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I’m still in the slow process of building this, but with specialist detachments being out for a while now, I’m hoping people can give me advice on this list. (Strategy after List) This is meant to be a take all corners list. I’d like it to be competitive, but I don’t expect to win tournaments.

Deployment-deploys as five units
-Melta squad+Officer of the Fleet+Primaris Psyker in Valkyrie 1
-10 man rifle squad+Astropath+Lord Commissar in Valkyrie 2
-10 man rifle squad+Field Commander in Valkyrie 3
-5 man volley squad in Gatling Taurox 1
-5 man volley squad in Gatling Taurox 2
-Battle Cannon Taurox 1
-Battle Cannon Taurox 2
-Either the Warlord deepstrikes somewhere or he tags along in a vehicle with a vacancy
-Everyone else is in Reserves

Strategy-Alpha then Beta Strike

-Valkyries 2 and 3 transport the 10 man rifle squads into rapid fire range and squads FRFSRF, Field Commander provides buff and orders, Lord Commissar is a counter for charges, Astropath will hopefully negate cover
Depending on how well whatever big target is protected, I may/may not move Valk 1 forward to melta bomb a target. Either way, I will probably disembark the Officer of the Fleet so he can use strafing coordinates (hopefully be hovering valks 2 and 3 for +1 to hit and re-roll ones)

-I have lots of options with all of my Tauroxes. I could go after objectives, provide medium range fire with the ranged ones or I could go long. The Gatling ones could rush a gap and breach or go after objectives and bunker down.

Turn two, hopefully all the chaff and screens are down, time for the beta strike.

-Laurels Tempestor Prime and Command squads drop to annihilate, if I haven’t melta bombed with Valk 1, I do it now.
The two 5 man squads with no special weapons will either drop to take objectives or drop to reinforce other areas.

-I ride out the rest of the game with the enemy team crippled, hopefully. I will probably still have my transports, so I can move about the board as I please.

What do you think? How would you optimize? How would you run a list lie this? I have thought about spending another CP for the Emperor’s Benediction just to make the Lord Commissar a bigger threat.
All theoretical, mind you, this probably won’t be ready for months.

Remember that you cannot transport the Scions into rapid fire range for hellguns, because they have an 18 inch range so rapid fire within 9, and you have to drop out of the valkyrie at more than 9 inches away. They need to have 4x plasmas in each to make them a real nasty threat.

 Horst wrote:
Remember that you cannot transport the Scions into rapid fire range for hellguns, because they have an 18 inch range so rapid fire within 9, and you have to drop out of the valkyrie at more than 9 inches away. They need to have 4x plasmas in each to make them a real nasty threat.

After you drop the Scions from the Valks, you can move them forward. There is a big thread about this in YMDC

Whoooossssh.
That's both the sound of my Valkayries arriving, and the sound of me arriving to comment.

Lots and lots of things to suggest, so I'll try to address them one by one.

Warlord Trait - You 100% want to have the guy leading your Scion forces have the Warlord Trait associated with the Tempestus Drop Force. [Drop Commando or somesuch.] This is what makes the formation so busted. The good news is they introduced the 'Field Commander' Stratagem so your real Warlord doesn't have to be your drop force commander. I'd personally stick your real Warlord in another transport far away. While I had suprisingly large amounts of luck in my tournament [I believe the only models to survive every single game were my Tech Priest and my Drop Force Commander] you should assume 100% of those forces are going to die, every game. Sticking your real Warlord there is a free slay the warlord. Grab a Field Commander, give him Drop Commando, and wack him with a rod of command in a Valkyrie.

[Edit- I notice you already have one - Excellent. I'm writing this on a bus however, and my memory is a little hazy, but I don't think you can have your Warlord and your field Commander in the same detahment. I'd double check that.]

Secondly - Stormtrooper drop forces are amazing. Hitting on 2's,extra shots on 5's, re-rolling 1's is the single best offensive output in the game. These guys shoot better than Adeptus Custodes. It is a criminal waste therefore, to be giving them Hellguns. Take Plasmaguns. Take Meltaguns if you have to. Take Grenade Launchers! But for the love of the Emperor, don't just take hotshots. There's nothing wrong with a hotshot, it's just not as good as a plamsagun at anything.

