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Hello, having fun playing my tau, I am looking for advice on a competitive level. I know tau are not Elite Tier competitive, but its what I have and its what ill be taking to an upcoming tournament. There are a couple aspects of my list that i feel need an improvement but i dont know what is the most optimal choice. I have been playing dark Eldar/tyranids will be play testing vs heavy knights
I have 1650 of my 2000 figured out. i think that is uses the three detachmentcommander limit to its fullest
Tau sept 14 command points
Ethereal - warlord - through unity/ puretide engram
Shadowsun
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
Shield drones X 4
Shield drones X 4
Shield drones X 4
Coldstar 4 fusion
Fireblade
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
Things that this list needs 1 more anti tank. the riptide buffed by CNC is a monster. killing most everything that it looks at. But the other riptide struggles with being strength 6. Coldstars are fragile, they die whenever i commit them
2 need more table presence. as much as i would like/what tau excels at, i cannot Army wide castle up. I need to be on the map securing objectives for my self/ denying for my opponent
3 Need screening units for my coldstars. If my coldstars make it to late game im in a good position, with their mobilty and damage threat, need to keep them alive on the map
4 Physchic defense - IF ONLY. Physchic phase is important and i cannont contest.
Additions thinking im thinking about Darkstrider 15 firewarriors Melta Ghostkeel
Stealth Team and another riptide
Remove a Riptide add in Longstrike and hammerheads
Say F it and add in a stormsurge
If you are playing on boards with a lot of terrain, consider the target lock over ats on the tides. Getting -1 because you have to reposition can be rough.
Is Shadowsun here just to provide a second Kauyon? Just wondering as she is 50% more expensive than an enforcer with 3 burst cannons and a shield gen.
If you need more forward presence, a second unit of stealth suits could help but cannot contest objectives that enemy troops are holding.
One of my friends started to run a single devilfish do deliver 1 cadre and 10 fire warriors to a midfield objective quickly if needed. His list is similar to yours except he has 3 marksmen in a sacea vanguard for the marker rerolls and access to strats. His riptides are in one of the battalions.
Longstrike with hammerheads can be good for dedicated anti tank if you can make them fit. Broadsides are alright if used properly too.
Devilfish or stealth teams would be able to screen the coldstar for at least 1 turn.
StrikerTommy wrote: If you are playing on boards with a lot of terrain, consider the target lock over ats on the tides. Getting -1 because you have to reposition can be rough.
Is Shadowsun here just to provide a second Kauyon? Just wondering as she is 50% more expensive than an enforcer with 3 burst cannons and a shield gen.
If you need more forward presence, a second unit of stealth suits could help but cannot contest objectives that enemy troops are holding.
One of my friends started to run a single devilfish do deliver 1 cadre and 10 fire warriors to a midfield objective quickly if needed. His list is similar to yours except he has 3 marksmen in a sacea vanguard for the marker rerolls and access to strats. His riptides are in one of the battalions.
Longstrike with hammerheads can be good for dedicated anti tank if you can make them fit. Broadsides are alright if used properly too.
Devilfish or stealth teams would be able to screen the coldstar for at least 1 turn.
Shawdowsun is more there for the Command and control Node stratagem, making any suit reroll to wound Very nasty on a riptide rerolling 26 shots is insane. She rarely fires until turn 4. the 80 points is for the extra kauyon. which is worth it. if not running markerlight support
I like the idea of the sacea vanguard. reroll one die on that is Hilarioulsy strong ( never thought of that!) i will have to try that out! Devilfish tax is too high. i would rather have 16 more firewarriors that get there a turn later. I dont think i could put a devilfish in this style. Gone are the days where transports are troops.
I have run longstrike lists in the past very fun. but i odnt think they are as effective as a riptide in all cases. i would rather have one riptide with two shield drones than 2 hammerheads.( i just dont know if i want to go to three riptides or not) The lack of invul hurts and TAU and thier drones are one of the strongest mechanics in the game.
