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Similar to the assassins mini codex from White Dwarf.

First the Stratagems: Two are essentially relics, one regains CP (necessary for an army with no real detachments), three are general stratagems, and three are unit specific.

1CP- Psyker Apprehended The primary task of the null maidens is to hunt down unsanctioned psykers. Those untainted by chaos or alien traits may be salvaged and used to feed the Golden Throne.
Use this stratagem after an enemy PSYKER unit is slain by a SISTERS OF SILENCE unit. You gain d3 CP. If the PSYKER has the imperium keyword and was killed during the fight phase rolls of 1 are counted as 2 for this stratagem.

1CP - Voidsheen Cloaks The cloaks worn by the sisters during the early days of the imperium were made of micro-vitrious mesh able to diffract almost any form of energy. Many of these cloaks have become lost to time but some of the strongest still remain. N.B. This item is from the HH rules.
Use this stratagem once per game when a SISTERS OF SILENCE INFANTRY unit is deployed, that unit has a 4+ invulnerable save for the rest of the battle.

1CP - Blackstone Chassis Some vehicles used by the sisterhood have the rare psychic dampening mineral Blackstone built into their frame, making these vehicles just as psychically resistant as the warriors beside them.
Use this stratagem once per game when a SISTERS OF SILENCE VEHICLE is deployed, it gains the Psychic Abomination ability for the rest of the battle.

2CP - Untouchable Soul possessing beings find to it difficult to approach or even look at blanks.
Whenever an enemy unit makes it’s pile in or consolidate moves within 3” of a SISTERS OF SILENCE unit with the psychic abomination ability, role a d3. Subtract that number from the movement value of the model's pile in and consolidate distances to a minimum of 1".

1CP - Anathema The soulless are to immetarials what the unending emptiness of a black hole is to mortals.
During the Fight phase, roll a d6 for each DAEMON model within 3” of a selected SISTERS OF SILENCE unit with the psychic abomination ability, on a 6 that model's unit suffers 1 mortal wound.

1CP - Blank Fear When looking into the eyes of the nulls, one sees naught but a gnawing void. Such a sight brings fear to even the most brave-hearted.
Enemy units suffer -1 LD within 12” of a selected SISTERS OF SILENCE unit with the psychic abomination ability for the remainder of the phase. If they are within 6” subtract 2 instead.

1CP - Condemnor bolt shells Specialized psychically reactive bolt shells can be fired by prosecutors the devastating effect against the psychically sensitive.
Bolters and bolt pistols in a selected PROSECUTOR unit have a damage characteristic of 3 against PSYKERS for the remainder of the phase.

3CP - Relentless pursuit Vigilators will push themselves deep into enemy lines chasing errant witches.
Use this stratagem during the fight phase. A unit of VIGILATORS may be chosen to fight, even if it has already fought this turn. The unit may choose to make it’s pile in and/or consolidate moves towards the nearest enemy PSYKER model instead of the nearest enemy model.

1CP - Hellfire flamers By infusing promethium with flesh melting chemical compounds, witchseekers can purge the mindless pawns between themselves and their prey.
All flamers in a selected WITCHSEEKERS unit wound on a 2+ (except against VEHCILES) for the remainder of the phase.

There are no point adjustments. I don't think they need them.

Some changes to Prosecutors:
* A unit of Prosecutors may replace their bolters with 2 bolt pistols each (from a FW kit).
* Prosecution Protocols- Models in this unit may target enemy Characters that are psykers in the shooting phase, even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If it does so, this unit hits on a 4+ regardless of ballistic skill and modifiers.
This gives them a fixed BS like Dark Reapers when the protocol is active, though it's worse than their usual BS. It's mostly a way to weaken the triple damage stratagem so a max size squad can't delete farseers at will while also ignoring negative hit modifier shenanigans.

