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2020/02/29 00:36:49
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
The new exarch powers in Phoenix Rising are very welcome. However, some of them are considerably more powerful than others meaning that many of these new options are hard to justify taking. So, in the interest of encouraging players to use a wider variety of these powers, I propose the following:
* Exarch powers, including the ones from the codex, are broken up into Greater and Lesser powers.
* An exarch can take either 1 greater power or 2 lesser powers.
* Change the "Exemplar of the _____ Shrine" stratagems to be usable any number of times each (so you can give all three of your banshee exarchs an extra power, for instance). Note that these still only give you a single additional power regardless of whether that power is Greater or Lesser.
And then break up the powers to be something like this:
Fire Dragons Greater: Dragon's Bite, Burning Heat
Lesser: Crackshot, Tank Killer, Burning Fists, Swift Step, Wall of Fire
Dire Avengers Greater: Bladestorm, Defend, Avenging Strikes
Lesser: Battle Fortune, Stand Firm, Martial Adept, Shredding Fire
Dark Reapers Greater: Rapid Shot, Rain of Death, Focused Fire
Lesser: Crackshot, Grim Visage, Long-ranged Fire, Deadly Touch
Crimson Hunter Greater: Marksman's Eye*, Aerial Predator, Strafing Assault
Lesser: Evade, Eyes of Khaine, Aerial Maneuvering
* This is basically Crackshot, but the crimson hunter packs more firepower than either a fire dragon or dark reaper exarch.
Warp Spiders Greater: Surprise Assault, Web of Deceit
Lesser: Iron Resolve, Withdraw*, Spider's Lair, Flickering Assault, Spider's Bite
*Withdraw is less useful on spiders than on scorpions or spears as spiders basically have fly and don't particularly want to be in melee.
And because we're talking exarch powers, here's my pitch for Shadow Specter powers.
Shadow Specters Greater: Ghostlight, Mist and Shadows, Suppressing Fire
Lesser: Shadow of Death, Flickering Lights, Spectral Evasion, Sevenfold Lance
Flickering Lights: Add +2 to wound rolls made against Vehicles using the exarch's haywire launcher.
Ghostlight: When a unit containing an exarch with this power shoots in the shooting phase, you may give up the shooting of all models except the exarch. Improve the Strength, AP, and Damage of the exarch's prism blaster or prism rifle (coherent) by for each model in the squad other than the exarch. Increase the range of the exarch's prism blaster or prism rifle (coherent) by 6" for each model in the unit. When using this ability, the exarch's weapon may never generate more than a single hit.
Suppressing Fire: Per Swooping Hawks
Mist and Shadows: The unit may begin the game in deepstrike and may arrive anywhere on the table at least 9" away from enemy units.
Spectral Evasion: You may use the Fire and Fade stratagem on this unit even if you've already used that stratagem during this phase. This does not prevent you from using Fire and Fade on another unit later in the phase.
Sevenfold Lance: The exarch's prism rifle or prism blaster may generate up to 6 hits instead of 3.
What do you think? Daft concept in general? How do those specter powers look?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/29 03:56:48
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/02/29 01:23:53
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
Ive been giving it some though considering the new FW books are on the horizon its a good bet specters will get exarch powers.
The current power is worthless so anything will be an improvement really lol.
I like the seven fold lance type of power and also the Ghostlight. I think both are fairly unique.
I would also propose:
(6" auto advance) Spectral Grace: As long as this unit contains a shadow specters exarch. It can advance 6" instead of rolling a D6 when moving.
(-1 to hit if does not fire any weapons) Sunburst: If this unit contains a shadow sepcters exarch, This unit can trigger its sun grenades to blind enemies. This unit may choose not to fire any of its weapons during your shooting phase. If it does so, subtract 1 from any to hit rolls made by enemy shooting attacks against this unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/29 01:24:13
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I like the seven fold lance type of power and also the Ghostlight. I think both are fairly unique.
Thanks! Ghostlight is a throwback to the old rules for specters where they could link their shots up fire prism style. It never really worked in past editions because a single shot could only do so much damage (you needed a maxed out squad to have a chance of killing a vehicle with it), but the introduction of Damage this edition means that it finally makes sense! One thing I meant to include and totally forgot to was that ghostlight can't generate more than a single hit. One super shot doing a flat 6 damage might be okay. 3 of them out of a single unit might be a bit much. I've updated the opening post to reflect this.
I would also propose:
(6" auto advance)
Spectral Grace: As long as this unit contains a shadow specters exarch. It can advance 6" instead of rolling a D6 when moving.
Seems very reasonable. My only concern is that it's straight up better than fire dragons' swift step. I... wouldn't mind making Swift Step do basically what "Spectral Grace" does, really. It doesn't seem broken to let dragons and spectres run into range reliably. I just worry about giving specters a better version of another aspect's rule.
