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++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [20 PL, 360pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power fist

+ Elites +

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Company Ancient [4 PL, 65pts]: Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, Storm bolter

Company Veterans [8 PL, 151pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun
. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Power sword

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Space Marines) [22 PL, 459pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 169pts]: Assault cannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer

+ Fast Attack +

Bike Squad [5 PL, 134pts]
. Biker Sergeant: Combi-melta, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Meltagun, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Meltagun, Twin boltgun

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [29 PL, 430pts] ++

+ HQ +

Interrogator-Chaplain [5 PL, 92pts]: Plasma pistol, The Eye of the Unseen

Librarian [7 PL, 96pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword

Lieutenants [4 PL, 66pts]
. Lieutenant: Power maul, Storm bolter

+ Elites +

Company Veterans [8 PL, 87pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Combat shield, Power sword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Combat shield, Power sword
. Veteran Sergeant: Combat shield, Plasma pistol, Power fist

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 89pts]: Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [71 PL, 1249pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Hi,

I know this is not a very competitive list. it's actually more of a modelling project; I wanted a reason to field all the models I could assemble from the various boxes I got. Fluff wise, the idea is that the UM are temporarily fighting alongside a small DA force, which is operating in the same sector, pursuing its own secret goals... I really wanted a goon squad full of customizable characters that's why I chose DA. I'll definitely stick with the concept, so please no "get 3 dev squads instead..."

The general Idea is that the UM detachments provide a mid-field fire base. The dreadnought and the captain's power-fist are there as melee deterrents, while melta bikers hunt heavy tanks and monsters. I feel like the dreadnought and bikes both really profit from the UM chapter tactic, so I'm quite happy with these choices.

The DA squad is there to hunt down the biggest and meanest enemy model I can find, making use of the combination of -2 LD and mind wipe.

Now, I would like to know, if this is playable at all. I feel like I'm seriously lacking anti-infantry fire power. Also, I am thinking about dropping the heavy flamer on the dreadnought. That would allow me to give the dark angels vets 2 more plasma pistols and even give a storm bolter to the librarian. Right now the idea is that the the two extra vets just provide (relatively) cheap wounds, while the seargent has a chance to survive the first round of combat, making use of grim resolve and the pp the next round. What do you think?

Thanks!

Typed you a long ass reply and browser deleted it... will be back when I can face another 30mins at the computer...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
soooooo it did it again. I'll try again tomorrow.

Oh man, I hate it when that happens. Thanks though! I'd be delighted to read your post later.

Hey there friend.

This is Attempt 3 at leaving feedback on your list, so I’m typing this up in word and copy & pasting it over…. However, with several drafts and plenty of time to consider at least my feedback should be at its best?
So long story short… this list has problems dude. I’m sorry to say that, and for the next few minutes you may feel a little humbled by my review on your list? But fear not! I’m happy to help you re-write and structure a more usable, but ultimately still rewarding modelling project.


Problem 1) HQs. Yup, this list’s main issue starts right at the Top of the chain of command. You’re playing a 1250pts game and you’ve spent 526pts on Single model units! What? That’s mental! The dark angels alone bring an almost-acceptable-in-2kpts+ price tag of 254pts… before the ultramarines weigh in at a further 272pts. Almost half of your entire army is invested into a handful of support characters!! This tips your list from uncompetitive in even friendly metas, to utterly unplayable brother.


Problem 2) Board Control. Dude I know Grey Knights players bringing more than 26 models to a game this size? Custodes are laughing right now in high gothic… You’re gonna struggle to maintain any control of the board or objectives with so painfully few models on the battle-grid at this point level.


Problem 3) Range. Aside from the twin heavy bolter on the Razorback which weighs in at 36” reach, your entire army maxes out at 24” range or shorter. This means that effectively you’re wasting the first shooting phase or two of the game, just getting into position. With an army as small and elite as yours friend, most opponents will cripple you in these opening turns that your list cannot utilise properly. A skilled opponent may even wipe you from the board. With one transport for the DA “goon” squad, your characters have 5 tacticals as protection before they become eligible firing targets…


Problem 4) Anti-tank… specifically long-range anti-tank. I don’t see why you’re worried about anti-infantry fire. You have assault cannons, heavy flamers, bolters, twin boltguns, storm bolters, heavy bolters etc… you’ll be fine for small arms engagements at this points level. Anti-tank is where your list is failing, see also my point about lacking any sort of ranged threat. Consider the following:

4A) At 750pts, my Ultramarines bring 3 Razorbacks with twin assault cannons, each dedicated to 5 tactical marines. While semi-competitive, this isn’t a meta build in any way. Would your list be able to deal with mine? Right now, I doubt you’d have the resources to deal with even the lighter dedicated transports… which everyone and their grandma is bringing at this point level… protecting troops, affording mobility, sometimes as a threat in their own right… armour is present from about 750pts+.