General abilities:

Psychic Abomination- This unit cannot be targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way. Subtract two from any psychic, demonic summoning, and deny the witch tests for all units within 18 inches of a unit with this ability (to a maximum of -4). This ability has no effect while this unit is embarked in a transport. Necrons are unaffected by this ability and any stratagem that depends on it or the culuxus assassin keyword.
The abomination rule for the culuxus should be changed to this, as they are both blanks. This will stack with the culuxus in that case. Unlike the current psychic abomination rule, this affects friendly psykers and demonic summoning. It also has double the effect per unit but restricts stratagem usage against necrons.

Witch hunters- Reroll failed wound rolls against psykers in the fight phase. (The same thing they already have)

I'm trying to decide which one of these rules would be better to include to give SoS some more includability. Either give them an ability to mix with Custodes or an Operative Requisition Sanctioned style stratagem, or both. I'm leaning towards Talons of the Emperor for fluff reasons, and it should not become standard procedure to include random units via stratagems.

(Ability) Talons of Emperor- Sisters of Silence can be taken in an Adeptus Custodes detachment. They do not contribute towards minimum unit requirements or transport number, but do contribute to the maximum capacity of a given type of unit in the detachment.

(Stratagem) 2/3CP - Call the Black Ships The Black Ships come in darkness, arriving out of the interstellar deeps to send out their hunters and leave with their psychic quarry.
You can only use this stratagem if your warlord has the imperium keyword. Use this stratagem during deployment. If 2 command points are spent on this stratagem, you may include one Sisters of Silence unit of your choice in your army, if 3 are spent you many include two units You can only use this stratagem once per battle. You must pay reinforcement points for any new unit added to your army in a matched play game.

Is it the intention for SoS to hand out their voidsheen cloaks?

1CP - AnathemaRoll a d6 for each demon model within 1” of a unit with the psychic abomination ability, on a 6 the unit suffers 1 mortal wound.

Should be Daemon. It's a bit weird that it's boardwide, I guess it makes sense if you really want to push pure SoS?

Is the intention of the Blank Fear Stratagem to be boardwide or to target a unit of yours and then have a -1/-2 Ld Aura?

I'd give SoS the Inquisition and Talons of the Emperor keyword and also give Adeptus Custodes the Talons of the Emperor keyword. But they can already be taken with Astra Telepathica HQs so army inclusion isn't a huge problem. I don't think you need any special rules to allow the Custodes to retain their 4+ invul, I think it's fair enough if they lose that when they are part of a Talons Detachment.

Making Necrons immune to the abomination ability is fine, but they only have a WL trait and a single piece of wargear that Deny the Witch, I don't think mentioning them is worth it. I don't think the negative amp needs to be increased from 1 to 2, it makes sense to me that the Culexus is better able to quell psychic powers than SoS through his gear and training. On the other hand I think the SoS ability affecting friendly models is a bad idea, their only current way to be included in an army is with a psyker leading them in a Vanguard Detachment.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't intend for either of those stratagems to be board-wide, I thought "unit" in the singular clear enough for RAW, but I guess not.

I am not happy with adding new keywords, it blurs the line between armies too much. In fact, I don't know why there is the Adeptus Astra Telepathica keyword in the first place. The only units in it are IG psykers and SoS, which are a strange mix. The current ways of including SoS require a detachment slot, which is a lot to give up for such a limited army unless you overly invest in them. I wanted to find ways to add them that don't require detachments, a la assassins.

I mostly intended to protect Necrons from stratagems, but I will admit the exclusion is entirely for lore reasons. That's probably not a good enough reason, but it is funny to have an imperium army that receives bonuses against other imperium armies but detriments against xenos.

The Culuxus is a single dude while SoS come in groups of 5 or more. I think it all probably balances out. As fluffy as a total blank aura is, I don't know of many units that harm their allies (vehicle explosions and Kharn come to mind), so it might be a bad move.

