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So looks like index astartes is making a return, I wonder if this will be the angels of death style supplement that adds a bunch of models to the primaris line, or if it will be some fluff thing,

https://www.miniwars.eu/2018/12/proximo-mes-en-la-white-dwarf.html

What was the name of the old RT/2nd ed. style articles on random Space Marine chapters? I believe it was Index Astartes.

My guess is that you'll get monthly articles for random distant chapters, providing a trait, maybe a few stratagems, warlord traits and relics. I mean, that doesn't take but a few pages and would provide a lot more options for marine players (likely stronger options than exist in the codex). So basically, if that style of article returns you'll have stuff like Brazen Claws, and Mentor Legion getting mini-articles for people wanting to run them.

Could be very cool (particularly if this was eventually gathered into a decent book).

EDIT: Yes, the articles were called Index Astartes (at least back in the early White Dwarf magazines) and the one I glanced at was basically six pages of background, some unique units and equipment etc.

Hmm. So is WD returning to being a useful thing?

Neat thanks for the info Elbows.

Background articles and an opportunity to buy even more kits to kitbash and represent them. No rules, or Open Play only.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
... or Open Play only.

We have a winner everyone !

Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Maybe an Imperial Fist bit and then

Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Ultras, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Ultras, Space Wolves, Dark Angels. repeated ad neasuem

Maybe the odd other Chapter but they are obessed with the snowflakes

Sadly also expecting reprints of the old back story for ............the snowfalkes

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Well the rules say you can't use open stuff in matched play games. May as well start using FW without asking or using pre errata rules, or some other crazy thing.

Depends. IA has meant several things over the years. In 3rd it was a White Dwarf series that gave each founding chapter (including traitors) their special rules; this is where the thing like Iron Warriors dropping Fast Attack for Heavy Support and taking Vindicators (or Basilisk!) came from before the 3.5 codex.

I think it was also the name of a compilation of rules articles as well. For example, I think the 3.5/4th edition assault rules were in an Index Astartes book as recommended updated rules.

What I'm hoping for is it's a way for them to reprint/update datasheets and rules without having to redo an entire Codex. So something like Chapter Approved, but with datasheet updates rather than points. An actual errata/patch to the game, as it were. Maybe even a .5 update.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Well the rules say you can't use open stuff in matched play games. May as well start using FW without asking or using pre errata rules, or some other crazy thing.

To be fair the only reason for this is because open stuff usually doesn't have a points value, and people are unwilling to set their own.

Karol,

There is a shocking way this works. Read carefully.

Player A: "Hey man, I created this captain using the chapter approved rules. Is it cool if I use him? Here are his stats."
Player B: "Cool."

You generate his cost with Power Level x20 = point cost. Boom. Done.

And that only applies to the things which GW actually states are Open Play. If you play in a non-tournament environment where you would struggle to ask someone to use something like that...I genuinely pity you. As it stands, Index Astartes is most likely not going to be Open Play only, particularly since the articles could easily be akin to the specialist detachments, and simply offer additional chapters for your Marine players.

This is 40k, people with matched lists can't force you to fight their army after wandering through some tall grass; everything requires opponent approval. Relegating it to open play/worrying about it being open play only is silly if you do anything besides tournament games where any sane opponent should be completely fine with anything that you clearly inform them of before-hand, like any other game of pickup.

What I don't get is the point of this system at all when it achieves gak-all. We can easily come up with homebrew character rules in 40k's rules as it's one of the easiest homebrew exercises to engage in (and not hard to balance either since everything is just a variation on a base statline). Anything besides a comprehensive point system allowing you to trick out anybody with wargear is a useless gesture of false goodwill to the community.

"Look, you can upgrade the stats of your Primaris Captain, we love you guys so much!"

"Can I convert my Primaris Captain to have lightning claws?"

"Don't be absurd! Next thing you know people will be asking for power lances!"

"Not suitable for matched play" is really just code for "not suitable for games with strangers". You can do whatever the hell you want if your friends agree with it, using points, power level, or just slapping stuff on the table. Matched play rules are the rules that people who have never played with each other both (ideally) understand and accept without further conversation about how such and such works or what off the cuff wargear such and such is equipped with.

