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I intend to eventually take a crack at writing rules for the Renegade Chapters, as a codex as separate and distinct from the loyalist or chaos space marines. I just wanted to get opinions and see if anyone else has any observations from their knowledge of the lore that they can contribute. I'm working on getting the broad stroke characterization of Renegades to establish the underlying themes of the rules I'm writing. There are also a whole mix of loyalist/chaos/xenos technology and units that should or shouldn't be available to Renegades and that's something that's important to get right.

As things currently are GW chooses to simply lump Renegades into CSM, but Renegades represent a wider variety of forces than the Loyalist marine chapters that turn to Chaos. There are a variety of reasons why a Loyalist chapters have gone renegade that have nothing to do with an allegiance to chaos. Some have developed mutations, others in following oaths to assist simply ended up on the wrong side of a dispute within the Imperium, others just made an enemy of the wrong inquisitor.

On more than one occasion they've remained loyalist, fighting from the shadows and coming to the aid of Imperial worlds. There are however the chapters that don't stay loyalist and don't turn to chaos; they fight as mercenaries or pirates and mostly for self gain or survival. Then you have the Chaos aligned chapters that either trade with the Dark Mechanicum or Legions, or fight as proxies or allies, and those that are in deep with Chaptermasters seeking out apotheosis to daemonhood.

Below I've made some lists, general characterizations of how Renegades fight, lists of the weapons and equipment Renegades have been shown to use and weapons that they generally shouldn't. Please help by adding to these lists.

From the different bits of lore I think these are the broad characterizations of Renegades:

Tend to fight more like pirates or raiders, coming in quick to achieve an objective, taking anything they need then getting away.

Tend to have deteriorating command structures, disciplines, the ability to adhere to the Codex Astartes and for a variety of reasons how they used to fight.

Due to being cut off from the direct Imperial and Adeptus Mechanicus support tend to have deteriorating equipment, but also tend to have unsanctioned modifications and/or repairs to their equipment as well.

Similar to the Fallen, there is almost always some Imperial force that holds a grudge against them.

Who Renegades are willing to ally with is directly related to whether they are Loyalist, Chaos, or doing their own thing; generally more flexible than a loyalist chapter. None working with the inquisition but some working with non-astartes Imperial Forces, others with xenos, and then of course chaos.

Mutation while not common to all renegades are common enough; they are sometime the cause of a chapter becoming renegades or a consequence of hiding out in the warp.

In the lore these loyalist units/weapons/equipment have been said to be difficult to maintain, where the problem of repair or resupply would likely keep them out of Renegade use:

Assault Cannons

Land Speeders

Thunderfire cannon

Grav weapons

Whirlwind (some missile types)

In the lore these chaos units/weapons/equipment seem reserved for those more strongly allied with Chaos or heresy hold overs for the former Legions:

Daemon Engines

Ectoplasma / Hades type weapons

Combi-bolter

Reaper Auto-cannon

Havoc Launchers

In the lore these loyalist units/weapons/equipment have been explicitly shown to be used by Renegades; I've left off the most typical things, but will eventually add them.

Drop Pods

Gunships (like the Stormraven)

In the lore these Chaos units/weapons/equipment have been shown to be used by Renegades or even the most recently turned to chaos; I've left off the most typical things, but will eventually add them.:

Possessed

Sorcerers

Daemon weapons

In the lore some xenos units/technology used by Renegades:

Dark Eldar poisons/toxins/drugs

Xenos Mercenaries (Ork/Kroot)

An additional renegade archetype to consider would be the Tyrant's Legion as presented in Imperial Armour 9. Space Marines who dominate a local area and conscript its human forces to serve as cannon fodder.

Interesting idea. Between loyalists and chaos, there may be dozens or hundreds of chapters who are not quite on either side, it'd be nice to get a deeper look into them.