 Eipi10 wrote:
1CP- Psyker Apprehended The primary task of the null maidens is to hunt down unsanctioned psykers. Those untainted by chaos or alien traits may be salvaged and used to feed the Golden Throne.
Use this stratagem after an enemy psyker is slain by a Sisters of Silence unit. You gain 2CP (or 3CP if it has the imperium keyword and was killed during the fight phase).

The Tyranid equivalent to this Stratagem provides D3 CP; that's a guaranteed refund, a probable +1CP, a possible +3CP. By contrast, this is a guaranteed +1CP, and a possible +2CP, with no Fight phase restriction on the baseline version. I appreciate that Sisters don't have much in the way of CP themselves, but that's no reason to make them primarily CP generators for other Imperials.

Note also that against armies with non-character Psyker units - such as Horrors, Wyrdvane, Warlock Conclaves, Zoanthropes, Grey Knights, etc - this Stratagem translates into a very easy +1CP/turn. Bizarrely, thanks to the per-model trigger and the IMPERIUM condition, it's at its most effective against Grey Knights, where the Fight phase provides +2CP/turn if you kill even one model. That's... probably not intended, right?

I would suggest changing this Stratagem to:
"Use this Stratagem when an enemy PSYKER unit is destroyed by a SISTERS OF SILENCE unit from your army. Gain D3 Command Points."

 Eipi10 wrote:
1CP - Voidsheen Cloaks The cloaks worn by the sisters during the early days of the imperium were made of micro-vitrious mesh able to diffract almost any form of energy. Many of these cloaks have become lost to time but some of the strongest still remain. N.B. This item is from the HH rules.
Use this stratagem once per game when a Sisters of Silence infantry unit is deployed, that unit has a 5+ invulnerable save for the rest of the game.

"Use this Stratagem before the battle begins. Select a SISTERS OF SILENCE INFANTRY unit from your army; that unit gains a 5+ invulnerable save for the rest of the game. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle."

 Eipi10 wrote:
1CP - Blackstone Chassis Some vehicles used by the sisterhood have the rare psychic dampening mineral blackstone built into their frame, making these vehicles just as psychically resistant as the warriors beside them.
Use this stratagem once per game when a Sisters of Silence vehicle is deployed, it gains the Psychic Abomination ability for the rest of the game.

Same wording suggestions as above, though I don't think most other "upgrade" Stratagems of this sort come with a "once per game" restriction except for fluff purposes (e.g. Chapter Master).

 Eipi10 wrote:
2CP - Untouchable Soul possessing beings find to it difficult to approach or even look at blanks.
Whenever an enemy unit makes it’s pile in or consolidate moves within 3” of a unit with the psychic abomination ability, role a d3. That number replaces is the distance the models may move, instead of 3”.

This seems... not very good for the price. Although it's bizarrely effective against Hormagaunts, who go from a 6" pile in/consolidate to D3.

 Eipi10 wrote:
1CP - Condemnor bolt shells Specialized psychically reactive bolt shells can be fired by prosecutors the devastating effect against the psychically sensitive.
Bolters and bolt pistols in a Prosecutor unit have a damage characteristic of 3 against psykers for the remainder of the phase.

No thank you! Please remember that Prosecutors can already ignore screening rules to snipe PSYKERS. For 1CP, this Stratagem allows a 6-strong Prosecutor unit to wipe two Warlocks off the board per turn so long as they're within 24". Hell, get them within 12" and that 60-point squad will wipe out a Brood Lord in one round of shooting. A unit of 10 Prosecutors will chew 9 wounds off a Keeper of Secrets in a turn of shooting. That's obscene.

EDIT: Just noticed the change to Prosecution Protocols, still think this is too good.

Voidsheen Cloaks while it would be nice to see then reintroduced in the rules I'm not sure making it a once per army option is a good idea given the exsisting limitations on SoS.
Also while I understand why your go to option was an invulnerable save in 8th edition I suspect the effect would be better represented by a FNP 5+ instead of 3+,5++ as this is basically going be never worth it as a 5++.

