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I tried to search for this topic, but was not able to find anything.

The faq is clear that all shots from a unit are treated as simultaneous in regards to pulling casualties and LOS.
The rules also say when splitting attacks to resolve completely before moving on to the other units you have split your fire against.

So I read this that if a unit targets a space marine ancient with a banner and a Tac team, they would completely resolve against the ancient first (if they chose to) and therefore deny the tac team an opportunity to use the banners aura?

Or would all firing against both units still be considered simultaneous?

Thanks.

You answered your own question right here.

"The faq is clear that all shots from a unit are treated as simultaneous in regards to pulling casualties and LOS."

ghostvalley wrote:
I tried to search for this topic, but was not able to find anything.

The faq is clear that all shots from a unit are treated as simultaneous in regards to pulling casualties and LOS.
The rules also say when splitting attacks to resolve completely before moving on to the other units you have split your fire against.

So I read this that if a unit targets a space marine ancient with a banner and a Tac team, they would completely resolve against the ancient first (if they chose to) and therefore deny the tac team an opportunity to use the banners aura?

Or would all firing against both units still be considered simultaneous?

Thanks.

It is not simultaneous. Casualties are not removed simultaneously, they are removed as part of the firing sequence for a weapon. Not sure where you're getting the idea casualties are removed simultaneously. LOS and Range is checked only once, so casualties can't make subsequent weapons "out of range", but that is the exact opposite of casualties being removed simultaneously.

It's the same reason why you fire markerlights first so the rest of the squad can benefit.

In the OP example, if you fire at the Ancient first and kill it, the Tacticals cannot benefit from the banner because it no longer is on the battlefield.

Also, just saying "the FAQ" is not helpful. Exactly which FAQ document, which page, which question?

ghostvalley wrote:
I tried to search for this topic, but was not able to find anything.

The faq is clear that all shots from a unit are treated as simultaneous in regards to pulling casualties and LOS.
The rules also say when splitting attacks to resolve completely before moving on to the other units you have split your fire against.

So I read this that if a unit targets a space marine ancient with a banner and a Tac team, they would completely resolve against the ancient first (if they chose to) and therefore deny the tac team an opportunity to use the banners aura?

Or would all firing against both units still be considered simultaneous?

Thanks.

It would not be simultaneous. Casualty removal is handled one model at a time; if you have a unit that's partially in area terrain that gets shot at, you can remove the casualties first from the models outside the area terrain. When they're all gone remaining members in the unit would get the cover bonus from any other attacks coming in after the final outside-area-terrain casualty has been removed.

It should apply the same to the banner unless there's special wording on the banner that would have it affecting the rest of the phase.

The player commanding the target unit(s) allocates the wound to any model in the unit(s), in whatever order he wants to. The tac marines and the ancient are two seperate units. He can allocate the wounds to the tac marines first, using the banner ability when a tac marine dies. After that he allocates wounds to the ancient. Note that the ancient is a character, he cant be targeted unless he is the closest visible enemy model, or you have snipers.

 p5freak wrote:
The player commanding the target unit(s) allocates the wound to any model in the unit(s), in whatever order he wants to. The tac marines and the ancient are two seperate units. He can allocate the wounds to the tac marines first, using the banner ability when a tac marine dies. After that he allocates wounds to the ancient. Note that the ancient is a character, he cant be targeted unless he is the closest visible enemy model, or you have snipers.

That is not how shooting works. The attacker decides the order his models shoot in. The models do not shoot simultaneously, they shoot one at a time. Wounds on the Tactical Squad cannot spill over to the Ancient and vice versa.

 p5freak wrote:
The player commanding the target unit(s) allocates the wound to any model in the unit(s), in whatever order he wants to. The tac marines and the ancient are two seperate units. He can allocate the wounds to the tac marines first, using the banner ability when a tac marine dies. After that he allocates wounds to the ancient. Note that the ancient is a character, he cant be targeted unless he is the closest visible enemy model, or you have snipers.