I don't know if it can translate into actual rules, but I can think of a few "flavors" depending on how/why renegade marines are no longer part of the Imperium.
- Unfortunate loyalists: these marines have been branded traitors because of politics, or because of a series of misunderstandings or because they were framed in some sinister plot... In any case, they try to keep fighting the good fight while avoiding direct conflict with the IoM. They'd rather get supplies by doing mercenary work, dealing with smugglers or confiscating pirates' loot.
- Extremists: for these, the end always justifies the mean. At some point, they went too far for the inquisition and were branded traitors... They will keep fighting the enemies of the Imperium anyway, using whatever it takes. They will seize what they deem necessary for their cause. They may use alien technology or even daemons, as long as it gets the job done.
- Idealists: because the existing Imperium is a corrupt and decaying mess, these marines intend to create a new and improved Imperium; maybe what the Emperor "really" wanted it to be or maybe something even better than that... For them, being called traitors by the old, corrupt Imperium is proof that they are right. When they attack, it's not to raid but to "liberate" worlds/resources to join and support their bright future.
- Disillusioned: because the existing Imperium is a corrupt and decaying mess, these marines have given up on it and even on mankind itself. They became nihilists who fight for themselves and their brothers; anyone else is insignificant.

Of course, all of these could become tainted by chaos over time and at some point turn into true CSM but that's not really the point here.

Tiennos wrote:
Interesting idea. Between loyalists and chaos, there may be dozens or hundreds of chapters who are not quite on either side, it'd be nice to get a deeper look into them.

I don't know if it can translate into actual rules, but I can think of a few "flavors" depending on how/why renegade marines are no longer part of the Imperium.
- Unfortunate loyalists: these marines have been branded traitors because of politics, or because of a series of misunderstandings or because they were framed in some sinister plot... In any case, they try to keep fighting the good fight while avoiding direct conflict with the IoM. They'd rather get supplies by doing mercenary work, dealing with smugglers or confiscating pirates' loot.
- Extremists: for these, the end always justifies the mean. At some point, they went too far for the inquisition and were branded traitors... They will keep fighting the enemies of the Imperium anyway, using whatever it takes. They will seize what they deem necessary for their cause. They may use alien technology or even daemons, as long as it gets the job done.
- Idealists: because the existing Imperium is a corrupt and decaying mess, these marines intend to create a new and improved Imperium; maybe what the Emperor "really" wanted it to be or maybe something even better than that... For them, being called traitors by the old, corrupt Imperium is proof that they are right. When they attack, it's not to raid but to "liberate" worlds/resources to join and support their bright future.
- Disillusioned: because the existing Imperium is a corrupt and decaying mess, these marines have given up on it and even on mankind itself. They became nihilists who fight for themselves and their brothers; anyone else is insignificant.

Of course, all of these could become tainted by chaos over time and at some point turn into true CSM but that's not really the point here.

I thought of 3 different approaches to distinguishing the different "flavors"... yours was like one.

Where yours represents the psychology of renegades... I thought about that, but I also thought about some sort of system based on where within the Chapter the Renegade behavior originated, whether it was something caused by Librarian playing with something they shouldn't have, or a group of veterans that form a sub-cult that becomes a place that chaos starts seeping in... In the end I went for something that could represent a wider number of Rengegade flavors.

The idea I like best right now is a list of different "deviations" representing the different ways a Chapter has failed to adhere to the different expectations of the Imperium that the player can select from, and where that selection dictates how far down the path to chaos they are. This way everything from a quest for forbidden knowledge to the use or collection of dangerous artifacts to the various mutations could be represented to a psychological craze that's spread through out the chapter. A Chapter that only has one of these issues might have enough cohesion and belief in the Imperium to still be "loyal" to the imperium, even though they've been declared renegades. While having a couple deviations represents a Chapter that is out on its own but not necessarily aligned to Chaos or the Imperium, while taking another deviation makes the Chapter strictly a force of chaos. Where in addition to changing key words, the choices alter what typically loyalist units and what typically chaos units are available to the army... and the way chaos slowly creeps into a Renegade force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formerly Wu wrote:
An additional renegade archetype to consider would be the Tyrant's Legion as presented in Imperial Armour 9. Space Marines who dominate a local area and conscript its human forces to serve as cannon fodder.