What they desperately need however is just 40k rule for Krole as either herself (lore issues) or as a modern equivalent.

I have to say flat 3 damage for condemnor bolt shells does seem a tad over compensation, just make them either Dd3 or D2, still makes a large unit of them super scary but not quite the auto win strategum vrs TS or GK.

Anathema would probably be better if it was 3 inches also it should probably be at either the start of the fight phase or end of the charge phase. As currently it's weak but spamable.

I think i get what your trying to do with the hellfire flamers but what would actually probably be better would be changing it to allow them to move then shoot their flamers in the movement phase to allow your other sisters a nice clear path to a charge.

Ice_can wrote:
Voidsheen Cloaks while it would be nice to see then reintroduced in the rules I'm not sure making it a once per army option is a good idea given the exsisting limitations on SoS.
Also while I understand why your go to option was an invulnerable save in 8th edition I suspect the effect would be better represented by a FNP 5+ instead of 3+,5++ as this is basically going be never worth it as a 5++.

What they desperately need however is just 40k rule for Krole as either herself (lore issues) or as a modern equivalent.

I have to say flat 3 damage for condemnor bolt shells does seem a tad over compensation, just make them either Dd3 or D2, still makes a large unit of them super scary but not quite the auto win strategum vrs TS or GK.

It's actually less of a problem for Thousand Sons because despite being "the" Psychic army, they don't have any PSYKER units except Horrors. There are no Prosperine Acolytes who do a mini-Smite every round, etc; their only psykers are CHARACTERS (who are vulnerable to this, but less so than, say, Greater Daemons or Eldar) and unit champions in the form of Aspiring Sorcerers. A Prosecutor unit who shoots at a Scarab Occult Squad isn't going to benefit from this Stratagem, because only one model in the unit is a PSYKER, and they cannot specifically target him.

RevlidRas wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Voidsheen Cloaks while it would be nice to see then reintroduced in the rules I'm not sure making it a once per army option is a good idea given the exsisting limitations on SoS.
Also while I understand why your go to option was an invulnerable save in 8th edition I suspect the effect would be better represented by a FNP 5+ instead of 3+,5++ as this is basically going be never worth it as a 5++.

What they desperately need however is just 40k rule for Krole as either herself (lore issues) or as a modern equivalent.

I have to say flat 3 damage for condemnor bolt shells does seem a tad over compensation, just make them either Dd3 or D2, still makes a large unit of them super scary but not quite the auto win strategum vrs TS or GK.

It's actually less of a problem for Thousand Sons because despite being "the" Psychic army, they don't have any PSYKER units except Horrors. There are no Prosperine Acolytes who do a mini-Smite every round, etc; their only psykers are CHARACTERS (who are vulnerable to this, but less so than, say, Greater Daemons or Eldar) and unit champions in the form of Aspiring Sorcerers. A Prosecutor unit who shoots at a Scarab Occult Squad isn't going to benefit from this Stratagem, because only one model in the unit is a PSYKER, and they cannot specifically target him.

Did GW finally FAQ/Eratta that as my buddy's TS codex has all the units with Psycher keyword, while thematic it would be an almost auto win option.

RevlidRas wrote:
Note also that against armies with non-character Psyker units - such as Horrors, Wyrdvane, Warlock Conclaves, Zoanthropes, Grey Knights, etc - this Stratagem translates into a very easy +1CP/turn. Bizarrely, thanks to the per-model trigger and the IMPERIUM condition, it's at its most effective against Grey Knights, where the Fight phase provides +2CP/turn if you kill even one model. That's... probably not intended, right?

I did forget the word unit, I need to go back and clarify my keywords. I was comparing this to the assassin stratagem, which gives 2CP per character killed and 3 CP for a warlord.
Although assassins are only a single model, so I see your point. How about "Use this Stratagem when an enemy PSYKER unit is destroyed by a SISTERS OF SILENCE unit from your army. Gain D3 Command Points. If the PSYKER has the IMPERIUM keyword and was slain during the fight phase, rolls of one are counted as two."