Broadsides dont do it for me man. i ahev run them and the dont perform how i need them to. (love the models)
Thanks for you input man, gave me some good ideas to play around with!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok so oddly enough, there was a small friday night fight at a LGS, it was set at 1650 10 people showed up. PLAYED VS A TAU! he had 3 riptides 60 firewarriors and pathfinders, no commanders very little drones. Gave me some perspecticve. My two riptides out fought his three. Pathfinders can be insane if you get first turn. Markerlight tax is real, but it got me thinking. i would rather have 10 pathfinders then 3 stealth suits. pathfinders can help me with my screening problem with my commanders ( to an extent).
So i made some changes. but i think it moves this list into the right direction. i added in more bodies. which i think this list lacked. same 14 command points
Ethereal - warlord - through unity/ puretide engram
Shadowsun -command uplink
darkstrider
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
Shield drones X 4
Shield drones X 4
Coldstar 4 fusion
Fireblade
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 9
firewarriors X 9 two shield drones
firewarriors X 9 two sheild drones
Pathfinder X 5 Pulse accelerator drone
Pathfinder X 5 Pulse accelerator drone
What im going to be working on/playtesting. Im going to use montka in half my games. unless is is an army with insane reach i will use montka and see how it goes ( i think haveing my castle advance and fire without penalty setting up in the middle of the board daring opponents to charge will be a blast) shawdow sun is 90 points more than a bare buffmander. That does raise an eyebrow i could do alot with 90 points. i would be running markerlight support so her need is not as strong ( will be playesting that!) Will also be considering target lock, but if i plan on montka i wont need. im actually likeing adding in the pathfinders bc i think it adds a need to kill infantry unit due to markerlight support, and access to the pulse accelerator drone. adding that little bit of distance will help. . A greater threat than my units of firewarrios, who will contest the objectives better (they just need to stay alive and get there. With variations of this list i always prefered to go second. i like the versitilry of this list where i think im ok with going first or second. What do you think about the drones in the firewarriors. I think units of one shield drone is Very NASTY. so I took 4 units of one drone to try it out. that makes 8 NEED TO KILL infantry units and one big ole distraction ghostkeel. Hopefully they will relieve some pressure from my firewarriors and my commanders.
Thanks for your time and advice
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 22:31:31
a simple fix is to give warlord and the relic to the fireblade instead of the ethereal. It's a tougher frame in case your opponent randomly snipers or something.
Also i'm using Longstrike myself. I really like it thus far. It outranges a lot of stuff, so it's not that hard to keep safe imo. Though you might want more infantry to screen for it i like using kroot for that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/17 00:46:29
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
Glad you got some mileage out of the advice so far. I haven't heard good things about ghostkeels this edition, but I also don't have any to try myself. I like the number of bodies you are running now, fire warriors get mean at rapid range with accelerators.
3 riptides is too many i think. It might look good on paper but cnc and overcharged reactor only work on 1 per turn. Having so many bodies lets you pepper infantry that the riptides might want to waste shots on, like ork boyz or cultists. Fair points about the broadsides and devilfish--they aren't exactly efficient. Stealth teams still might be better than ghostkeel for board prescence and being speed bumps, but if you don't like them don't worry about it.
footfoe wrote: a simple fix is to give warlord and the relic to the fireblade instead of the ethereal. It's a tougher frame in case your opponent randomly snipers or something.
Also i'm using Longstrike myself. I really like it thus far. It outranges a lot of stuff, so it's not that hard to keep safe imo. Though you might want more infantry to screen for it i like using kroot for that.
Very good advice for using a fireblade. Will have to change up my warlord if they have lots of sniper/target characters. They are up a lot further and are in the thick of the fighting, like to use my ethereal as warlord. if my opponent get to my ethereal I have already lost anyway. I normally have my shawdowsun and ethereal inbetween the two riptides and then sandwiched the other way by drones and fire warriors usually keeping them safe.
Love longstrike. Put hammerheads into 'useable' category. I think he get out classed by a riptide. not entirely due to the damage output. but due to the fact that longstrike doesn't have an invul and dies very quick. I do have to say he is very good for tau's anti air or vs alaitoc. When compared to a 2+/5++/6+++ with drone support he just get outclassed in the same role. I feel like I need units that fulfill different roles then castle up and shoot.
Thanks though will use the fireblade as warlord, I think that is a very good idea.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
StrikerTommy wrote: Glad you got some mileage out of the advice so far. I haven't heard good things about ghostkeels this edition, but I also don't have any to try myself. I like the number of bodies you are running now, fire warriors get mean at rapid range with accelerators.