4B) A mirror match… do you fancy your chances at killing a dreadnought and razorback with your current weapons options? I really feel this is the other aspect of the list which lets you down in even friendly games. Basically, if you come up against anything but foot bolter marine spam you’re in trouble as you have neither the numbers to weather the incoming fire nor redundancies in place to take acceptable losses.


Fortunately, this is where I stop kicking your list… and turn my attention to improvements and restructuring. If I were to start over, while utilising as much of the old list as I could, my go to would be something like this:
You said you wanted the ultramarines to control the midfield… so show your opponent that you mean business.
Captain & Lieutenant combo. Consider the chapter master upgrade strategem at the start of the game… remember with the adept of the codex warlord trait, on average this costs ultramarines 2CP instead of 3. Now fill out the castle with bodies to take and hold ground. I’d go for 3 5man tactical squads with combi-plasma and plasmagun, and maybe a power weapon on the Sgts to really buy into the space roman empire theme… as a modelling opportunity this is golden, 3rd party bits or forgeworld boarding shields would look the part here paired with the odd crested helm? -That’s a neat lil battalion. Feel free to upgrade the Capt and Lieut so long as their total value doesn’t exceed about 200pts at absolute maximum. Cheaper is better at this point level, and the free chainsword can be upgraded to the teeth of terra relic which was enough for my captain to recently take the head of Mephiston in a game against a childhood friend.

Reinforce the castle now; you’ve 17 bodies and some nice S7/8 firepower, 6 guns instead of 5, but this time every 2 plasmaguns has 3 marines to soak up firepower before you start losing models you’ve invested points into. -Add in the dreadnought. Let’s try him on Twin Lascannons though in place of the Assault cannon. He’s now got a longer reach, and the ability to hit twice at S9, AP-3 and D6 damage. We’ll keep the fist as an assault deterrent, and also in case someone gets close and you feel like punching something at strength high AP dead. If you’re short on points at the end you can swap the heavy flamer for a storm bolter under the fist but I’ll confess I like the flamer for clearing out hordes and the cruelty of auto-hitting S5 AP-1 overwatch. Depending on how expensive the dark angels end up being, I’d be forced to consider some high toughness armour… A predator would serve you well here in any and all variants according to your points budget. This would afford you some staying power and provide a real threat, while also drawing fire from the dreadnought and razorback.


The dark angels. So you’re looking to mindwipe and -2LD? Fine. Don’t really see the appeal but I’m not a DA player. Take the razorback exactly as you did last time, you did well to keep it cheap, ranged and volume of fire. Strongly approve.
I’d fill a patrol detachment. Librarian for mindwiping, Tactical Squad with Heavy Bolter and storm bolter. (Hellfire shells net you mortal wound output at 36" range, for 1CP, on a 10 point weapon. sign me the Scheiße up!)

Then the “goon” squad, 5 men strong. Keep 2 of them cheap and cheerful, maybe dual chainswords if you have the parts, nice modelling opportunity. These 2 die first so your tooled up veterans don’t have to before reaching combat. Outfit the company veterans however you see fit.
……
I hope this helps, in total I’ve probably spent over an hour thinking about and typing out multiple replies to your request that my browser wiped *distant sobbing*
Feel free to reply in this thread or DM me friend, hope you take this well, I don’t mean to be negative, and I’ve tried to outweigh the bad with my offerings and suggestions, but I can’t see your present iteration holding its own, at all.
GamerGuy

Hi there,

Thanks so much for your reply! I don't feel you are being negative at all, on the contrary, the serious thought you put into your message is much appreciated!

So....I did suspect that the list was too bogged down by characters and fancy stuff. The thing is, I got a rather wild mix of boxes and second hand models, which included a lot of characters and bitz 'n stuff, which is just perfect for making characters....But I went overboard so that I can't play this at all.