RevlidRas wrote:
I don't think most other "upgrade" Stratagems of this sort come with a "once per game" restriction except for fluff purposes (e.g. Chapter Master).

Is the distinction between battle and game for narrative play? I thought they were interchangeable.

RevlidRas wrote:
This seems... not very good for the price. Although it's bizarrely effective against Hormagaunts, who go from a 6" pile in/consolidate to D3.

A 1" pile in and consolidate can really hurt some melee units. That's why I thought to make this a 2CP stratagem. And the player who uses the stratagem rolls the d3, they can use a command CP reroll.
Although I forgot that multiple units can pile in/consolidate more than 3". Would changing the stratagem to subtract d3" from the move work better than what I have now? Maybe with a minimum 1" move.

RevlidRas wrote:
For 1CP, this Stratagem allows a 6-strong Prosecutor unit to wipe two Warlocks off the board per turn so long as they're within 24". Hell, get them within 12" and that 60-point squad will wipe out a Brood Lord in one round of shooting. A unit of 10 Prosecutors will chew 9 wounds off a Keeper of Secrets in a turn of shooting. That's obscene.

I was comparing this stratagem to the Sisters of Battle Blessed Bolts stratagem (or something like that) which gives their bolters 2 damage and AP -2 for 1CP, unless it's been erratad. Even at 3+ BS, I'm not sure where you are getting 2 dead warlocks. Out of rapid-fire range or with MSU the damage is much more reasonable. Then they only do 3 damage against a keeper of secrets and less against other greater daemons. TS and GK have low wound count models and/or good armor saves, so it's not so deadly against them.

Ice_can wrote:
I understand why your go to option was an invulnerable save in 8th edition I suspect the effect would be better represented by a FNP 5+ instead of 3+,5++ as this is basically going be never worth it as a 5++.

Iron Warriors spend 1 CP to get a FNP for one phase, so I don't want to have one that covers the whole battle. Would a 4++ be better or is that too good?
Also, good suggestion for Anathema.

The reason I suggest that it was better as a FNP and why I dont think it's broken as 1CP yet better than iron warriors is that as your limiting it to a single unit, it's not something that can be moved around like the iron warriors one, it's also something that can easily be played around with D2 or D3 weapons.

Ice_can wrote:
The reason I suggest that it was better as a FNP and why I dont think it's broken as 1CP yet better than iron warriors is that as your limiting it to a single unit, it's not something that can be moved around like the iron warriors one, it's also something that can easily be played around with D2 or D3 weapons.

That’s kind of the point, voidsheen cloaks are meant to protect them from super strong weapons, helping them take on greater deamons and the like. It’s not meant to protect them from lots of small attacks.
I was wrong about the balance, but a 4++ might be better than a FNP. I also don’t like the idea of normal humans having a FNP, even roided up ones with archeotech wargear.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Even at 3+ BS, I'm not sure where you are getting 2 dead warlocks.

On BS3+? Six shots, four hits, 2.6 wounds, 1.3 unsaved wounds. That multiplies into 3.9 wounds spread across two 2-wound models.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Out of rapid-fire range or with MSU the damage is much more reasonable. Then they only do 3 damage against a keeper of secrets and less against other greater daemons.

If the problem is rooted in the properties of the guns, why not cut them out of the equation and make it into a Hellfire Shells-equivalent?

 Eipi10 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
The reason I suggest that it was better as a FNP and why I dont think it's broken as 1CP yet better than iron warriors is that as your limiting it to a single unit, it's not something that can be moved around like the iron warriors one, it's also something that can easily be played around with D2 or D3 weapons.