Don't for the love of everything, deepstrike Plasma Command Squads. They can't alphastrike - They come down too late. They can be screened against all to easily. They're really hard to order effectively [You don't want to deepstrike your warlord hiding behind a screen of a whole four guardsmen] they can get horribly murdered by Auspex or that Eldar stratagem that allows deepstrikers to be shot at, and worst of all they don't disembark from Valkayries so don't get the +1 to hit. If you must, must be awfully unfluffy and deepstrike random squads of four stormtroopers - Give them Vollyguns and deepstrike them into cover on objectives and make them +3 save annoyance units.

Also - Don't forget the Grenade throwing stratagem. Nothing says Anti Armour better than 4 Metalguns, a Plasma Pistol, and 5 Krak Grenades, hiting on 2's, extra shots on 5's, and maaaybe re-rolling all failed wounds vs Monsters/Tanks.

Now I personally Loath Taurox's, for being the horrible looking shoe in of a unit that should never of existed in the first place. That said the target saturation you're doing is both fine and assential. To many high toughness targets improves everyones survivability. The trouble is you're making it too easy for them to pick targets. Your Metla squad is the only stormtrooper with special weapons [See above!] but you've also got n officer of the fleet and your only psychic denial in there. That's going to make it target one, every time, and when it goes down your abilityto deal with Knights is seriously depleted. If you're going to have one anti tank unit - Don't stick anything else in with them. Make their fire splitting as hard as possible.

Speaking of splitting targets - Valkyrie squadrens are cool and thematic and all, but we're going to a tournament here. You get two flyer slots per battalion - Use them. One squad of one and one squad of two allows for much more variety when deploying.

Other random things -

Lord Commissars are in a sad place. They're a budget option for hitting things with a Relic Sword, but I would save the points and buy something else. You could get like two more Astropaths [Even if it makes my fluff bunny sad] for badly needed denial for example.

I also feel you're short on holding objectives. Assume everyone you deepstrike and throw out the back of a Valkayrie will die. [This won't always be true, but it often will be] You're then looking at 2 5 man squads of holding power, and a handful of transports. This is okay, but not great. Consider scrapping points expensive scions outside of the drop force and investing in dirt cheap guardsmen. [Can they go inside those blasted Metal Bawkes? If not, take Chimera's instead.] Better yet, ally in some Sisters of Battle, stick them in Rhino's, and grab a relic of denying psychic powers so you can toss the Primaris and the Astropath out the airlock.

My main worry is that you have very few models, only a few more than me, and I was playing in an event 500 points smaller than you. Losing the first turn means you have to enjoy two tull turns of being shot at by knights before your plasma arrives, you can garentee the metla won't arrive in that situation and the remainder of your force is desperately light on anti armour - Why not spread the Melta out and have one squad with two, and the other two with one?

Anyway, I've rambled enough. Feel free to ask more specific questions and I'll do my best to get back to you. My list is floating around here somewhere if you want to refer to it.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Whoooossssh.
That's both the sound of my Valkayries arriving, and the sound of me arriving to comment.

Lots and lots of things to suggest, so I'll try to address them one by one.

Warlord Trait - You 100% want to have the guy leading your Scion forces have the Warlord Trait associated with the Tempestus Drop Force. [Drop Commando or somesuch.] This is what makes the formation so busted. The good news is they introduced the 'Field Commander' Stratagem so your real Warlord doesn't have to be your drop force commander. I'd personally stick your real Warlord in another transport far away. While I had suprisingly large amounts of luck in my tournament [I believe the only models to survive every single game were my Tech Priest and my Drop Force Commander] you should assume 100% of those forces are going to die, every game. Sticking your real Warlord there is a free slay the warlord. Grab a Field Commander, give him Drop Commando, and wack him with a rod of command in a Valkyrie.

[Edit- I notice you already have one - Excellent. I'm writing this on a bus however, and my memory is a little hazy, but I don't think you can have your Warlord and your field Commander in the same detahment. I'd double check that.]

Secondly - Stormtrooper drop forces are amazing. Hitting on 2's,extra shots on 5's, re-rolling 1's is the single best offensive output in the game. These guys shoot better than Adeptus Custodes. It is a criminal waste therefore, to be giving them Hellguns. Take Plasmaguns. Take Meltaguns if you have to. Take Grenade Launchers! But for the love of the Emperor, don't just take hotshots. There's nothing wrong with a hotshot, it's just not as good as a plamsagun at anything.