I'm not sure yet which direction to go, after taking in your advice. But if I read your post correctly the main problems are bodies (If even grey knights are a horde army in comparison to mine, i really do have a problem ) and long range firepower. I guess the best approach would be to turn the UM part into an actual Battalion. That would help a lot with both problems, though I think I will rather add scouts than more tacs. Secondly, I really like your idea on the predator. It's durable and adds reliable firepower. Would you go all lascannon or keep the autocannon? The only suggestion I don't like so much is the lascannons on the dreadnought. I feel like it's not a great mix of weapon systems, considering that I want to stay codex legal, so ML is not an option. Also my dread is second hand and came without the lascannons. The only long range option I have is the plasma cannon and I don't like the look of that at all, maybe in a devastor squad but not a single one on a dreadnought.

I'll have another go at it and post a revised list later when I have time, let's see, if I can improve this a bit.

Again, thanks so much for your reply! Stuff like this is why I like the hobby

P.S. I will remember to always type in word first, if I ever end up writing such a long post...yours is a cautionary tale!

No worries dude! Glad I could be of help! I also love the aspect of this hobby where complete strangers from the internet can support and assist one another over a mutual hobby -it's ace!

I started the hobby with a bunch of second hand steals from ebay, mostly job lots so I know the pain of character saturation... remember theres no shame in having very decorated sgts for tactical squads special weaponry such as power weapons, fists, hammers and claws have never been cheaper than in 8th, so feel free to tool up for rule of cool.

You took the important part away from my feedback, bodies and long range firepower are 2 rather large and exploitable achilles heels in this list. if you fix tose everything else will start to fall into place for you. -the battalion is a great way of dealing with this.

How about meeting me half way on troops? while Scouts are widely accepted to be the most competitve troops option in the codex, at 1250pts you may find the additional staying power and access to special and heavy weapons afforded by the tacticals invaluable. theres only so many targets for bolters/snipers at this point bracket, so i fear scouts may not always flourish until slightly larger games. I propose you split the difference and grab one more Tactical Squad and a Scout squad. Try for the heavy bolter in the tacticalk squad, trust me that's a nasty lil trick in lower value games.


Predator wise, I'd probably run Autocannon up top and Lascannon sponsons, as its cheaper and more consistent.


Dreadnought -fair enough, I'd be happy enough with assault cannon and fist! One thing of note; the missile launcher is a codex option in place of the fist, second bullet point under both dreadnought and venerable dreadnought listings, had to double check as your comment threw me but its definietly codex legal. your hatred of the plasma cannon on Dreadnoughts is understood friend, i wouldn't take one there either.

-You're welcome for the cautionary tale, I too learned me a lesson. and it's been a pleasure helping you out!
Hit me up if you need anything else?
GamerGuy

Hi,

So I worked on the list a bit and I'm much happier with it now. I ended up taking 2 tacs and 1 scout squad, and I completely dispensed with the plasma vets...they'll have to wait for bigger games. The predator will be the long range fire base, although I do see a problem in that it'll have to hang back when the rest of the battalion moves forward to capture objectives, thus leaving it outside of the re-roll bubbles. It's a bit of an inefficiency.

The DA squad is now much cheaper and more focused on being a dedicated close combat squad, though I had to add the apothecary to fill up the vanguard detachment. What do you think? Considering that one of the interrogator chaplain's selling points is having an extra wound, trying to keep his wounds up might be a good idea. I was unsure whether to take the librarian or the chaplain. I ended up taking the latter because i think he's a better fit in a melee oriented squad, although the librarian might be more useful over all.

It's still not competitive (it's not supposed to be), but I hope I'll have a better chance in friendly games now.

tim



++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [47 PL, 896pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power fist

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 67pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. 3x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

+ Elites +

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 169pts]: Assault cannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer

+ Fast Attack +

Bike Squad [5 PL, 134pts]
. Biker Sergeant: Combi-melta, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Meltagun, Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Meltagun, Twin boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [24 PL, 353pts] ++

+ HQ +

Interrogator-Chaplain [5 PL, 92pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Elites +

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Company Champion [3 PL, 44pts]: Combat shield

Company Veterans [8 PL, 73pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield
. Veteran Sergeant: Combat shield, Plasma pistol, Power maul

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 89pts]: Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [71 PL, 1249pts] ++