3 riptides is too many i think. It might look good on paper but cnc and overcharged reactor only work on 1 per turn. Having so many bodies lets you pepper infantry that the riptides might want to waste shots on, like ork boyz or cultists. Fair points about the broadsides and devilfish--they aren't exactly efficient. Stealth teams still might be better than ghostkeel for board prescence and being speed bumps, but if you don't like them don't worry about it.
Ghostkeels are hit or miss that's forsure. It may sound foolish taking this unit, but I feel like if fills a role in my army. It can infiltrate giving me map presence and board control if it needs to. It acts as a distraction carnifex. "oh that thing has a bunch of melta and can move 12 I need to kill it!" hopefully to relieve some pressure off my riptides. -2 to hit and 3+/4++ with drone support Makes it very tanky (have had games vs guard where they fire everything at the ghostkeel and cant kill it !). the drones themselves take pressure off my firewarriors.bc they are a need to kill infantry unit. it can also screen for my commanders, if I don't have to worry about flyers all have to do I block the front of the commanders and they can only target the ghost keel anyway.
Stealth teams don't do it for me. the no obsec HURTS and they are not strong enough to push units off an objective (they did sniper a warlock once bc my opponent forgot they were there lol). I don't think I ever want speed bumps. if they are going to charge me. they need to charge my castle that way I can spread the word of the greater good as much as I can! ( I interweave units of place them in the middle of both riptides making sure I can overwatch with at least one riptide if they charge any of my firewarriors. I want my opponents to charge. my units can fallback and still shoot due to fly and darkstrider. I like the idea of them, and I may be going backwards taking pathfinders instead but I think they can fill the role better.
I agree with the 3 riptide being too much. I don't branch nova charge until my drones are dead. trying to save command points. I have never lost a riptide turn one. I just wasn't impressed when I ran three. not enough anti tank. or they get countered by min squad sizes. 5 man units are hell if you have to shoot at them with a riptide
In the lists of the past, i have always relied on the riptides carrying the heavy burden of carrying my army. CNC riptide kills anything it looks at. and with this style of play, i have been mainly trying to cripple my opponent and hope i can out score them. Now i think with so much obsec and bodies i will try to out control my opponent. Im going to be brave, not castle up. Im going to go to the middle of the board each game (during practice) and see how it plays out for me. This has got me very excited to play my next tau game bc i feel like it will be a completly new experience of how to run this army. (which has gotten stale for me). i think this style change will make me a better player by playing the mission more and focus less on killing my opponent.(Ex my non buffed riptide used to always target another tank like unit and deal half damage. i think i will be focusing more on anti infantry making my firewarriors more likely to live and control the game longer.)
Thanks for the input man
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/17 14:33:39
I don't think you have to compare riptides to hammerheads. They fit a pretty different role, hammerheads are more for dealing with heavy vehicles. It's perfectly fine to bring both.
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
footfoe wrote: I don't think you have to compare riptides to hammerheads. They fit a pretty different role, hammerheads are more for dealing with heavy vehicles. It's perfectly fine to bring both.
Why wouldn't I? A riptide with a hbc nova charged does fulfill an anti tank role. especially when combined with the CNC stratagem. I think they fulfill the same function, meaning it sits in your castle and shoots, I understand that, that's what tau does. but in ITC you need to be on the map and not just sit back and shoot. They are very similar in the roll that they fill. Not just the units that the wish to fire at. Or as a anti tank or anti infantry role.
I do think that hammerheads are a better anti air, just bc of their increased ballistics skill. their shot variation, no invul, NO FOR THE GREATER GOOD all hurt them when compared to a riptide.
Thoughts on a ghostkeel compared to a hammerhead?
I agree it is perfectly fine to bring both. im just trying to explain/figure out what are the best choices in my opinion.
I have a similar list aimed at competitive where i use broadsides for Shadowsuns CnC.
My thoughts are the following:
Ghostkeels are not worth it, points to firepower is so so.
Hammerheads (ION) are nice while Longstrike is alive, but in total they are pretty hard to keep alive.
Our troops are good but as many may point out will offer up points too easy if massed.
Riptides, Broadsides and Shield Drones work well together and is possibly our most reliable output of firepower we have combined with many ways of buffing and protecting.