 Wyzilla wrote:
This is 40k, people with matched lists can't force you to fight their army after wandering through some tall grass; everything requires opponent approval. Relegating it to open play/worrying about it being open play only is silly if you do anything besides tournament games where any sane opponent should be completely fine with anything that you clearly inform them of before-hand, like any other game of pickup.

What I don't get is the point of this system at all when it achieves gak-all. We can easily come up with homebrew character rules in 40k's rules as it's one of the easiest homebrew exercises to engage in (and not hard to balance either since everything is just a variation on a base statline). Anything besides a comprehensive point system allowing you to trick out anybody with wargear is a useless gesture of false goodwill to the community.

"Look, you can upgrade the stats of your Primaris Captain, we love you guys so much!"

"Can I convert my Primaris Captain to have lightning claws?"

"Don't be absurd! Next thing you know people will be asking for power lances!"

There's no need for additional rules for this because if you're already in "do whatever the hell you want" territory you already have points values for a Primaris Captain with a lightning claw, it's in the back of the codex. The special rules and unique abilities they're introducing in Chapter Approved have no particular precedent, they add a lot more to that type of play than just reprinting points values.

Karol wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Well the rules say you can't use open stuff in matched play games. May as well start using FW without asking or using pre errata rules, or some other crazy thing.

I use FW all the time without asking. Considering my entire army is it. How is that crazy?

Sir Heckington wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Well the rules say you can't use open stuff in matched play games. May as well start using FW without asking or using pre errata rules, or some other crazy thing.

I use FW all the time without asking. Considering my entire army is it. How is that crazy?

As a general rule, it isn't, but I believe Karol's meta in Poland has... issues with Forge World, for some reason.

Sir Heckington wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Well the rules say you can't use open stuff in matched play games. May as well start using FW without asking or using pre errata rules, or some other crazy thing.

I use FW all the time without asking. Considering my entire army is it. How is that crazy?

If your opponent has no problem with it, then nothing at all is wrong with it. But if random stranger xyz in the LGS says "no thanks, I don't like Forge World" then you can't exactly be surprised.

Karol wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be fair though...if you think Open Play only...actually means only Open Play, you have zero imagination or you only play in tournaments. I'm so tired of seeing people whinge about this.

Use the fething things in your matched play games. No one is stopping you.

Well the rules say you can't use open stuff in matched play games. May as well start using FW without asking or using pre errata rules, or some other crazy thing.

I don't need your permission to run FW anymore than you need my permission to use Gaunts in your Tyranids army.

Forge World is so insanely overpriced now in Matched Play anyway it's almost a detriment to use them.

You don't need your opponents permission to use a unit just as equally as your opponent can not be happy with that and decline to have a game - find someone like minded and it's never an issue.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
You don't need your opponents permission to use a unit just as equally as your opponent can not be happy with that and decline to have a game - find someone like minded and it's never an issue.

Same way you can not be happy with your opponent playing termagants if you think they are too wack, and decline that game too. Nobody is forcing you to play this game with anybody. One choice just makes you a bit of a whiner who dodges matches with anyone not playing the game by your personal subjective limitations. That's all there is to it

 SHUPPET wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
You don't need your opponents permission to use a unit just as equally as your opponent can not be happy with that and decline to have a game - find someone like minded and it's never an issue.

Same way you can not be happy with your opponent playing termagants if you think they are too wack, and decline that game too. Nobody is forcing you to play this game with anybody. One choice just makes you a bit of a whiner who dodges matches with anyone not playing the game by your personal subjective limitations. That's all there is to it

.. that's my point

Like I said, find someone like minded to play against and it's never an issue.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
You don't need your opponents permission to use a unit just as equally as your opponent can not be happy with that and decline to have a game - find someone like minded and it's never an issue.

Same way you can not be happy with your opponent playing termagants if you think they are too wack, and decline that game too. Nobody is forcing you to play this game with anybody. One choice just makes you a bit of a whiner who dodges matches with anyone not playing the game by your personal subjective limitations. That's all there is to it

.. that's my point

Like I said, find someone like minded to play against and it's never an issue.

Yup, that's my point too, just expanding.

NurglesR0T wrote:Like I said, find someone like minded to play against and it's never an issue.

SHUPPET wrote:
Yup, that's my point too, just expanding.