(-1 to hit if does not fire any weapons)
Sunburst: If this unit contains a shadow sepcters exarch, This unit can trigger its sun grenades to blind enemies. This unit may choose not to fire any of its weapons during your shooting phase. If it does so, subtract 1 from any to hit rolls made by enemy shooting attacks against this unit.
I'm a little unclear on what you mean on this one. How long does the -1 to hit last? Until the end of the turn like other "Blind" rules? Until the eldar player's next turn? If it only lasts until the end of your own turn, then it's really only useful if you intend to charge your spectres into something on your own turn instead of shooting at said unit. Which seems unlikely given that spectres are killy enough against most targets that you'd probably want to shoot them at anything short of a knight. If it's meant to last into your opponent's turn, I feel like stacking to-hit penalties might be too much. Alaitoc specters with this rule would be at a -3 to hit any time they're not in range to fire their own guns.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/02/29 08:55:14
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
How about re-writing them instead? I also think it's silly that the regular Aspect Warriors don't cost less than the Exarchs.
Spoiler:
Fire Dragons Power Goal: Dragon's Bite, Burning Heat
Crackshot: When resolving a shooting attack by this unit's Fire Dragon Exarch’s it hits automatically.
Tank Killer: When resolving an attack by this unit’s Fire Dragon Exarch against a VEHICLE add +2 to the Damage characteristic of the weapon.
Burning Fists: Add 1 to Wound rolls for this unit in the Fight phase and increase the AP of this unit's weapons by 1 in the Fight phase.
Swift Step: Add 1" to this unit's Movement Characteristic, Advance and Charge rolls.
Wall of Fire: Re-roll failed hit rolls and wound rolls for this unit when it fires Overwatch. In addition, increase the range of any Dragon’s breath flamers this unit is armed with by 4".
Dire Avengers Power Goal: Bladestorm, Defend, Avenging Strikes
Battle Fortune: The Dire Avenger Exarch has a 4+ invulnerable save and treats weapons with a Damage characteristic of D3 or 2 as having a Damage characteristic of 1.
Martial Adept: This unit’s Dire Avenger Exarch has a Weapons Skill and Ballistic Skill characteristic of 2+ and an Attacks characteristic of 3.
Shredding Fire: Ranged weapons that do not have the Grenade type that this unit’s Dire Avenger Exarch is equipped with have an Armour Penetration characteristic of -6 and its Abilities text reads ‘-’.
Stand Firm: Whilst this unit contains a Dire Avenger Exarch, when a Morale test is taken for this unit, do not roll the dice; it is automatically passed. In addition, increase the Wounds characteristic of this unit's Dire Avenger Exarch by 1.
Dark Reapers Power Goal: Rapid Shot, Focused Fire
Crackshot: When resolving a shooting attack by this unit's Dark Reaper Exarch’s it hits automatically.
Deadly Touch: When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by this unit’s Dark Reaper Exarch, a wound roll of 5+ inflicts 2 mortal wounds on the target in addition to any other damage.
Grim Visage: Whilst this unit contains a Dark Reaper Exarch each model they destroy counts as two models for the purpose of morale.
Long-ranged Fire: Whilst this unit contains a Dark Reaper Exarch, add 12" to the Range characteristic of ranged weapons models in this unit are equipped with.
Rain of Death: Rain of Death: When this unit’s Dark Reaper Exarch shoots, you can re-roll the dice to determine the number of attacks
Howling Banshees Power Goal: War Shout, Graceful Avoidance
Decapitating Strikes: While this unit contains a Howling Banshee Exarch increase the Damage characteristic of all attacks made in the Fight phase by this unit by 1.
Disarming Strike: At the start of the Fight phase, you can select one enemy INFANTRY or BIKE model within 1" of this unit’s Howling Banshee Exarch. Until the end of that phase, all that model's attacks must be made with the close combat weapon profile.
Nerve-Shredding Shriek: When this unit finishes a charge move, enemy units within 12" of this unit's Howling Banshee Exarch may not fire Overwatch until the end of the phase.
Piercing Strike: Re-roll failed wound rolls in the Fight phase for this unit while it contains a Howling Banshee Exarch.
Whirling Blades: At the end of your Fight phase this unit can Fight again if it contains a Howling Banshee Exarch and has already fought this phase.
Swooping Hawks Power Goal: 1CP, none of these are worth 1CP.
Evade: Whilst this unit contains a Swooping Hawk Exarch, models in this unit have a 5+ invulnerable save. This save is increased to a 4+ until the start of your next turn when this unit advances or uses the Children of Baharroth ability.
Fast Shot: This unit’s Swooping Hawk Exarch can fire 2 additional shots while shooting with a sunrifle, 3 additional shots while shooting with a Hawk's Talon or 4 additional shots while shooting with a lasblaster.
Herald of Victory: You can add 1 to the Leadership of friendly <CRAFTWORLD> units within 12" of this unit's Swooping Hawk Exarch.
