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Just wanted to try and formalize and discuss something I pitched in this thread: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781759.page

At the moment, stratagems can generally be categorized as...

* Assets: These include weapons, special ammo (flakk missiles, haywire grenades), relics, and unit upgrades (like "Chapter Master" or "Great Harlequin.")

* Tactics: Impressive above-and-beyond actions performed by a single squad or model. The various intercessor "shoot better with a certain gun" strats fall into this category. So do Lightning Fast Reactions, fight/shoot twice strats, fall back and shoot/charge strats, and so forth.

* Strategems: High-level, sweeping approaches to the battle that generally represent pre-game decisions. Strats that let you (re)deploy in unusual ways, orbital strikes, Agents of Vect would all fall into this category.

Now I like stratagems, but between the sheer number of them, the tendency for some strats to be too situtational or weak to ever see play, the issues with CP generation, etc, I feel that the concept could be improved upon. And oddly, I think the way to improve on stratagems is to make most of them, well, not stratagems. So here's what I'm pitching:

* Assets stop being stratagems and become normal wargear/datasheets. If you want a chapter master, pay X points for whatever benefits being a chapter master gets you. if you want scar boyz, pay X points per model in the unit you're upgrading. If you want flakk missiles, pay the points for a third profile on your missile launcher. If you want haywire grenades, pay x points per model in a squad to give all models in that squad access to a Grenade weapon with a rule similar to that of the haywire blaster.

* Most character auras go away. Instead of offering rerolls to hit and to wound, your captains and lieutenants can command a unit within x" to use a "tactic" during your turn. Some tactics might basically be the old reroll auras.

* Some tactics can be used during your opponent's turn. Using a tactic during your opponent's turn prevents your character from using a tactic on your following turn. You use it up in advance, basically.

* Stratagems work basically the way they do now, but you "buy" them pregame. So you can call down multiple orbital strikes or use Agents of Vect as many times as you want, but you have to put those plans into motion before (during?) deployment.

* Both players start the game with X CP where X is based on game size. 3CP per 500 points feels about right.

* CP not spent on stratagems pregame may be spent to to have a character use an additional tactic on a given turn OR to have a character use a tactic even if they used one during your opponent's previous turn.


My hope is that these changes would:
* Reduce the amount of rerolling in a given game
* Add the feeling that characters are actually giving commands and leading your forces rather than just yelling, "KILL BETTER!" at everyone standing near them.
* Ease the disparity between armies that can and cannot generate a bunch of CP.
* Bring back some amount of army customization by putting certain upgrades back on the army roster.
* Make it so that certain fluffy options aren't competing for CP with your strongest strats.

And yes, obviously you might have to recost or change certain strats and former strats with these changes.

Thoughts?

I like it, the problem is the main rulebook goes off course immediately with the rules for Battleforged Armies, so you'd have to rework that. I think I'd need to see the system implemented before believing it to actually be better and not just an alternative, but I'm one of the people that love the idea of Stratagems.

At least HEROIC MORALE is what you would count as a Tactic. You could also work it into datasheets as an option for making them Fearless for x number of pts per unit/model, but I wouldn't say it's something that's set up before the battle. COUNTER-OFFENSIVE and COMMAND RE-ROLL are more ambiguous, but both could be Tactics but having the power to re-roll a dice if it comes out wrong makes me feel in control of my battles.

I really like having choice and giving characters a free Stratagem to dish out each turn would do that in the same way Stratagems work, but I'm a bit worried whether there will be much left in the actual Stratagem list. You could say that an Orbital Strike is actually part of your army or a tactic implemented by the Chapter Master because he has the authority to make one of the ships under his command divert attention from space conflicts into the small world of a 40k game.

I think the best change is the removal of re-roll auras and abilities, those are not great for the game IMO. Another thing you could add on top of the idea is making Chapter Tactics into actual Tactics that all models with a Tactic can choose to do instead of one of their Tactics each turn. That's starting to get into 9th edition territory though.

 vict0988 wrote:
I like it, the problem is the main rulebook goes off course immediately with the rules for Battleforged Armies, so you'd have to rework that. I think I'd need to see the system implemented before believing it to actually be better and not just an alternative, but I'm one of the people that love the idea of Stratagems.