That’s kind of the point, voidsheen cloaks are meant to protect them from super strong weapons, helping them take on greater deamons and the like. It’s not meant to protect them from lots of small attacks.
I was wrong about the balance, but a 4++ might be better than a FNP. I also don’t like the idea of normal humans having a FNP, even roided up ones with archeotech wargear.

The issue is Invulnerable saves don't work against mortal wounds one of the things that they need help against.
Additionally while I get what your saying I'll advocate for what work's better in 8th editions core mechanics over what's fluffy every day. People arn't killing power armour with -2 or 3AP weapons it's watching your 3+ save simply get drowned in take 40 rapid fire lasguns take 40 punisher shots take MW spam, if people where actually pointing lascannons and melta at 3+ armour then an invulnerable save would make a difference but they don't they just drown them and even 2+ saves in 0AP 1D basic weapons that cost 0 points as they're from mandatory CP and Obsec tax units.

RevlidRas wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:
Even at 3+ BS, I'm not sure where you are getting 2 dead warlocks.

On BS3+? Six shots, four hits, 2.6 wounds, 1.3 unsaved wounds. That multiplies into 3.9 wounds spread across two 2-wound models.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Out of rapid-fire range or with MSU the damage is much more reasonable. Then they only do 3 damage against a keeper of secrets and less against other greater daemons.

If the problem is rooted in the properties of the guns, why not cut them out of the equation and make it into a Hellfire Shells-equivalent?

Normal wounds don't carry over, you get 1.3 dead warlocks.

Ice_can wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
The reason I suggest that it was better as a FNP and why I dont think it's broken as 1CP yet better than iron warriors is that as your limiting it to a single unit, it's not something that can be moved around like the iron warriors one, it's also something that can easily be played around with D2 or D3 weapons.

That’s kind of the point, voidsheen cloaks are meant to protect them from super strong weapons, helping them take on greater deamons and the like. It’s not meant to protect them from lots of small attacks.
I was wrong about the balance, but a 4++ might be better than a FNP. I also don’t like the idea of normal humans having a FNP, even roided up ones with archeotech wargear.

The issue is Invulnerable saves don't work against mortal wounds one of the things that they need help against.
Additionally while I get what your saying I'll advocate for what work's better in 8th editions core mechanics over what's fluffy every day. People arn't killing power armour with -2 or 3AP weapons it's watching your 3+ save simply get drowned in take 40 rapid fire lasguns take 40 punisher shots take MW spam, if people where actually pointing lascannons and melta at 3+ armour then an invulnerable save would make a difference but they don't they just drown them and even 2+ saves in 0AP 1D basic weapons that cost 0 points as they're from mandatory CP and Obsec tax units.

I suppose you're right. A 5+++ would give 2.5 to 5 more effective wounds, which seems like a lot for 1CP and I don't want to make it an auto-take but be something more situational. A 6+++ would only give 1 to 2. Might mixing 6+++ FNP and an invuln work better?

 Eipi10 wrote:

I suppose you're right. A 5+++ would give 2.5 to 5 more effective wounds, which seems like a lot for 1CP and I don't want to make it an auto-take but be something more situational. A 6+++ would only give 1 to 2. Might mixing 6+++ FNP and an invuln work better?

Can I ask how your turning a 5+++ into 2.5 to 5 extra wounds?
On 1Wound models it's at maximum (on avarage dice) a 33% increase in survivability on 1 unit out of a minimum of 3 units, even assuming that it's 1 10 and 2 5's that's only a 16.5% increase in the survivability of the detachment people get 16.7% detachment wide traits and people dont take it because it's terrible.
Taking the -1 to hit trait is always better.

Against D2 it basically becomes an 11% reduction
Against D3 or more and your really unlikely to be living

I would almost say that you could go to giving out a 4+++ to the one unit and it wouldn't be game breaking as they have to be taken as a pure SoS detachment ie vanguard with 0CP to gain access to said strategum 1 unit of three gaining a 4+++.
Also as it's once per game that's it's maximum impact if you take more SoS it would be even less of a thing as it would cover less of the total number of SoS on the board.

