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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Had to do a roll off over this issue in a game this weekend. A single model being attacked by a large unit. The large unit had completely wrapped around the single model (in this case it was a rhino) so that at only one point was there a gap and the gap was less than 2 inches. In the movement rules it states that a unit cannot move within 1" of an any unit In The Movement Phase. Fall Back occurs in the movement phase, so my interpretation was that you cannot fall back is a portion of your move would take you within 1". The other player felt the rule only applied when you finished, and fall back was a special case. We are not a group that bothers hashing it out then (we rolled off).
You can see the importance, as the transport still held a unit. (Base sizes and multiple ranks on the surrounded unit meant there was no way to get anyone out and NOT be within 1" of enemy models)

Is that the rules? A surrounded model cannot fall back (unless it has fly or something that allows it to ignore models while moving).

Clearly I think the within 1" must apply for entire movement in the movement phase or else you could simply walk your models through enemy units and end farther than an inch away.

(sorry if this is like the 57th time someone has brought this up)

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






Your interpretation is absolutely correct and forms a large part of tactical assault based play in 40k. Check out "tri pointing" and prepare to be amazed.

E - grammar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/28 23:04:25


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

When you Fall Back you *have to* be able to move within 1” of the enemy, as you’re starting there. You must finish your move more than 1” away, and obviously can only move through gaps between models, not through models.

A 2” gap isn’t big enough to drive a Rhino through though, so feels like a moot point?

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






As An Actual Englishman said, this is perfectly legal. A model that cannot FLY cannot ignore other models when moving (including falling back). That means if the model cannot physically move though a gap/past wrapping models, it can't move at all.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Thanks guys. the opposing view was mostly based on the "I start within an inch, so clearly I can move within an inch" logic.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






edwardmyst wrote:
Thanks guys. the opposing view was mostly based on the "I start within an inch, so clearly I can move within an inch" logic.
That isn't what stops you falling back. Falling Back gives permission for you to move within 1" (otherwise you could never fall back) but it doesn't let you END the move within 1" nor does it let you move over other models. If a model is surrounded in such a way that it can't fit though the gaps of enemies, then it can't fall back.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From Stepping Into a New Edition of Warhammer 40,000:

Q: Can units move within 1" of enemy models whilst Falling Back?

A: Yes, but they must end their move more than 1" from all enemy models.

Remember though that they cannot move ‘through’ other models.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Seems definitive, Ghaz. So does that within 1" means your base can be within 1" while moving, but you still must have an open gap your base will fit through without touching an enemy? OR just move the model and don't stop within 1"? I think you still need the gap, so if my models are less than 32mm apart say, a model on a 32mm base could not fall back.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






edwardmyst wrote:
Seems definitive, Ghaz. So does that within 1" means your base can be within 1" while moving, but you still must have an open gap your base will fit through without touching an enemy? OR just move the model and don't stop within 1"? I think you still need the gap, so if my models are less than 32mm apart say, a model on a 32mm base could not fall back.
Yes, you still need the gap.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

edwardmyst wrote:
Seems definitive, Ghaz. So does that within 1" means your base can be within 1" while moving, but you still must have an open gap your base will fit through without touching an enemy? OR just move the model and don't stop within 1"? I think you still need the gap, so if my models are less than 32mm apart say, a model on a 32mm base could not fall back.

Covered in the last line that I quoted that says that you can't move 'through' other models.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Ghaz wrote:

Covered in the last line that I quoted that says that you can't move 'through' other models.


Yep, and just in case op needs a reference:
page 177 of the 8th edition rule book, Core Rules, 1. Movement Phase, paragraph Movement wrote:
It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery.

Note that enemy models are not scenery.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Just check that the model in question doesn't have a special rule to ignore models when moving or falling back. Or Fly.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Does this apply to Knights? In a tournament I was in the T.O. ruled that the knights couldn't be tri-pointed because knights. Did the T.O. error?
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 JimOnMars wrote:
Does this apply to Knights? In a tournament I was in the T.O. ruled that the knights couldn't be tri-pointed because knights. Did the T.O. error?
It depends. Was the Knight Tripointed by BIKER models or by INFANTRY/SWARM models? Knights have the Super-heavy Walker rule that lets them ignore INFANTRY and SWARM models when falling back, but not anything else.

If he was tri-pointed by Infantry, the TO was correct. If he was tri-pointed by non-INFANTRY, non-SWARM models, then the TO was wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/09 20:37:53


 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Infantry. Will swarm with trukks next time.
   
 
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