Thanks! And I totally get it. If this idea gets any traction, I might spend some time whipping up thorough examples of what this might look like for different armies.

As far as battleforged armies, I'm kind of a fan of just letting people field whatever units they want. If troops and HQs are too poorly designed to be desirable in their own right, then they should be improved (or other things should be toned down). "Tactics" can actually help with this. Making some tactics only benefit troops can give you a reason to field units that might not have as much raw power as elite units. So sternguard and devastators can shoot more efficiently than your troops, but only your troops have access to things like auspex scanning deepstriking foes, using the intercessor-only bolter tactics, etc.

At least HEROIC MORALE is what you would count as a Tactic. You could also work it into datasheets as an option for making them Fearless for x number of pts per unit/model, but I wouldn't say it's something that's set up before the battle. COUNTER-OFFENSIVE and COMMAND RE-ROLL are more ambiguous, but both could be Tactics but having the power to re-roll a dice if it comes out wrong makes me feel in control of my battles.

Heroic Morale and Counter-Offensive are great examples of Tactics (which I'm starting to think should be called Feats or Commands or something). I'm really torn on the Command Re-Roll. On one hand, it is nice to feel like you have a little more control over those crucial rolls; rolling the first 1 on a 2+ save stings, but the second 1 feels like it was meant to be. On the other hand, it doesn't really fit as a Tactic, and not being able to influence clutch rolls does have its own benefits. Maybe it should exist as a third use for unspent Command Points during a battle?

I really like having choice and giving characters a free Stratagem to dish out each turn would do that in the same way Stratagems work, but I'm a bit worried whether there will be much left in the actual Stratagem list.

The thing is, I'm not sure there really needs to be. Stratagems would feel like big, large-scale rules that dramatically change the way your army plays, but not having any stratagems at all would just mean you have that many more CP to spend on using extra Tactics. Though obviously it's probably best to give all armies access to at least a few strats.

You could say that an Orbital Strike is actually part of your army or a tactic implemented by the Chapter Master because he has the authority to make one of the ships under his command divert attention from space conflicts into the small world of a 40k game.

Reasonable people could make that argument. Personally, I see orbital strikes as something that takes a lot of setup in advance (I feel like I've read that a macro cannon takes something like 30 minutes to load a shot into). Between loading the gun and getting a lock on a battlefield target accurate to within a few meters, I always saw this as something the warlord ordered your ship to start working on well in advance, thus why those tend to be once per game effects.

"We'll be fighting in an hour. Keep a cannon trained on my position and awaiting my orders to fire."


So you could reasonably tell more guns to be awaiting a similar order, but that would eat into your pre-battle planning budget (i.e. CP).

I think the best change is the removal of re-roll auras and abilities, those are not great for the game IMO. Another thing you could add on top of the idea is making Chapter Tactics into actual Tactics that all models with a Tactic can choose to do instead of one of their Tactics each turn. That's starting to get into 9th edition territory though.

Yeah. I'm not opposed to there being some amount of reroll auras, but moving away from bubble hammer, generally speaking, seems like a good move. Changing such abilities into more of a My Will Be Done type effect puts a cap on how many units can be impacted by a buff (making it easier to guestimate how many points worth of stuff you're likely to be buffing). Plus, it feels like you're actively making decisions for your army rather than simply building the most efficient reroll machine.

Some chapter tactics could probably be turned into orders. Instead of the Flayed Skull kabal getting rerolls all over the place, for instance, you could make their chapter tactic into...

Characters in a Flayed Skull Kabal have access to this Tactic. During your shooting phase, select an enemy unit within 24" of your character or a transport in which he is embarked. Flayed Skull models with fly or embarked upon a transport that target that unit may reroll to-hit rolls of 1. The targeted unit does not receive the benefit of cover against ranged attacks made by Flayed Skull units. This tactic lasts until the end of the shooting phase.

Something like that.

I agree with limiting bubble abilities but i do believe that the ork waaagh! Abilities make sense as is since the boss is the driving force of the waaagh.