Bingo On hum being a character and will probably never actually happen gameplay wise. The rules are just silly in this case. The effects are both Simultaneous and not.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The player commanding the target unit(s) allocates the wound to any model in the unit(s), in whatever order he wants to. The tac marines and the ancient are two seperate units. He can allocate the wounds to the tac marines first, using the banner ability when a tac marine dies. After that he allocates wounds to the ancient. Note that the ancient is a character, he cant be targeted unless he is the closest visible enemy model, or you have snipers.

Bingo. Except not. They still get the banner effect though. Because they are being removed the the same unit.

Except if you shoot the Ancient first, the Tacticals don't get the banner effect because the Ancient is dead.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The player commanding the target unit(s) allocates the wound to any model in the unit(s), in whatever order he wants to. The tac marines and the ancient are two seperate units. He can allocate the wounds to the tac marines first, using the banner ability when a tac marine dies. After that he allocates wounds to the ancient. Note that the ancient is a character, he cant be targeted unless he is the closest visible enemy model, or you have snipers.

Bingo. Except not. They still get the banner effect though. Because they are being removed the the same unit.

Except if you shoot the Ancient first, the Tacticals don't get the banner effect because the Ancient is dead.

You're right - except the shots aren't simultaneous anymore then are they? Only for the purposes of checking range and LOS are multiple weapons simultaneous - they aren't simultaneous in regards to removing casualties.

Ok, I am wrong. I was assuming fast rolling, but that's not possible when you split fire.

Even if fast rolling, you're only allowed to fast roll hits and wounds. Wound allocation, making saves and casualty removal is not subject to fast rolling.

Apologies for being confusing with using the word "simultaneous", I was referring to the main rulebook faq Pg 6: where it says that.

"You determine the number of attacks the firing unit will make against the target unit before any of those
attacks are made (i.e. before any hit rolls are made). If
you are resolving these attacks one at a time and your
opponent removes the only visible model as a casualty, you
still continue to resolve the remainder of the firing unit’s
attacks against that target."

I had already determined and played that the Ancient could be removed first and the tac not get the aura benefit - was just hoping there would be something out there that stated that the firing units attacks were treated as simultaneous between the two targets. Just wishful thinking -hoping that I missed something.

The unit declares all the shooting it's going to do before anything is rolled.Then you resolve the firing against one target before resolving the firing against the other.

This is, of course, assuming the unit has a rule that allows them to split fire.

 doctortom wrote:
The unit declares all the shooting it's going to do before anything is rolled.Then you resolve the firing against one target before resolving the firing against the other.

This is, of course, assuming the unit has a rule that allows them to split fire.

Well the stupid interaction here is character protection. A single unit can not clear a screen with half it's shots and then shoot a screened character with the other half. It literally can't declare the Character as a target because it isn't a target yet (even though it could be based on split fire and destroying the screen). It just seems silly to me that a character is protected from being declared a target based a unit split firing BUT like in this example - if you splitfire and kill the ancient fire - other units the unit shoots at do not benefit from his rules.

Unless the shooting unit has snipers, or a similar rule that allows them to target characters. The ancient could also be in a bad spot (because of bad deployment, or the protecting unit already suffered losses, making the character targetable), which allows the shooting unit to target him. It is possible to split fire on a character and a unit.

Interestingly, if I understand the rules right, it is totally possible to remove models which are within 1" of enemy models first, before removing models which aren't.

I saw a battlerep a few days ago where the marine player had one hellblaster in base contact with a carnifex, while the rest of the squad was more than one inch away. In melee the squad took 2 casualties. He removed the one in b2b-contact first, rolling for the ancient to see if he could fire his pistol or make a melee attack, then removed another hellblaster *which now wasnt within 1 inch anymore* and used the ancient to fire the plasma incenerator.

I never thought about doing this, but I dont see why it shouldnt work, as you can fire one weapon "as if in the shooting phase".