I agree. Right now I'm kinda trying to define 3 different points on the path to chaos for a Renegade force.

1 - Initially they're ejected from the Imperium for a taboo or deviation of some sort from imperial dogma, at this point they're very much like a codex chapter, but with the morale, devotion, organization, and adherence to Imperial doctrines breaking down; the absence of Imperial resources sees some of their more demanding equipment and weapons breaking down and in disuse. The chapter may be on their own crusade to retake their honor, clinging to the the hope they'll be forgiven and brought back into the fold, and are "loyal" enough to the Imperium that they might still come to the aid of imperial worlds.

2 - This is the point where a Renegade chapter has decided the Imperium is an enemy, but isn't necessarily Chaos or working with the Chaos Legions. They tend to organize and operate more like Pirates and are mostly out for themselves. At this point much more of the equipment they'd have used as Loyalist has fallen into disrepair or the where the general struggles with maintaining their hierarchy and discipline make the necessary coordinated use of those weapons prohibitive. At this point they may make use of renegade humans, possibly chaos worshipping humans, but few if any of the Chapter will be "Chaos".

3 - This is the point where the Renegade Chapter has embraced chaos, making use of chaos allies and benefactors, raiding and fighting as proxies for more significant Chaos factions, having received many of the distinguishing Chaos weapons and developing into some of the chaos units.

You can look at 'Blackshield' marines from HH, too. One example I liked there was equipment with safeties cut off to compensate for lack of proper parts and need for greater performance. Things like assault 3 bolters with 16 inch range (greater rate of fire at expense of accuracy), 'light' power armour (+2 inch to movement but any weapon S6 or above targeting you has AP improved by 1), over-pressured flamers (16 inch range and +1 to AP but rolling 1 on hit count deals MW to user), etc, etc. Other was equipment looted from other Imperial and Xeno forces - things like Stormtrooper hot shots and volley guns instead of bolters, astartes shotguns and sniper rifles, eldar and necron weaponry, forbidden rad and phospex weapons, etc etc.

 Irbis wrote:
You can look at 'Blackshield' marines from HH, too. One example I liked there was equipment with safeties cut off to compensate for lack of proper parts and need for greater performance. Things like assault 3 bolters with 16 inch range (greater rate of fire at expense of accuracy), 'light' power armour (+2 inch to movement but any weapon S6 or above targeting you has AP improved by 1), over-pressured flamers (16 inch range and +1 to AP but rolling 1 on hit count deals MW to user), etc, etc. Other was equipment looted from other Imperial and Xeno forces - things like Stormtrooper hot shots and volley guns instead of bolters, astartes shotguns and sniper rifles, eldar and necron weaponry, forbidden rad and phospex weapons, etc etc.

Definitely want to draw on that for inspiration. I was thinking a couple varieties of mutually exclusive bolter rules to represent different modifications. A bolter with assault 3 with standard range, but it has something like get hots that forces to use a standard bolter profile the rest of the game. This way the army has something distinctive, but with the temporary feel to represent the poor condition of their equipment.

I was thinking of having some sort of stripped down power armor to effectively allow scouts by another name, and widens available options over what loyalist scouts typically have. I'm imagine it being modeled as mixed unit of marines with some power armor pieces and then a few surviving scouts using whatever weapons they may have found.

I also think its important to add to their available options wargear like boarding shield, which through FW were available for a specific squad of Boarding marines, but in where in a Renegade army there aren't as many of those guys left and the remaining shields are just carried by random marines in non-dedicated boarding units. It could easily end up feeling a bit to organized like a SWAT team, but its meant to make things overall feel less organized and with less coordination between the renegades.

I definitely want to have a good number of flavorful options, but its very important not to go too far or else they end up feeling like non-imperial Deathwatch.