X078 wrote: I have a similar list aimed at competitive where i use broadsides for Shadowsuns CnC.
My thoughts are the following:
Ghostkeels are not worth it, points to firepower is so so.
Hammerheads (ION) are nice while Longstrike is alive, but in total they are pretty hard to keep alive.
Our troops are good but as many may point out will offer up points too easy if massed.
Riptides, Broadsides and Shield Drones work well together and is possibly our most reliable output of firepower we have combined with many ways of buffing and protecting.
Hey man, thanks for your input, it has given me something to consider.
Ghostkeels are not ment to be primary damage dealers, leave that task to the commanders and riptides. The ghostkeel is hit or miss forsure, but I have had some good games where he will survives a whole turn of shooting. HIs job is to be on the map, being durable/ have some kind of melta threat. making you opponent have to play around them.
I agree its impossible to have hammerheads survive past turn 3. opponents focus longstrike first and then they just get shot off the table.
Having many troop units allow for your opponent to get some easy kills that is true. but I think I need a way to compete vs bad matchups that tau have. (ksons/knights/alaitoc) where I can play more to win the objects rather than Killing my opponent. having small units that act independently of my castle don't die to morale or if my opponent focuses them, they have to waste firepower killing such a cheap unit. Very true I have many kill points where I think the first turns I will be out killed most of the time.
Riptides and drones are very durable and makes your opponent jump through hoops to kill them. I disagree with broadsides, I think commanders are more efficient. that being said YOU HAVE SO MANY SMS. 48 ignore LOS shots rerolling! NO army can hide from you! Do you take them one unit of three or three units of one? makes sense for the unit of one, I think you wrote it wrong?
27 sheild drones! HOLY SHEET MAN. that is some defense. i dont normally take such large units of drones bc of their low morale (just had to look up if they are buffed by ethereals they are lol) buti also take smaller units to make my opponent waste firepower to kill them. i have not lost a riptide turn one with 12 drones. Do you even lose a riptide with 27? lol
I like the sacea marksmen. but i gotta ask does markerlight support add much to your army if you are running shadowsun? i have found that it does little. (taking pathfinders for pulse accelerator drones lmao). if i get first turn i can remove cover due to prepare positions from 2-3 units but when tau run out of cps all you are looking for are rerolls of 1
I like your list. I think that it has alot more firepower and is a stonger list offensively/defensively but i think it can be out played/out ranged. How do your games play out? how do you do to score primaries? i think you have an army wide castle and plays that way.
Defenitley something to consider, i just think i dont want to play that way, gets boring after a while. i think with progessive scoring need mobility.
X078 wrote: I have a similar list aimed at competitive where i use broadsides for Shadowsuns CnC.
My thoughts are the following:
Ghostkeels are not worth it, points to firepower is so so.
Hammerheads (ION) are nice while Longstrike is alive, but in total they are pretty hard to keep alive.
Our troops are good but as many may point out will offer up points too easy if massed.
Riptides, Broadsides and Shield Drones work well together and is possibly our most reliable output of firepower we have combined with many ways of buffing and protecting.
Hey man, thanks for your input, it has given me something to consider.
Ghostkeels are not ment to be primary damage dealers, leave that task to the commanders and riptides. The ghostkeel is hit or miss forsure, but I have had some good games where he will survives a whole turn of shooting. HIs job is to be on the map, being durable/ have some kind of melta threat. making you opponent have to play around them.
I agree its impossible to have hammerheads survive past turn 3. opponents focus longstrike first and then they just get shot off the table.
Having many troop units allow for your opponent to get some easy kills that is true. but I think I need a way to compete vs bad matchups that tau have. (ksons/knights/alaitoc) where I can play more to win the objects rather than Killing my opponent. having small units that act independently of my castle don't die to morale or if my opponent focuses them, they have to waste firepower killing such a cheap unit. Very true I have many kill points where I think the first turns I will be out killed most of the time.
Riptides and drones are very durable and makes your opponent jump through hoops to kill them. I disagree with broadsides, I think commanders are more efficient. that being said YOU HAVE SO MANY SMS. 48 ignore LOS shots rerolling! NO army can hide from you! Do you take them one unit of three or three units of one? makes sense for the unit of one, I think you wrote it wrong?
