40k Vulkan- My results

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**CATACLYSMUS**

I posted a thread back in February about creating 40k rules for Vulkan. I have the FW model, but I really dont play 30k, and though he will have a place of honor on my shelf, I'd like to take him for a spin now and then.
Rather than Necro that thread, I decided to start a new one with what I've come up with. Much of it was based on tips given to me here and other places, as well as referring to his 30k stats. Not much is really new- most of his special rules are drawn from other units in the game, or tweaked versions of his previous incarnation. Essentially, I want a badass primarch without making him broken. I want both myself and my opponent to have fun with him on the table. Please, C&C is welcome! What do you think?
Vulkan, Primarch of the Salamanders
425 points
If present in Battle Forged Salamanders Detachment, MUST be Warlord
WS:2
BS:2
S:7
T:6
A:5
W:9
M:7
LD:10
Sv: 2+

Draken Scale: Inv: 3++

Perpetual: 4+ FNP

Doomtremor: S: x2 AP:-3 D d6 (2d6 pick highest).
(Earthshatter: Attacks at S: User AP:0 D:1 If attack hits, target unit suffers -1 to hit on all attack rolls made during following turn.)

Flame gauntlet: 8” d6 auto- hits S6 AP-2 D:2

XVIII PRIMARCH: Reroll failed hits for SALAMANDERS in 6”
Reroll wound rolls for flamer and melta weapons in 6”

Fireborn: +3” of range for all flamer and melta weapons used by a unit with SALAMANDERS chapter tactics in 6”

Master of the Forge: 6+ Feel no pain on all SALAMANDERS vehicles/dreadnoughts.

**WisdomLS**

That looks pretty reasonable to me, I'd be happy to play against him which is a good measure for homebrew rules.

Extra suggestions:

I might give him an extra strength but drop his toughness down a pip, he was known as the strongest of the primarchs (if memory serves) but was not any tougher.

I'd perhaps drop the half all damage to reduce damage by one instead. Then maybe add a rule for being a perpetual, perhaps heal a single wound at the start of each battle round.

Lastly I think the master of the forge ability needs rewording, doesnt explain which units get it, I'm guessing all salamanders within 6"

**fraser1191**

I think Vulkan should also grant 3 CP like Guilliman, but they can only be used for the stratagem for more relics.

**Wyldhunt**

Seems pretty reasonable. Some thoughts:

CATACLYSMUS wrote:

Vulkan, Primarch of the Salamanders
425 points
If present in Battle Forged Salamanders, MUST be Warlord
WS:2
BS:2
S:6
T:7
A:5
W:9
M:7
LD:10
Sv: 2+

Clarify that warlord bit. Does this mean that you can't field him alongside Roboute period even in different detachments? Does it mean you can field both provided they're in an Adeptus Astartes detachment instead of a Salamanders or Ultramarines detachment?

Also, what's the justification for T7 instead of T6? Is it the drakescale? IIRC, there's a Salamanders relic that ups T, so that doesn't seem unreasonable.

Draken Scale: Inv: 3++
Halve all damage rounding up

Probably fine. Seems similar in usefulness to Roboute's stand back up ability.

Doomtremor: S: x2 AP:-3 D:4 (2d6 pick highest)
(Tremor: Make attacks base S AP0 D1. If hits, target unit has movement halved, cannot advance next movement phase.)

This is a melee weapon, so I'm not entirely sure when this ability would be used. If an enemy falls back from Vulkan, it's not allowed to advance anyway. IIRC, even harlies or aeldari using the fall-back-and-still-do-stuff strats can't advance after falling back. You could theoretically keep fast units from falling back quite so far so that you could reach them more easily on your next turn, but most units fast enough for that to be useful can also Fly, and it seems odd that units with Fly are thrown off their game by a "tremor". Which I assume is basically a ground pound.

Maybe treat it similarly to titanic feet instead? Make three attacks at strength 4 AP 0 Damage 1 for each attack made with Doomtremors instead of using its normal profile. It makes him better at crowd clearing. Or if you want to keep the "shaken up by the tremor" feel, maybe just impose a -1 to hit for the rest of the phase? So you'd swing Vulkan early to debuff other units in range of him.

Master of the Forge: 6+ Feel no pain on all vehicles/dreadnoughts.

Needs to be clarified as mentioned elsewhere. Is this an army-wide buff? An aura? Does it work on non-Salamanders vehicles?

**CATACLYSMUS**

Ok, I've made a couple of tweaks. Rather than halve damage, I've added a 4+ FNP to represent his Perpetual nature.
I decided to not give him the 3cp because i think that reflects Guilliman's specific 'superpower' for generalship.
The tremor ability was taken from an IG Superheavy tank cannon. After your question, I re-thought it. You're right, it doesn't make sense on a Melee weapon.
I raised his strength, but one of the concerns is that, with the hammer he would be hitting at S14. However, in the fluff he lifted a friggin' baneblade, so...
Overall, I've tried to make him less effective than Guilliman with his aura/leadership abilities. However, he's quite a bit better as a beat stick. He is, after all, 25 points more.
Whaddya think?