Don't for the love of everything, deepstrike Plasma Command Squads. They can't alphastrike - They come down too late. They can be screened against all to easily. They're really hard to order effectively [You don't want to deepstrike your warlord hiding behind a screen of a whole four guardsmen] they can get horribly murdered by Auspex or that Eldar stratagem that allows deepstrikers to be shot at, and worst of all they don't disembark from Valkayries so don't get the +1 to hit. If you must, must be awfully unfluffy and deepstrike random squads of four stormtroopers - Give them Vollyguns and deepstrike them into cover on objectives and make them +3 save annoyance units.

Also - Don't forget the Grenade throwing stratagem. Nothing says Anti Armour better than 4 Metalguns, a Plasma Pistol, and 5 Krak Grenades, hiting on 2's, extra shots on 5's, and maaaybe re-rolling all failed wounds vs Monsters/Tanks.

Now I personally Loath Taurox's, for being the horrible looking shoe in of a unit that should never of existed in the first place. That said the target saturation you're doing is both fine and assential. To many high toughness targets improves everyones survivability. The trouble is you're making it too easy for them to pick targets. Your Metla squad is the only stormtrooper with special weapons [See above!] but you've also got n officer of the fleet and your only psychic denial in there. That's going to make it target one, every time, and when it goes down your abilityto deal with Knights is seriously depleted. If you're going to have one anti tank unit - Don't stick anything else in with them. Make their fire splitting as hard as possible.

Speaking of splitting targets - Valkyrie squadrens are cool and thematic and all, but we're going to a tournament here. You get two flyer slots per battalion - Use them. One squad of one and one squad of two allows for much more variety when deploying.

Other random things -

Lord Commissars are in a sad place. They're a budget option for hitting things with a Relic Sword, but I would save the points and buy something else. You could get like two more Astropaths [Even if it makes my fluff bunny sad] for badly needed denial for example.

I also feel you're short on holding objectives. Assume everyone you deepstrike and throw out the back of a Valkayrie will die. [This won't always be true, but it often will be] You're then looking at 2 5 man squads of holding power, and a handful of transports. This is okay, but not great. Consider scrapping points expensive scions outside of the drop force and investing in dirt cheap guardsmen. [Can they go inside those blasted Metal Bawkes? If not, take Chimera's instead.] Better yet, ally in some Sisters of Battle, stick them in Rhino's, and grab a relic of denying psychic powers so you can toss the Primaris and the Astropath out the airlock.

My main worry is that you have very few models, only a few more than me, and I was playing in an event 500 points smaller than you. Losing the first turn means you have to enjoy two tull turns of being shot at by knights before your plasma arrives, you can garentee the metla won't arrive in that situation and the remainder of your force is desperately light on anti armour - Why not spread the Melta out and have one squad with two, and the other two with one?

Anyway, I've rambled enough. Feel free to ask more specific questions and I'll do my best to get back to you. My list is floating around here somewhere if you want to refer to it.

Ah, yes, thank you for the insight. I did look into it, and I didn't find anything saying that the Field Commander couldn't be in the same detachment as the Warlord. The big restriction regarding a Field Commander and a Warlord was that they both could not have the same trait.

My strategy in my head came to the idea of the alpha strike, which would destroy the enemy's armour (their chaff) and then stab them in their vitals (their heavies, tanks, etc.).

My idea of a strategy regarding the two ten man squads that would drop from the Valkyries with the Field Commander was that I would fly them over to the area filled with chaff (most likely surrounding vital units or acting like bubble wrap, unless they are playing a hoard list,) and destroy the chaff. The good thing about the Grav-Chute Commando trait is that the Field Commander doesn't have to disembark from the same Valkyrie as the squad its buffing (It also doesn't even have to disembark from a Valk, it just has to stand there so other squads can grab the benefit.) I could also hopefully move my gatling Tauroxes up and take out any secondary screens to provide room for my melta squad. And don't worry, I haven't forgotten about Grenadiers.

After this chaff is destroyed in the initial strike, I drop the Plasma command squads and melta squad disembarks if it hasn't already. My line of thinking was that that they would have plenty of shielding from the Scions on the ground already. This hopefully kills a lot of tough and problem units.

I also have additional ideas. The Officer of the Fleet was going to drop from the Valk when it was safe so he could issue Strafing Coordinates and Air Raid. Air Raid for the mortal wounding, and Strafing Coordinates to help focus fire down heavies with the Valks (which will be hitting on threes, rerolling ones) with their lascannons. The Astropath and Primaris Psyker are there to increase the chances the scions have at living with Psychic Barrier, mainly. Psychic Barrier plus get down is a 2+ armour save on a vital Scion squad. The Primaris Psyker will hopefully also gimp out mortal wounds, and the Astropath will hopefully deny some units cover.

