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Hi guys. I'm stuck on the fence and I need someone to give me a good hard shove to one side or the other.

Here are a few test miniatures in various stages of completion to give you a sense of where I'm going:



As you can see, this conversion project is going for a feudal/warhammer fantasy feel, but with enough 40k mixed in so that you still know what you're looking at. The basic formula for the guardsmen on the left is Flagellant Legs ---> Cadian Torso -----> Bretonnian or Flagellant Head ----> with Skitarii Rifles as Lasguns. (I was lucky enough to pick up about 150 Bretonnian heads before they went extinct, so I'm not going to run out any time soon.)

I've painted up about 30 of those dudes, and I really like how they're coming out. They look unique, but I think if I put them on a table someone would be able to tell "oh, those are the regular infantry." I don't play much these days, but play-ability is still somewhat of a concern for me.

My problem is with how I'm going to differentiate Veterans and Scions from each other and from the regular infantry, while still letting someone who's not me have a fighting chance of figuring out what they are if I put them on a table. The two guys in the middle are my prototypes, and I'm not really happy with them. I'm using more empire pieces to make the officers in the army look distinct from the regular grunts like that astropath on the far right. For Vets/Scions I settled on Greatsword Legs ----> Grave Guard Breastplates -----> and Skitarii Vanguard Helmets with the same Skit Rifles, but now I realize that having my "scions" and regular infantry armed with the same gun is a big problem.

My question: Should I just give in and use the regular Scion torsos/hotshot guns on top of the greatsword legs for scions? And keep my current configuration for Vets? I have a bunch of the Skitarii carbines that I considered using as the hot-shot lasguns, but if I did that I think this would start looking more like a converted skitarii force than a guard one. I've been using the scion torsos for an inquisitorial henchmen force that I've mostly given up on, so I have a few laying around... On the other hand, could I get away with keeping the Grave Guard torsos for both Vets and Scions, but just use the hotshot guns to differentiate the Scions?

Thoughts?

So...your Scions are the guys with the Skitarii helmets? And your other guys are everyone else without a Skitarii helmet? I think I could keep track of that pretty easily if you told me before a game.

Some differentiation between weapon types would certainly be preferable, but if it's a Lasgun or a Hot-Shot Lasgun, I don't see a huge problem with them looking similar. I'd be willing to bet there have been more than a few Master-Crafted Bolt-guns or Powerswords across Astartes armies that have been represented on the tabletop by very pedestrian looking models.

It will become more difficult if you start putting in other weapon types though. Since most Imperium armies have pretty similar looks for each "type" of weapon, too major variations from these can make it difficult to keep track of what's what.

Yeah, I was confusing. I've got regular Guard, Veteran Guard, and Scions.

Guard: Flagellant Legs ---> Cadian Torso ---> Bretonnian Head
Vet: Greatsword Legs ---> Graveguard Torso ---> Skitarii Helmet
Scion: Greatsword Legs ---> ????

My original plan was to have Scions and Veterans more or less be the same basic scheme, but maybe differentiate them with a different paint scheme.

I'm starting to worry that I should just use the scion torsos and weapons to keep everything easier to recognize.

With the current state of things, I wouldn’t worry about Vets. They just aren’t as valuable as Scions.

Scions generally have closed-face helmets. Infantry and Vets generally don’t, except for deathkorps, steel legion, and Vostroyan, I think. I’d use the closed helms for Scions.

Regarding Vets, the weapon Load outs tend to give it away. You should be taking 3 specials in a Vet Squad, and Infantry Squads can only take one.

So I wouldn’t worry too much about making the infantry too different to the Vets. A special sergeant and the extra special weapons will do the trick. That way you can mix the “regulars” between infantry and vets.

I’m not sure how you’d do it but could you make up your Zion’s as knights in full armour with hotshots? To represent them being the best equipped

If you've already got the Greatswords kit, you could have basic guardsmen as peasants, just as you've already modelled them. Veterans could then be from the mercantile and lower nobles, with fancy feathered hats from the Greatswords kit. Perhaps each veteran could have a holstered sword from the same kit. That way, your Scions remain completely different from both veterans and generic guardsmen.

The other issue is representing hotshot lasguns - perhaps power cables to a backpack power unit like the regular Scions would be enough of a nod to familiarity that it would fly.

I don't have much to add... maybe consider a bulk buy of 3rd party heads? That gets you lower cost, visually consistent, gives tons of choices, allows whatever mish-mash of body parts, and allows retrofitting without too much grief. Also, color scheme, weapon type, and base size/design all offer differentiation if things are blending together too much.

Mostly I just wanted to point out bourgeoisee's amazing project blog, which will definitely give you some ideas:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/757673.page

 MacPhail wrote:
I don't have much to add... maybe consider a bulk buy of 3rd party heads? That gets you lower cost, visually consistent, gives tons of choices, allows whatever mish-mash of body parts, and allows retrofitting without too much grief. Also, color scheme, weapon type, and base size/design all offer differentiation if things are blending together too much.

Mostly I just wanted to point out bourgeoisee's amazing project blog, which will definitely give you some ideas:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/757673.page

Woooow - I might just have to steal this. Holy-moley. Someone suggested using the greatsword feather hats for my Veterans. I think the idea has merit, but the feathers don't really mesh with the more "robed" look the regular infantry have going on. But on the Scions....? I might have to ditch the Skitarii heads altogether and just glue feather caps to the regular scion helmets like this inspired individual.

I am not a fan of the hat on top of helmet look. I think it’s ridiculous, no harm intended to anyone.

I’d suggest you’d be better off taking the beret heads, removing the berets, and replacing with the feather caps. Hats on helmets is a bad look, in my opinion.

For that matter, having taken a moment to think about what I posted, maybe just use the heads that are attached to the feather caps!

I wouldn't. Keep the beret heads and use them for something else. They're awesome.

Or, add feathers to the berets. It wouldn't be difficult, or expensive, to make some molds to crank out a bunch of GS feathers.

Yeah, I rather like the Beret heads. The second part mentions just using the heads that the hats likely come attached to.