**JNAProductions**

Somethign confuses me-you've listed Doomremor's damage as 4 (2d6 take the highest). Which is it?

As for S14... Eh, whatever. An Abominant can hit S14, or even as high as S18, I think.

**CATACLYSMUS**

JNAProductions wrote:
Somethign confuses me-you've listed Doomremor's damage as 4 (2d6 take the highest). Which is it?.

Whoops! I think I had a crossed-wires moment between old/8th ed rules. Fixing now!

**Togusa**

I love it! I suggested something like this for the FW primarch models, mind if I share my thoughts on Kurze?

Conrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords 400 Points
M: 14"
WS: 2+
BS: 2+
S: 6
T: 6
A: 6
W: 8
LD: 10
SV: 2+

Character, Infantry, Jump, Primarch of the VIII Legion

Rules:
Warlord trait: Through Fear and Terror: Friendly Night Lords units within 6 inches of Curze automatically pass moral tests. Furthermore, enemy units within 6 inches of Curze cannot spend CP to reroll or automatically pass moral tests.
Primarch of the VIII Legion: If your army is battle forged and Curze is your warlord, you gain +2 Command Points. In addition, before the game begins, after deployment roll D6. On the result of a 4+ your opponent loses D3 command points.
The King of the Night: Any unit shooting at Curze from a distance of 8" or greater suffers -1 to hit.
Sire of the Night Lords: Friendly Night Lords raptors and warp talons within 8" of Curze reroll 1's to hit and 1's to wound.
Strike from the Shadows: Instead of deploying Curze on the battle field, you may set him up in the shadows.... Blah blah blah deepstrike: The turn in which he arrives units may not fire overwatch at him.
Rampant Paranoia: Whenever Curze suffers an unsaved wound in melee combat, you may immediately make D3 attacks against the closest enemy unit in base to base contact with Curze.
Night Hunter: When Curze successfully make a charge, roll D6. On a 4+ The target unit suffers D3 Mortal wounds and may not be selected to fight until all other units have fought at least once this turn.
Psyker: Curze may cast one power and deny one power per turn. He knows theSmite power and 1 unique power: Future Sight: Warp Charge 7: When manifest select a single friendly unit or enemy unit within 18 inches. Friendly units get +1 to their armor save and always fight fist in the fight phase unit the beginning of your next psychic phase. Enemy units cannot fire overwatch, suffer a -1 Penalty to their hit rolls and always fight last in the fight phase until your next psychic phase.

Wargear:
Mercy and Forgiveness: Melee S+2 AP-3 D3 "Reroll failed wounds for this weapon." Furthermore any wound rolls of a 5+ are treated at AP-4 and generate an additional mortal wound.
The Widowmakers: Range 12" Assault D3 S: User AP-2 D3 "May target characters even if they are not the closest unit." Furthermore wound rolls of a 6+ generate an additional mortal wound.
The Nightmare Mantle: Confers a 3++ invulnerable save and grants "when ever this target suffers a wound roll a D6, on the result of a 5+ the target does not suffer the wound." Furthermore all units within 12" of Cruze roll 2D6 when taking moral tests and discard the lowest result.

So, what do you think?

**JNAProductions**

Togusa wrote:
I love it! I suggested something like this for the FW primarch models, mind if I share my thoughts on Kurze?

Conrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords 400 Points
M: 14"
WS: 2+
BS: 2+
S: 6
T: 6
A: 6
W: 8
LD: 10
SV: 2+

Character, Infantry, Jump, Primarch of the VIII Legion

Rules:
Warlord trait: Through Fear and Terror: Friendly Night Lords units within 6 inches of Curze automatically pass moral tests. Furthermore, enemy units within 6 inches of Curze automatically fail moral tests if the die result is anything by a 1.
Primarch of the VIII Legion: If your army is battle forged and Curze is your warlord, you gain +2 Command Points. In addition, before the game begins, after deployment roll D6. On the result of a 4+ your opponent loses D3 command points.
The King of the Night: Any unit shooting at Curze from a distance of 8" or greater suffers -1 to hit.
Sire of the Night Lords: Friendly Night Lords raptors and warp talons within 8" of Curze reroll 1's to hit and 1's to wound.
Strike from the Shadows: Instead of deploying Curze on the battle field, you may set him up in the shadows.... Blah blah blah deepstrike: The turn in which he arrives units may not fire overwatch at him.
Rampant Paranoia: Whenever Curze suffers an unsaved wound in melee combat, you may immediately make D3 attacks against the closest enemy unit in base to base contact with Curze.
Night Hunter: When Curze successfully make a charge, roll D6. On a 4+ The target unit suffers D3 Mortal wounds and may not be selected to fight until all other units have fought at least once this turn.
Psyker: Curze may cast one power and deny one power per turn. He knows theSmite power and 1 unique power: Future Sight: Warp Charge 7: When manifest select a single friendly unit or enemy unit within 18 inches. Friendly units get +1 to their armor save and always fight fist in the fight phase unit the beginning of your next psychic phase. Enemy units cannot fire overwatch, suffer a -1 Penalty to their hit rolls and always fight last in the fight phase until your next psychic phase.