I also would keep the two bare bones five man squads in reserves so they could either drop and support or screen for other units, or they could drop and assist in hold objectives.

I do have some stipulations for this list that I should have put in. I don't want it to soup. Only Militarum Tempestus units and Advisors and Auxillia units. Additionally, I am looking at probably buying four Start Collecting boxes in total and buying the rest of my Scions in the 5 man packs, so, I'm going to have a few Commissar models lying around that I don't want to waste. One will go into my Killteam roster, one will probably be a gift to a cousin that is interested in Warhammer 40K (especially Imperial Guard) and one will be here in this list. The Lord Commissar is pretty fluffy, I'd say, plus he helps our bad leadership. I don't personally have much confidence in Scions in a command squad armed with an army Standard. Only +1 leadership doesn't seem that great. I felt that since command squads aren't actually anything other than Scions packed into a different sized unit, plus that fluff saying that they made up some of the bestest and brightest Scions, that it could be construed as fluffy if they all had plasma, considering that it is rarer than other weapons, even if that matters a little less since this is an elite force.

How does this all sound to you, Admiral? I do have additional ideas. I figured should need be, I could split up one of the ten man rifle squads and place them in with either the same transports as the volley squads or the autocannons, or I could make the two five man squads into a two big bare bones squads which could hold objectives. I'd be hard pressed finding someone that would like to try to storm an objective filled with either 10 or 20 scions FRFSRFing at them.

I'm on a bus again, so I'll have to be brief! -

Moral - I rarely worry about moral in the sort of list you're bringing. Squads are typically either dead or fine, if they're not we have two! [1 CP, Moral on D3, and 2CP Ignore Moral] to keep them safe. While I always bring a guy with a banner, it's purely for theamatic purposes since they got their rules destroyed several editions ago, and I always bring a spare model in case my opponent objects. While your Lord Commissar might save the odd model here and there, I worry you'd feel more confident in taking a test and making a risk in a situation you should of just burnt CPs to ensure there was zero risk - Be wary there are more missions now that mean having characters is a drawback.

Officer of the Fleet - Nothing negative to say here - Plans sound. The only thing I'd caution you on is to remember the thing you want to shoot has to be a non flyer within 18 inches of the officer. With the Stormtroopers taking care of stuff beside you as you land, you sometimes find the thing you want to shoot the transports at isn't nearby. The Air Raid predictably often does nothing, so never rely on it.

Hellguns & Chaff - AP-2 is amazing. Strength 3 is not. You're wounding Genestealers on 5's, and the best you can get with a lucky order is re-roll 1's, not re-roll all fails vs Tanks/Monsters. I'm not in a position to pump out some math right now, but I'll just caution you that they often do a lot less work against infantry than you'd like. [Particularly Orks...] You'll have more success with the Mutliple Rocket pods at that, but you can't rely on them owing to random number of shots. You also can't rely on killing all the chaff - A generic Imperial Guard, Ork, Genestealer Cult, or Tyranid not-monster mash list will have far, far more chaff than your army can deal with. Only your generic I brought a few knights and 32 infantry list will be manageable. Have a backup plan for hoards!

Field Commander - That's good then, I'll keep that in mind. Didn't have my copy of VD on the bus to check!


I appreciate wanting to keep the budget down and just spam start collecting boxes, so I can't comment on a financial perspective. I am just concerned the resulting force will have notable weaknesses [The start collecting box is a bad army. Taking it in multiples is a bad army] And while the Valks help compensate for this they still have glaring weaknesses. [No chaff or screen of your own for starts!] So even if you don't branch out at this stage, long term I would encourage you into looking into some regular guardsmen and sentinels [At least one scout sentinel] even if you're not interested in allies!

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I'm on a bus again, so I'll have to be brief! -

Moral - I rarely worry about moral in the sort of list you're bringing. Squads are typically either dead or fine, if they're not we have two! [1 CP, Moral on D3, and 2CP Ignore Moral] to keep them safe. While I always bring a guy with a banner, it's purely for theamatic purposes since they got their rules destroyed several editions ago, and I always bring a spare model in case my opponent objects. While your Lord Commissar might save the odd model here and there, I worry you'd feel more confident in taking a test and making a risk in a situation you should of just burnt CPs to ensure there was zero risk - Be wary there are more missions now that mean having characters is a drawback.

