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Dagger of Tu’Sakh, Astra Militarum, Aggressors or Bullygryns?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Hello,
I am seeking Tactical Advice.

So I play Astra Militarum, specifically Cadia.
I have been doing research into the relic “Dagger of Tu’Sakh”
The Dagger allows you to flank the bearer (must be an OFFICER) and one INFANTRY unit with the same <REGIMENT> keyword if the bearer has one.
That last bit basically means if you could find an officer without a regiment keyword, then you can take any infantry unit, no matter the regiment or if it even has one. You might also notice it doesn’t even mention keyword ASTRA MILITARUM anywhere there. Meaning you could take any infantry unit.
There is only 1 officer without a regiment, the Officer of the Fleet. His subfaction is AERONAUTICA IMPERIALIS which like Militarum Auxilla or Officio Prefectus, is not a regiment. So he can bring anything with him if he has the dagger.


So I am now deciding between Aggressors or Bullgryns to take with the Officer.
I play mostly against Necron and Admech in my gaming group but sometimes fight other armies.

I’ve done some thinking,
Aggressors are a lot better in range, and since the dagger isn’t a true deepstrike, it’s just deploying in the enemy zone. The aggressor would be standing still if i can get them in range. Aggressors struggle against armoured targets. Making them worse against Admech. Aggressors would perform admirably against necrons though I doubt they’d last long. Against toughness 6 necron vehicles Aggressors would perform ok due to the sheer volume of shots.
Bullgryns would suck if charged into necron warriors. They don’t have the attacks to kill enough for them to even make a difference against re-animation protocols. However if charged into a more valuable target with a low-ish toughness, like a doomsday ark, i think bullgryns could make a difference.
Bullgryns could tie down and even possibly kill Kastellan Robots, aggressors would struggle.

I’ve done some dice rolling tests against a doomsday ark, 20 necron warriors, Kastellan Robots and Skitarii Vanguard.
The Aggressors did more damage against Infantry like Warriors and Vanguard, They did the same amount against a doomsday ark and Bullgryns did more against Kastellan Robots.

Bullgryns can take more beating then Aggressors, and do more damage to armoured targets. Aggressors can do way more against infantry. My army has a bunch of high profile anti infantry already in the form of a Wyvern, mortars and a Punisher.
My army does have anti armour in the form of an Executioner, Battle Tank and Lascannons.
Whether I choose Bullgryns or aggressors they’re gonna be a damaging distraction. Bullgryns will last longer but if they can’t get in melee they might not even be a distraction, the Necron opponent will probably run away and ignore them. At least aggressors will force the enemy to put them down.


It’s important to note bullgryns couldn’t be in a position to get buffed. Their wouldn’t be any psykers or priests nearby, they’d just have the fleet officer. So I couldn’t give them the 3++ save



I’ve hummed and hawed for weeks, I just can’t choose between heavy hitting melee tanks or sheer bolt storm. They both seem very evenly matched against what I’m fighting. Aggressors would just be a ton of shots into the enemy on turn 1. Bullgryns could get in combat with a unit and hold it down or kill it.

Both are a distraction. I feel against Admech bullgryns would be a lot better due to be able to actually tie down enemy units. Aggressors aren’t bad in melee either. So They can handle admech.
Against Necrons, Aggressors would be better.

I have come here seeking others opinions? What do you guys think? Aggressors or Bullgryns? or maybe a completely different unit in a similar points range? (110-130ish)


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/23 23:38:52


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Might want to check FAQ for the AM...

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Well that answers my question.

Bullgryns it is!

I’m very bad at remembering to check FAQ’s.

Thanks for the help!
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Sorry, it doesn't work at all. Because of this line:

If an ASTRA MILITARUM datasheet does not specify which regiment it is drawn from, it will have the <REGIMENT> keyword.


So the officer of the fleet is an astra militarum datasheet, without the <regiment> keyword. This must mean that it already has a regiment keyword. So, by process of elimination, Aeronautica Imperialis is actually a regiment keyword. So the dagger would only work with other Aeronautica units.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Aeronautica Imperialis is not a regiment keyword.

A regiment keyword is the “<REGIMENT>” keyword or anything that can fill the blank regiment keyword (aka a regiment trait).
Considering you can’t take Aeronautica Imperialis guardsmen, it clearly cannot fill the <REGIMENT> keyword, therefore, it’s not a regiment. It can only be a regiment if it can fill a blank regiment keyword, exception is Tempestus Scions, but they are specifically noted as an exception in the codex.
Since Aeronautica Imperialis is never mentioned as a regiment in the regiments section, and doesn’t have a trait, it can’t fill a blank <REGIMENT>.
So you cannot take Aeronautica Imperialis Guardsmen or Commanders, therefor it is not a regiment.

Similar to how Officio Prefectus, Militarum Auxilla and Adeptus Ministorum are not regiments.

Not every unit in the guard codex must or does belong to a regiment (some purposefully aren’t in regiments so that they can never be ordered (ogryns, ordered ogryns would be way too OP.)).
There is no reason to assume a Aeronautica Imperialis is a regiment if Officio Prefectus isn’t. So you wouldn’t do process of elimination, not every guard unit needs or has a regiment keyword.

Though no FAQ has commented on Aeronautica Imperialis specifically, they have have commented on Officio Prefectus in the form of the master of command warlord trait.
A commissar is not part of a regiment therefore if he has this warlord trait he can order any regiment keyword. So they confirmed his Officio Prefectus Keyword is not a regiment.
Meaning, the common misconception that these imperial agent Latin keywords are unique and traitless regiments is defunct, they are just keywords, assigned cause every unit needs a specific keyword like this. They weren’t intended to ever be considered regiments.
   
 
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