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As titled. Have SFTS for non primaris models. Give a lore explanation that it was populace of Deliverance and Corax that developed wraithslipping in their environment, which Cawl never envisioned.

And why do you think the Primaris won't be able to do it? You know that a decent chunk of Primaris are Legionnaires that were in stasis right?

In other words, "I hate Primaris and I want my army to have overly strong rules again!".

Your proposal has no care for balance and is bad, and you should feel bad for proposing it.

Eadartri wrote:
As titled. Have SFTS for non primaris models. Give a lore explanation that it was populace of Deliverance and Corax that developed wraithslipping in their environment, which Cawl never envisioned.

That fluff explanation doesn't really hold you ponce the RG start building primaris out of Deliverance recruits though, right?

I wouldn't mind a return to sneakier Raven Guard though. Currently, they're a long-ranged shooty chapter rather than a forward-moving infiltrator chapter. Give them some sort of infiltrate or even just a webway style deepstrike stratagem representing dudes hopping out of hiding as the enemy commits to battle. Not to step on GSCs' toes, but I actually think letting RG do some sort of Cult Ambush with blips could be neat.

Eadartri wrote:
As titled. Have SFTS for non primaris models. Give a lore explanation that it was populace of Deliverance and Corax that developed wraithslipping in their environment, which Cawl never envisioned.

except that the primaris are 1: recruited from their chapter home worlds. 2: not all primaris are from Mars by now many where raised up natively by their chapters. blood ravens, for example, where specificly noted to have only been granted the secret of primaris creation, but are described as having "hundreds of primaris marines"

Wyldhunt wrote:

Eadartri wrote:
As titled. Have SFTS for non primaris models. Give a lore explanation that it was populace of Deliverance and Corax that developed wraithslipping in their environment, which Cawl never envisioned.

That fluff explanation doesn't really hold you ponce the RG start building primaris out of Deliverance recruits though, right?

I wouldn't mind a return to sneakier Raven Guard though. Currently, they're a long-ranged shooty chapter rather than a forward-moving infiltrator chapter. Give them some sort of infiltrate or even just a webway style deepstrike stratagem representing dudes hopping out of hiding as the enemy commits to battle. Not to step on GSCs' toes, but I actually think letting RG do some sort of Cult Ambush with blips could be neat.

That already exists. 1CP STRIKE FROM THE SHADOWS Use this Stratagem during deployment, when you set up a RAVEN GUARD INFANTRY unit from your army. At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, you can move that unit up to 9”. It cannot end this move within 9" of any enemy models. If both players have units that can move before the first turn begins, the player who is taking the first turn moves their units first. Each unit can only be selected for this Stratagem once per battle.

Chapter Tactics were a bad idea in the first place if you removed that then Raven Guard would be the infiltrator chapter rather than the gunline chapter.

 vict0988 wrote:

That already exists. 1CP STRIKE FROM THE SHADOWS Use this Stratagem during deployment, when you set up a RAVEN GUARD INFANTRY unit from your army. At the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, you can move that unit up to 9”. It cannot end this move within 9" of any enemy models. If both players have units that can move before the first turn begins, the player who is taking the first turn moves their units first. Each unit can only be selected for this Stratagem once per battle.

Chapter Tactics were a bad idea in the first place if you removed that then Raven Guard would be the infiltrator chapter rather than the gunline chapter.

The current version of Strike From the Shadows just isn't very good at making them 'sneaky" though. It's not enough movement to let me get mid/short-ranged guns into a good position on turn 1. It doesn't really let me "ambush" things by popping up out of nowhere (deepstriking) and getting in a sucker punch. It isn't enough movement to let me alpha strike with anything that couldn't already alpha strike.

The pregame scout move feels more like a 7th edition World Eaters pregame advance that lets you run screaming at the enemy a little faster. Kind of a fluff/crunch disconnect that doesn't scratch the ambush itch for me.

If a potential 15” turn 1 movement isn’t enough for you, I don’t know what would be. That’s more than enough to get you into double tap range of the opponents front line. It also Puts you 9” against anything deployed 24” away so you’ll make that charge just under half the time.

Also the gameplay you want is hardly entertaining. It sounds like you want a guaranteed alpha strike and that’s not what the game needs at this point. Ambush type battles are not conductive to a balanced game. Remember most tabletop battles represent an anomaly where two even forces have to fight each other. Otherwise for every ambush you pulled off, there would be a dark eldar player explaining why him surrounding you with his army made sense because of the fluff.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
If a potential 15” turn 1 movement isn’t enough for you, I don’t know what would be. That’s more than enough to get you into double tap range of the opponents front line. It also Puts you 9” against anything deployed 24” away so you’ll make that charge just under half the time.

If we're both lined up more or less straight across from each other at the edge of our respective deployment zones, sure. But even then, it feels more like I'm speedy enough to pass an initiative check than that I'm sneaky enough to get the jump on someone. The 9" scout move would be a great White Scars stratagem, but I find it lacking as an ambusher's stratagem. Also, making the charge in less time is kind of meh when my units that actually want to get into melee are generally deepstriking. Heck, a deepstrike strat for Raven Guard would work pretty well!

Also the gameplay you want is hardly entertaining. It sounds like you want a guaranteed alpha strike and that’s not what the game needs at this point. Ambush type battles are not conductive to a balanced game. Remember most tabletop battles represent an anomaly where two even forces have to fight each other.

I get that. I really do. But if we're accepting that being "sneaky" is a quality worth of representing mechanically, then it should be represented mechanically. You don't have to do this through turn 1 alpha strike mechanics. GSC blips could be an interesting way to go. Something like the oldschool mandrake multideployment thing might work. An outflank or deepstrike strat would be great. Even something in the vein of land mines or 30k-style/oldschool Lias Issodon style sabotage wounds would kind of get the message across. I'd take a less powerful strat if it was also a more appropriately flavorful strat.

Otherwise for every ambush you pulled off, there would be a dark eldar player explaining why him surrounding you with his army made sense because of the fluff.

I kind of love playing missions that represent one army being surrounded by another. As the surrounder, it feels like I'm representing my army's mobility and cunning. And the surroundee, my army gets to feel like a bunch of bamfs holding their ground against impossible odds! It's actually a lot of fun in casual games if you and your opponent have armies that match the scenario.