codex is not the best in the 40k universe but with some allies (AM) absolutely playable.

one thing to consider about black templars if you like the aestetic but don't like the rules they're a lot easier to run as another marine army "these aren't the black templars they're the black umm... crusaders. and are dark angel sucessors"

Grey Knights meanwhile are Grey Knights.

Rules and faction power levels will change. Take whom models and fluff you like more. Unless you want play competive non-fluffy games.

Have you looked into Custodes? Similar vibes to both armies in the fanatically loyal sense with more elitism. They also can have black armor http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Shadowkeepers

But yeah you have good taste, the Grey Knight terminators (especially the 4th ed metal ones) are some of my favorite models GW has ever made.

@OP:
Don´t start to collect either of them because both suck and nobody wants to see more jackass marines on the table. So what are you going to do with your hard earned cash? Save it for bad times? Nope, wait and invest it in the brand new SOB army coming in 2019. Believe me, you will thank me afterwards.

These are two of my favourite armies in the game. To me, their aesthetic epitomizes warhammer 40k.

Unfortunate they are both fething god aweful in game. Unless you are playing casually, don’t count on winning much.

Add into this that Primaris is now a thing which means all the models will probably get redone somewhere down the line as well.

If this doesn’t bother you then I’d suggest getting a Black Templars force and ally in a Grey Knight detachment. This would be very fluffy.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
These are two of my favourite armies in the game. To me, their aesthetic epitomizes warhammer 40k.

Unfortunate they are both fething god aweful in game. Unless you are playing casually, don’t count on winning much.

Add into this that Primaris is now a thing which means all the models will probably get redone somewhere down the line as well.

If this doesn’t bother you then I’d suggest getting a Black Templars force and ally in a Grey Knight detachment. This would be very fluffy.

They hate psykers and hate the inquisition after the celestial lions incident. I’m sure they love the psychic right hand of the inquisition.

 Jaxler wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
These are two of my favourite armies in the game. To me, their aesthetic epitomizes warhammer 40k.

Unfortunate they are both fething god aweful in game. Unless you are playing casually, don’t count on winning much.

Add into this that Primaris is now a thing which means all the models will probably get redone somewhere down the line as well.

If this doesn’t bother you then I’d suggest getting a Black Templars force and ally in a Grey Knight detachment. This would be very fluffy.

They hate psykers and hate the inquisition after the celestial lions incident. I’m sure they love the psychic right hand of the inquisition.

well I'm sure they'll forget all about the indignity

Don’t know what happened with celestial lions incident. Never read it.

They’ve always hated psykers, but also know they are necessity, like navigators as an example.

You can literally make any fluff work in 40k.

The inquisition intercedes where they deem necessary.

I wouldn't start a SM army at the moment. The way forward is unclear but there is a greater than 0% chance that "regular" marines get squatted and replaced by the new primaris sculpts in the next 2-5 years.

My guess is some day soon they will come out with robed primaris (DA and BT) which will take over as the "main" sculpts for marines (maybe why they are phasing out bike kits in codexes vs indexes, new primaris bikers??)

As a slow painter it took me at least 5 years to paint my first couple thousand points of black templars (do not prime that shoulder black no matter what you do, although I've heard good things about celestial white but I still have nightmares about 5-7 coats per shoulder pad and god forbid if you get impatient and don't let it dry all the way between coats...)

They both may be the worst performing armies on the table top so there's that. I'm not sure. All that being said the Templars have some of the best lore around and the older sword brethren models are fantastic.

You could probably get a fair sized force used for cheap. My advice would be to collect slow. Paint as you go and keep an ear out for any new primaris rumors.

Grey Knights on the other hand may get really good if CA comes out and aggressively tries to fix them. Their newer sculpts are cool and the Dreadknight offers an amazing base for cool conversions/kit bashes if that is your thing.

Either way, collect what you like but keep in mind that if you don't have a close group of like minded people to actually play with you will have a serious disadvantage when it comes to actually playing (for the next year or so this edition is around bar GW fixing grey knights.) I can't see GW fixing all of the problems with BT as they are tied to vanilla marines which are broken because of guilliman and all of the marine +1 chapters (DA, BA, SW, DW). Grey knights may be salvageable if GW cares (which it seems like they do) so even though they are currently worse they may be better as soon as CA 2018.

Neither.

bananathug wrote:
I wouldn't start a SM army at the moment. The way forward is unclear but there is a greater than 0% chance that "regular" marines get squatted and replaced by the new primaris sculpts in the next 2-5 years..

Or just start a Primaris marine army. That's pretty future proof investment.

How about if I started a white Templar army painted up the primaris in said colours and used the normal space marine rules for now. Would that be a safe beat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also like the athestics of the white templars. I am not a huge fan of painting white but I could get over it it would be the better investment in the long run,
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/White_Templars
also why does my flag randomly change sometimes its fine just weird

Hi, I would recommend starting with Space Wolves or Dark Angels. These factions are unique and have a fairly rich backstory.

Space Wolves are getting a codex release very shortly, and are expected to be solid. Also, how cool is it to have a dreadnought wielding an axe and a shield? Answer: very cool.

 DeLong wrote:
How about if I started a white Templar army painted up the primaris in said colours and used the normal space marine rules for now. Would that be a safe beat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also like the athestics of the white templars. I am not a huge fan of painting white but I could get over it it would be the better investment in the long run,
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/White_Templars
also why does my flag randomly change sometimes its fine just weird

That should be a safe bet if you wanted to run them as codex space marines. You'd be able to run them as any chapter in the codex. You wouldn't really be able to run them as grey knights unless your opponent agrees to let you use them as "counts as" grey knights because of the different wargear. You'd also have the option of running them as other space marine chapters that have their own codex as long as the wargear is still correct or you discuss it with your opponent.

Or just skip all the carefullness and just start a proper black templar crusade! If you are worthy you will feel it in your heart. Then all the rules and primaris in the world can't stand in the way of such an epic project!

For the Emperor and Sigismund! No pity! No remorse! No fear!

I have now heard in from multiple sources that they will be addressing grey knights in chapter approved in December so hopefully don't let their current issues prevent you from choosing them.

 nurgle86 wrote:
I have now heard in from multiple sources that they will be addressing grey knights in chapter approved in December so hopefully don't let their current issues prevent you from choosing them.

They may address them but I doubt anything will get fixed. Only a few people (mostly on this forum) are motivated to actually fix GK and have a plan to do it, and none of us have been hired yet.

 Marmatag wrote:
Space Wolves are getting a codex release very shortly, and are expected to be solid. Also, how cool is it to have a dreadnought wielding an axe and a shield?

You mean dumb? If so, the answer is: exceedingly dumb.

Especially if it's made out of wood like their regular storm shields

And the less said about Murderhobo, the better. Alas, they are doubling down on it...