To calculate the effect of a FNP, you express the odds of FAILING as a fraction, then multiply the number of wounds by the reciprocal.

So, with a 5+++, there's a 2/3 chance of failing. For 1 wound models, that's +50% wounds against D1.

Obviously higher damage throws the calculations off, though.

 JNAProductions wrote:
To calculate the effect of a FNP, you express the odds of FAILING as a fraction, then multiply the number of wounds by the reciprocal.

So, with a 5+++, there's a 2/3 chance of failing. For 1 wound models, that's +50% wounds against D1.

Obviously higher damage throws the calculations off, though.

I don't follow that logic as a 5+++, can only save on avarage 1 in 3 points of damage which isn't a 50% increase in wounds.
It's going to make 2 extra saves over 5 wounds ie msu unit that is 40% against D1 and falls quickly as the weapons Damage increases.

6 SoS need to fail 6 saves before they die. If they have a 5+ FNP and they take 9 wounds, they will ignore 1/3. 9*2/3=6.So 9 unsaved wounds kill them on average. 9/6=1,5.

You need to do a certain amount of damage to kill a unit, but a fraction of the damage is ignored so you need to increase what's left by an amount equal to what is lost. 5+ FNP means 4/6 wounds go through, so 4 wounds need to become 6 again to make up for what is lost. With a 6+ FNP 5/6 wounds go through, so we need to increase 5 back to 6.

6+ FNP is 6/5=1,2.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Normal wounds don't carry over, you get 1.3 dead warlocks.

I direct 3 shots toward Warlock #1. 2 hit, 1.3 wound, 0.6 are unsaved, multiplied into 1.8, round up to 2. Warlock #1 is dead.
I direct 3 shots toward Warlock #2. 2 hit, 1.3 wound, 0.6 are unsaved, multiplied into 1.8, round up to 2. Warlock #2 is dead.

RevlidRas wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:
Normal wounds don't carry over, you get 1.3 dead warlocks.

I direct 3 shots toward Warlock #1. 2 hit, 1.3 wound, 0.6 are unsaved, multiplied into 1.8, round up to 2. Warlock #1 is dead.
I direct 3 shots toward Warlock #2. 2 hit, 1.3 wound, 0.6 are unsaved, multiplied into 1.8, round up to 2. Warlock #2 is dead.

When they're D3 on a 2 Wound model, that doesn't really work.

You CAN kill two Warlocks, but you're not likely to.

Ice_can wrote:

I would almost say that you could go to giving out a 4+++ to the one unit and it wouldn't be game breaking as they have to be taken as a pure SoS detachment ie vanguard with 0CP to gain access to said stratagem 1 unit of three gaining a 4+++.
Also as it's once per game that's it's maximum impact if you take more SoS it would be even less of a thing as it would cover less of the total number of SoS on the board.

Not with Call the Black Ships or some equivalent stratagem, let alone a Talons of the Emperor ability/keyword. As a micro army, SoS need a way to be included without taking a full detachment, possibly as a single unit. Without something to help include them, even a 3+++ will not make the army usable. Sisters of Silence aren't listed on 40kstats.com, Dark Mechanicus is. Once SoS become trivial to include for 2CP with no detachment slot (or possibly nothing for Custodes), how would the best FNP in the game change things? It probably won't affect the meta much, but it would be shocking to encounter.
And besides, This stratagem should be competitive when the invuln is expected to be used, at least a bit. For that, the FNP will need to be subpar. It is meant to protect against powerful weapons and even the best FNP's are not good at that.

That being said, What if the stratagem reduced the wound rolls of all attacks by one? Lasguns wound on a 5+ instead of a 4+, bolters wounding on a 4+, and volcano cannons on a 3+.