I agree with both of you, that anyone can ‘not like’ playing against anything. One person might not want to play your DKoK or your Astraeus tank, another might not want to play your Knight army. Bad matchups exist, and it’s not ‘dodging a game’ if you don’t think you’ll have a fun game. Anyone can refuse anything at all.

But that’s a different thing to the whole ‘no FW’ some groups have. The prevailing notion (in some groups) that FW is inherently less fair, or broken or something is about ten years out of date now. That’s what a blanket statement like ‘asking to use FW refers to’ - the idea that just because it is a FW model it’s somehow more optional than a plastic GW one. That’s rubbish.

Is FW hate even still a thing? I haven't run into anyone having an issue with FW stuff in nearly 5 years.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

NurglesR0T wrote:Like I said, find someone like minded to play against and it's never an issue.

SHUPPET wrote:
Yup, that's my point too, just expanding.

I agree with both of you, that anyone can ‘not like’ playing against anything. One person might not want to play your DKoK or your Astraeus tank, another might not want to play your Knight army. Bad matchups exist, and it’s not ‘dodging a game’ if you don’t think you’ll have a fun game. Anyone can refuse anything at all.

yeah, I totally agree with this, I think it is perfectly fine in a non-tournament setting to decline matchups. Since the primary goal in casual games is both players have fun.... So if rando at the game store doesn't want to play against my all knights army, because his army does not have anti-tank in it, then fine. It wouldn't be fun for either of us to have a onesided game.

And for people who know each other, it's also perfectly fine to discuss before hand what list each person should bring... I have even done it in casual tourney prep games back in when I was more competitive "Ie hey can you bring this meta list that I know I will see a lot of in the upcoming tourney? I want to practice against it"

Flamephoenix182 wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

NurglesR0T wrote:Like I said, find someone like minded to play against and it's never an issue.

SHUPPET wrote:
Yup, that's my point too, just expanding.

I agree with both of you, that anyone can ‘not like’ playing against anything. One person might not want to play your DKoK or your Astraeus tank, another might not want to play your Knight army. Bad matchups exist, and it’s not ‘dodging a game’ if you don’t think you’ll have a fun game. Anyone can refuse anything at all.

yeah, I totally agree with this, I think it is perfectly fine in a non-tournament setting to decline matchups. Since the primary goal in casual games is both players have fun.... So if rando at the game store doesn't want to play against my all knights army, because his army does not have anti-tank in it, then fine. It wouldn't be fun for either of us to have a onesided game.

And for people who know each other, it's also perfectly fine to discuss before hand what list each person should bring... I have even done it in casual tourney prep games back in when I was more competitive "Ie hey can you bring this meta list that I know I will see a lot of in the upcoming tourney? I want to practice against it"

Yep absolutely. Agreed

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
And for people who know each other, it's also perfectly fine to discuss before hand what list each person should bring... I have even done it in casual tourney prep games back in when I was more competitive "Ie hey can you bring this meta list that I know I will see a lot of in the upcoming tourney? I want to practice against it"

Agreed. Our club organise games mostly over a Facebook group, and the semi-unspoken rule is that it’s fine to play competitive armies or scary big models but you should say so when you post. Otherwise it’s assumed that we’re friendly fun games and nobody is trying out anything too cheesy. It works pretty well. People wanting to try out a tournament list just say so, and people are generally really good at going ‘I’m bringing a knight’ or something when they do.

Back on topic... I predict a series of fluff articles whose ultimate point is explaining chapter by chapter why they don't have any Marinelets left.

Latterly, Index Astartes introduced things such as The Cursed Founding. So I'm hoping that alongside 'this is another Codex Compliant Chapter, it's background and heraldry', they continue to explore the kookier shadows of the Adeptus Astartes.

Leave teases in the background and livery, perhaps pointing to Geneseed Of Dubious Origin. Show us extinct Chapters. Show us lesser Craftworlds and Hive Fleets. Perhaps run kitbashing articles for unusual Imperial Guard Regiments.

Just....please, no specific rules for them. Or stratagems. I could probably accept a Relic or two, just for flavours sake. But keep most of it in the background, yeah? Let the articles be an inspiration to modellers, not a motivation or means to win games with little known rules.

ccs wrote:
Hmm. So is WD returning to being a useful thing?

Don’t get crazy.