27 sheild drones! HOLY SHEET MAN. that is some defense. i dont normally take such large units of drones bc of their low morale (just had to look up if they are buffed by ethereals they are lol) buti also take smaller units to make my opponent waste firepower to kill them. i have not lost a riptide turn one with 12 drones. Do you even lose a riptide with 27? lol
I like the sacea marksmen. but i gotta ask does markerlight support add much to your army if you are running shadowsun? i have found that it does little. (taking pathfinders for pulse accelerator drones lmao). if i get first turn i can remove cover due to prepare positions from 2-3 units but when tau run out of cps all you are looking for are rerolls of 1
I like your list. I think that it has alot more firepower and is a stonger list offensively/defensively but i think it can be out played/out ranged. How do your games play out? how do you do to score primaries? i think you have an army wide castle and plays that way.
Defenitley something to consider, i just think i dont want to play that way, gets boring after a while. i think with progessive scoring need mobility.
Sorry yeah broadsides are one unit of 3 for CnC and Shadowsuns drone after that. Broadsides and Riptides will share Shield Drones as much as possible.
I don't really "need" the Markerlights due to weight of fire but i find they do help especially together with the different ML stratagems and after the 2nd Kauyon. They are always useful in some way for the points spent, if not just for drawing fire from opponents who think i rely on them. I normally just park them and the FW in hiding on home objectives or something within range.
Like you said this is a Castle list, i find that the really mobile lists beat me in the mobile department anyway so i just shoot them instead of trying to out-mobile them. FW might move out and try to take an obj sometimes but usually screens the suits or sits on obj. Riptides can move after 2nd turn if needed. I usually deploy forward quite aggressively and if i face long range guns i sometimes do a Mont'ka before the Kauyon to get in range which usually does the trick.
Going to a RTT with about a 20-30 turnout tomorrow. This is a practice tournament for a larger one (about 100) in November.
I also deploy quite aggressively, 36 range on the riptides can be played around.
i have also been finding that when running shadowsun, you do not rely on markerlights as much. Now im not taking marksmen bc i want my opponent to shoot at my pathfinders (rather than my firewarriors), and bc they cant target my marksmen due to characters.. they give access to pulse accelerators and provide a bit of alpha strike.
there are many small infantry units that my opponent need to kill (accelerator/shield drones/pathfinders/stealth drone) or the buffs from them will impact as the game goes on.
I have high hopes, always try to get top 50%. will give details of tournament
ok so results. out of 18 people I took 5th. very pleased with how I did. went 2-1 top list was a castellan guard list with guilliman??? didn't face him. but faced a castellan every game I went into. ignored it. until late game. the game I lost I felt like it was my mistakes that lost the one of the game ( my opponent an knight guard player ignored the riptides kill the firewarriors rocked invul saves), had a great time. i went first every game, wtff??
The only final changes I took where splitting up another shield drones unit into firewarriors squads. pathfinders were insane. ignored cover on 2 key targets every turn 1. ran list like I wanted it too.
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5
Shield drones X 4
Coldstar 4 fusion
Fireblade
firewarriors X 5
firewarriors X 5 two shield drones
firewarriors X 9 two shield drones
firewarriors X 9 two shield drones
firewarriors X 9 two sheild drones
I would take this list again, I had a great time with it. the decision making was rewarding and I was able to be aggressive with my castle and utilize their midrange firepower. the only the small change I would like to make is changing back the shield drones to units of 4. it was very difficult to place my firewarrior unit in the fgg bubble and hide the drones. the game I lost. it was vs a mainly all knight army, my opponent saw the many different units of drones and ignored them, focused on killing my firewarriors turns 1 and 2 which did make it difficult to contest objectives (very wp by him) I might hide a unit of drones in reserve for the commanders.
Winners of the list
pathfinders- giving access to the pulse accelerator drone was a very noticeable distance increase. they were also able to follow up and markerlight effectively (every time I went first) gave me a good alpha strike.
Darkstrider- fall back and still shoot matters. the plus 1 to wound combinded with TUD was a cool combo. accurate markerlight is a perk!
shadow sun- monkta first is insane. advance (think of the coldstars!) with no penalty with makerlight support (hitting on 3s rerolling 1s) very good. better than a kauyon in the first place bc of the weird ways modifiers work with rerolls. command uplink drone also played a roll. it was a safety net to start up my markerlights was worth the 6 points and it soaks up damage.