 Eipi10 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

I would almost say that you could go to giving out a 4+++ to the one unit and it wouldn't be game breaking as they have to be taken as a pure SoS detachment ie vanguard with 0CP to gain access to said stratagem 1 unit of three gaining a 4+++.
Also as it's once per game that's it's maximum impact if you take more SoS it would be even less of a thing as it would cover less of the total number of SoS on the board.

Not with Call the Black Ships or some equivalent stratagem, let alone a Talons of the Emperor ability/keyword. As a micro army, SoS need a way to be included without taking a full detachment, possibly as a single unit. Without something to help include them, even a 3+++ will not make the army usable. Sisters of Silence aren't listed on 40kstats.com, Dark Mechanicus is. Once SoS become trivial to include for 2CP with no detachment slot (or possibly nothing for Custodes), how would the best FNP in the game change things? It probably won't affect the meta much, but it would be shocking to encounter.
And besides, This stratagem should be competitive when the invuln is expected to be used, at least a bit. For that, the FNP will need to be subpar. It is meant to protect against powerful weapons and even the best FNP's are not good at that.

That being said, What if the stratagem reduced the wound rolls of all attacks by one? Lasguns wound on a 5+ instead of a 4+, bolters wounding on a 4+, and volcano cannons on a 3+.

No you allow the strategum to include the unit, without strategums.
If you want strategums you should have to take a detachment.

I might be baised as someone who actually owns SoS and likes the models and would like to actually be able to field 5 or 6 units of them instead of turning everything into just another cruton to be sprinkled over imperial soup.

You want to bring SoS and strategums bring a detachment of pure SoS. Gw is already trying to push imperium armys as the balancing point so you need 3 codex's a supplement book and a whitedwarf to playany imperium based army. If it's not the main studios latest and greatest enjoy loosing that's bad for balance.

Allowing imperium players to just add a unit would be no better than them being merged into the nuns with guns Codex or downright squatted.

Ice_can wrote:
Allowing imperium players to just add a unit would be no better than them being merged into the nuns with guns Codex or downright squatted.

As much as I don't like it to be true, SoS cannot be a stand-alone army now. They have 1 GW kit, 2 if you count the space marine rhino, and 3 FW kits, one of which is an upgrade spure and the other is a named character exclusive to 30K. The best way to make the most of what they have is to make them into a crouton like the assassins. Adding more bloat to the game is the price that must be paid if you want to use them competitively. There certainly are better solutions to deal with this, but they will require fundamental changes in GW's distribution system as far as I can tell.

As a new army, SoS are in little danger of being squatted any time soon, as long as they gain some popularity over time. If you want to make them popular, you need people to be able to use them competitively in-game. Letting people add one or two units will lower the barrier to entry. Requiring 15+ similarly highly specialized models will not help. Maybe when they get more unit types and an HQ they can be an independent army, but they are too limited as is.

 Eipi10 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Allowing imperium players to just add a unit would be no better than them being merged into the nuns with guns Codex or downright squatted.

As much as I don't like it to be true, SoS cannot be a stand-alone army now. They have 1 GW kit, 2 if you count the space marine rhino, and 3 FW kits, one of which is an upgrade spure and the other is a named character exclusive to 30K. The best way to make the most of what they have is to make them into a crouton like the assassins. Adding more bloat to the game is the price that must be paid if you want to use them competitively. There certainly are better solutions to deal with this, but they will require fundamental changes in GW's distribution system as far as I can tell.

As a new army, SoS are in little danger of being squatted any time soon, as long as they gain some popularity over time. If you want to make them popular, you need people to be able to use them competitively in-game. Letting people add one or two units will lower the barrier to entry. Requiring 15+ similarly highly specialized models will not help. Maybe when they get more unit types and an HQ they can be an independent army, but they are too limited as is.

I've used them in 8th edition and aside from the biggest issue with them lacking strategums relics and warlord traits that would have been in the talons book had GW Main studio not squatted that book.
They need to be cheaper a 3+ save 1 wound model struggles to be effective against Guardsmen and the chear of wracks.