Officer of the Fleet - Nothing negative to say here - Plans sound. The only thing I'd caution you on is to remember the thing you want to shoot has to be a non flyer within 18 inches of the officer. With the Stormtroopers taking care of stuff beside you as you land, you sometimes find the thing you want to shoot the transports at isn't nearby. The Air Raid predictably often does nothing, so never rely on it.

Hellguns & Chaff - AP-2 is amazing. Strength 3 is not. You're wounding Genestealers on 5's, and the best you can get with a lucky order is re-roll 1's, not re-roll all fails vs Tanks/Monsters. I'm not in a position to pump out some math right now, but I'll just caution you that they often do a lot less work against infantry than you'd like. [Particularly Orks...] You'll have more success with the Mutliple Rocket pods at that, but you can't rely on them owing to random number of shots. You also can't rely on killing all the chaff - A generic Imperial Guard, Ork, Genestealer Cult, or Tyranid not-monster mash list will have far, far more chaff than your army can deal with. Only your generic I brought a few knights and 32 infantry list will be manageable. Have a backup plan for hoards!

Field Commander - That's good then, I'll keep that in mind. Didn't have my copy of VD on the bus to check!


I appreciate wanting to keep the budget down and just spam start collecting boxes, so I can't comment on a financial perspective. I am just concerned the resulting force will have notable weaknesses [The start collecting box is a bad army. Taking it in multiples is a bad army] And while the Valks help compensate for this they still have glaring weaknesses. [No chaff or screen of your own for starts!] So even if you don't branch out at this stage, long term I would encourage you into looking into some regular guardsmen and sentinels [At least one scout sentinel] even if you're not interested in allies!

I imagine changing up so my volley squads are in the battle cannon Tauroxes could be good to allow the Gatling Tauroxes to assist in destroying a hoard. However, what do you think of my Alpha (destroy chaff armour) then beta strike (destroy the mainstays) plan? I have enough flexibility I’d say that I could dedicate different resources to different areas depending on my opponent (Like moving the Gatling Tauroxes to aid in the chaff killing).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do understand what you mean about bringing in allies or other guard resources. But, I want to show everyone what the best and brightest of human mortals can do! So it’s only Schola Progena and their support staff in this fight!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I forgot to address this at the time, but the reason I took I’ll the Valks in one squadron was to cut my deployment to five units if necessary. That will alimony guarantee me getting the bonus, which is a big part and gamble for my list.

 Apple Peel wrote:
[

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I forgot to address this at the time, but the reason I took I’ll the Valks in one squadron was to cut my deployment to five units if necessary. That will alimony guarantee me getting the bonus, which is a big part and gamble for my list.

Ah, I assumed you were using the new missions from Chapter Approved whereby there's just a straight rolloff for first turn. That makes quite a bit of difference if you're not and you're just going for first to finish gets +1.

This is an updated list idea based on feedback. Most all of the tactics remain the same, and the deployment as well, with a few exceptions.
I am going to have some weaknesses. Horde Clearing, objective holding, dying to a stiff breeze, but I will have to work around that, as this army will wholly be Militarum Tempestus with Advisors and Auxillia support.
I can always tweak my deployment style depending on mission and enemy, so not everything is rigid.

The Warlord will be with one of the two 5 man squads, and the non-Field Commander Tempestor Prime will be with the other, which will be in the Battle Cannon Taurox Primes. They will disembark with their squads in order to Vox out orders. For lack of better placement, I imagine I will place the Lord Commissar in one of these to act as some kind of protection. I might see about advancing him up the field, but I am semi-constrained on who can deploy in what vehicle.

Valkyrie two will have our Field Commander, the Astropath, and the volleygun squad within, and Valkyrie three will have our plasma command squads. The volley squad will receive FRFSRF to increase chaff killing ability. The command squads will hopefully receive both Take Aim and Elimination Protocol Sanctioned from the Laurels and a use of Inspired Tactics.

Valkyrie one will have the melta squad, the Officer of the Fleet, and the Primaris Psyker. The OoF will probably disembark part way through the move so he can give straffing coordinates to the Valks so the can focus fire with their lascannons. The Primaris psyker will disembark some where I feel necessary. The melta squad will get Elimination Protocol Sanctioned and blow up something.

Wherever there may be an enemy screen of chaff or the like, the two ten man rifle squads will go. Depending on how much chaff is on the board, I may not deploy them in the Gatling Cannon Tauroxes and hold them in reserves so they can assist in another area or can be placed on objectives.

I’d like to thank an Admiral Halsey for advice, and I’m open to more criticism for optimization.

I'm keen to hear how it goes!