Ghostkeel- in the two games I won it successfully screened my commanders, the game I lost I played it wrong but it did its role in how/what I thought it could do! it tanks it provides FGG support and is an anti tank threat than can sit on obj and survive.
Losers of the list
Commanders-they need support and they are hit or miss vs knights but I think they are taus best option vs them. they flubbed a couple of times. but they did come in clutch. the only reason they are in the loser spot is bc I made one mistake committed them and they flubbed to kill meaning they were instantly dead the next turn
So I took this list again. Went to a smaller RTT a buddy was hosting. Took the same list. was going into the game with the practice in mind to montka more. I monkta'ed every first turn (would recommend) whether I went first or second. I also held my kauyon for turn 3 turn 4 which felt right to do at the time and worked out great. every game I had two goals. try to out score your opponent by holding more objectives. and keep the commanders screened alive and shooting as long as possible. missions were 1 2 and 3 respectively i went second every game. rather than the other tournament i went first every game how weird . . . .
game 1 Faced versus a chaos army (not very competitive) only got to turn 3 which was a bummer. he killed most of my firewarriors and drones, which was surprising, commanders whiffed but full tier riptides cleaned up major threats.
game 2 Tau vs Tau this game was really close. tau vs borkan. he was running a stormsurge 3 riptide 2 hbc 2 fusion coldstars. he went first. killed both my riptides by turn 2. pressure was on, my turn 1 on montkaed and held the middle obj and killed a riptide. my turn two i killed his storm surge and screened my coldstars more. i baited my ethereal (not very screened in the rear) he committed his coldstars and lost them on my next turn. he couldn't get though all the small infantry squads. and lost a riptide a turn from melta. (VERY FUN VERY CLOSE thought i lost the whole time) i had to teach him the ways of tau. made many mistakes forgot to do a bunch of order of operations. (he didn't know about cnc and was playing without using it)
game three vs renegade knights and death guard. he was running a crusader with double melta a castellean and a armiger, pox walkers terminators and sorcerers. he went first failed to do kill much than drones and pathfinders. i killed a armiger and put a crusader to one wound, monkta forward claiming 4 of 5 objectives . whiffes with damaged melta crusader. castellean killed a firewarrior squad the ghostkeel and a drone squad. he charged losing his crusader and 300 points of poxwalkers and terminators. not making it though my second screen of firewarriors. my turn 2 i kauyon. commit coldstars and kill a castellan in a singe turn (he only had a 4++)! game over. this devil worshipper, couldn't have let me have my victory. he had to ensure to kill a commander before the game was out, ruining my perfect day on my commanders. ( he didn't know about my goal, is a good guy and was a good game he was just trying to get one more point which was fair enough)
I ended up winning the tournament out of 10 people. coldstars are hit or miss. but with using monkta (and planning to do that those commanders just need a 1 of markerlight support) montka with coldaradvance is insane) every turn one they were very easy to screen (i was just putting them on the edge of 18 to shoot thier targets rather than 9) there were no support key characters that i needed to snipe. ghostkeel was a distraction carifex. was amazing at screening and soaking up damage was able to postition it in the front to make them have to charge the ghostkeel. rip tides do riptides things CNC plus focus fire both riptides were pumping out about 8 wounds a turn vs knights which i think is average! i then was able to commit my meltas or my fire warriors to secure the kill, pathfinders were great! pulse accelerator drone is very much helpful. Darkstrider with TUD and focus fire (meaning 4+ to wound is -1) is insane! i had a squad of firewarriors do 14 wounds to a crusader (WTF) 5 went through but like wow. sheild drones were able to hide and did their jobs as best as they could. Fire warrios being the secret anchor of the list. put in work today! Today was a day were i can say i played my infantry right. they are very threatening and very cheap. shadow sun is worth her points. the extra umph that she gives to the army is very noticeable. and i dont feel bad using her as a buffmander for that reason. . i am starting to think that the ethereal is worth is points forsure, but i dont think the sense of stone is an auto commit to every time. the leadership aura is very helpful.
Going to go keep using this list. very rewarding to play. the killing blow is real.