Wargear:
Mercy and Forgiveness: Melee S+2 AP-3 D3 "Reroll failed wounds for this weapon." Furthermore any wound rolls of a 5+ are treated at AP-4 and generate an additional mortal wound.
The Widowmakers: Range 12" Assault D3 S: User AP-2 D3 "May target characters even if they are not the closest unit." Furthermore wound rolls of a 6+ generate an additional mortal wound.
The Nightmare Mantle: Confers a 3++ invulnerable save and grants "when ever this target suffers a wound roll a D6, on the result of a 5+ the target does not suffer the wound." Furthermore all units within 12" of Cruze roll 2D6 when taking moral tests and discard the lowest result.

So, what do you think?

The warlord trait makes no sense. How much do they fail by? Do they lose models, or just count as having failed?

**Togusa**

JNAProductions wrote:
Togusa wrote:
I love it! I suggested something like this for the FW primarch models, mind if I share my thoughts on Kurze?

Conrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords 400 Points
M: 14"
WS: 2+
BS: 2+
S: 6
T: 6
A: 6
W: 8
LD: 10
SV: 2+

Character, Infantry, Jump, Primarch of the VIII Legion

Rules:
Warlord trait: Through Fear and Terror: Friendly Night Lords units within 6 inches of Curze automatically pass moral tests. Furthermore, enemy units within 6 inches of Curze automatically fail moral tests if the die result is anything by a 1.
Primarch of the VIII Legion: If your army is battle forged and Curze is your warlord, you gain +2 Command Points. In addition, before the game begins, after deployment roll D6. On the result of a 4+ your opponent loses D3 command points.
The King of the Night: Any unit shooting at Curze from a distance of 8" or greater suffers -1 to hit.
Sire of the Night Lords: Friendly Night Lords raptors and warp talons within 8" of Curze reroll 1's to hit and 1's to wound.
Strike from the Shadows: Instead of deploying Curze on the battle field, you may set him up in the shadows.... Blah blah blah deepstrike: The turn in which he arrives units may not fire overwatch at him.
Rampant Paranoia: Whenever Curze suffers an unsaved wound in melee combat, you may immediately make D3 attacks against the closest enemy unit in base to base contact with Curze.
Night Hunter: When Curze successfully make a charge, roll D6. On a 4+ The target unit suffers D3 Mortal wounds and may not be selected to fight until all other units have fought at least once this turn.
Psyker: Curze may cast one power and deny one power per turn. He knows theSmite power and 1 unique power: Future Sight: Warp Charge 7: When manifest select a single friendly unit or enemy unit within 18 inches. Friendly units get +1 to their armor save and always fight fist in the fight phase unit the beginning of your next psychic phase. Enemy units cannot fire overwatch, suffer a -1 Penalty to their hit rolls and always fight last in the fight phase until your next psychic phase.

Wargear:
Mercy and Forgiveness: Melee S+2 AP-3 D3 "Reroll failed wounds for this weapon." Furthermore any wound rolls of a 5+ are treated at AP-4 and generate an additional mortal wound.
The Widowmakers: Range 12" Assault D3 S: User AP-2 D3 "May target characters even if they are not the closest unit." Furthermore wound rolls of a 6+ generate an additional mortal wound.
The Nightmare Mantle: Confers a 3++ invulnerable save and grants "when ever this target suffers a wound roll a D6, on the result of a 5+ the target does not suffer the wound." Furthermore all units within 12" of Cruze roll 2D6 when taking moral tests and discard the lowest result.

So, what do you think?
The warlord trait makes no sense. How much do they fail by? Do they lose models, or just count as having failed?

My thinking was incorrect. I have edited it to change it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CATACLYSMUS wrote:
Ok, I've made a couple of tweaks. Rather than halve damage, I've added a 4+ FNP to represent his Perpetual nature.
I decided to not give him the 3cp because i think that reflects Guilliman's specific 'superpower' for generalship.
The tremor ability was taken from an IG Superheavy tank cannon. After your question, I re-thought it. You're right, it doesn't make sense on a Melee weapon.
I raised his strength, but one of the concerns is that, with the hammer he would be hitting at S14. However, in the fluff he lifted a friggin' baneblade, so...
Overall, I've tried to make him less effective than Guilliman with his aura/leadership abilities. However, he's quite a bit better as a beat stick. He is, after all, 25 points more.
Whaddya think?

Being S14 is fine I think for him, it fits and only one other person in the lore could be comparable (Ferrus) so it should be fine.