Intercept: While this unit contains a Swooping Hawk Exarch add +1 to hit rolls and wound rolls for this unit against units with the FLY keyword.
Suppressing Fire: The first time this unit’s Swooping Hawk Exarch fires Overwatch in your opponent’s turn, this unit can, after it has resolved its Overwatch, move up to 6" as if it were your Movement phase.
Swooping Barrage: Whilst this unit contains a Swooping Hawk Exarch, add 1 to rolls made for this unit’s Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack ability. In addition, roll three dice for each model in the enemy unit (to a maximum of 1 per model in this unit).
Rapid Assault: You may re-roll charge rolls for this unit if it contains a Swooping Hawk Exarch. In addition, add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit's Swooping Hawk Exarch if this unit charged this turn.
Striking Scorpions Power Goal: Stalker, Withdraw
Ambush: Whilst this unit contains a Striking Scorpion this unit can always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they did not charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place. In addition, add 2 to the Striking Scorpion Exarch's Strength characteristic against a unit entirely on or within a terrain feature.
Crushing Blow: If it contains a Striking Scorpion Exarch add 1 to the AP characteristic of all attacks made by this unit in the Fight phase.
Scorpion's Grasp: Roll a D6 when an enemy non-VEHICLE, non-MONSTER, non-TITANIC unit attempts to Fall Back from within 1" of this unit's Striking Scorpion Exarch, on a roll of 4+ the unit cannot Fall Back this turn.
Scorpion's Sting: Whilst this unit contains a Striking Scorpion Exarch, add 1 to rolls made for this unit’s Mandiblasters ability and this unit's Mandiblasters ability may be used on units without the INFANTRY keyword.
Sustained Attack: Add 1 to the Striking Scorpion Exarch's Attacks characteristic. Add an additional D3 attacks to the Striking Scorpion Exarch's Attacks characteristic if this unit did not charge and was not charged this turn.
Shining Spears Power Goal: Expert Hunter, Withdraw
Blademaster: No change, the blade just needs to come way down in pts, somewhere around 2-4.
Heartstrike: Subtract 1 from saving throws made against attacks made by this unit's Shining Spear Exarch in the Fight phase.
Lancer: When resolving an attack made with a laser lance or star lance by this unit’s Shining Spear Exarch, a hit roll of 6+ scores 1 additional hit.
Skilled Rider: This unit's Shining Spear Exarch has a 3+ invulnerable save.
Swooping Dive: Whilst this unit contains a Shining Spear Exarch, when a charge roll is made for this unit, add 2 to the result.
Crimson Hunter Power Goal: Marksman's Eye, Aerial Predator
Aerial Maneuvering: Increase this unit's maximum Movement characteristic by 20" and when it pivots before moving it can pivot up to 180°.
Eyes of Khaine: This unit can target enemies that are not visible to the firing unit. In addition, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by this model, the target does not receive the benefit of cover to its saving throw.
Evade: This model has a 5+ invulnerable save, increased to a 4+ invulnerable save against melee attacks.
Strafing Assault: Add 1 to Wound rolls for this model against units that do not have the FLY keyword.
Warp Spiders Power Goal: Surprise Assault, Web of Deceit, Withdraw
Flickering Assault: Whilst this unit contains a Warp Spider Exarch, models in this unit can pile in up to 6" instead of 3". In addition, whilst this unit contains a Warp Spider Exarch add 3" to charge rolls made for this unit.
Iron Resolve: Add 2 to the Leadership characteristic of this unit's Warp Spider Exarch.
Spider's Bite: Change the Damage characteristic of the Warp Spider Exarch's melee attacks to 2. In addition, whilst this unit contains a Warp Spider Exarch add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models in this unit.
Spider's Lair: Change this unit's Sv characteristic to 2+ whilst it contains a Warp Spider Exarch and is entirely on or within a terrain feature.
I think having three abilities on every Exarch is over the top, that's my only real criticism I think. The fact they missed Specters is typical GW, just proves again that FW should be in the codexes so they don't forget, I'd forget it myself. You also forgot to type how much the stats of the ghost rifle is improved by with the ghostlight ability.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/02/29 12:15:25
2020/02/29 10:54:40
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
I like the seven fold lance type of power and also the Ghostlight. I think both are fairly unique.
Thanks! Ghostlight is a throwback to the old rules for specters where they could link their shots up fire prism style. It never really worked in past editions because a single shot could only do so much damage (you needed a maxed out squad to have a chance of killing a vehicle with it), but the introduction of Damage this edition means that it finally makes sense! One thing I meant to include and totally forgot to was that ghostlight can't generate more than a single hit. One super shot doing a flat 6 damage might be okay. 3 of them out of a single unit might be a bit much. I've updated the opening post to reflect this.
I would also propose:
(6" auto advance) Spectral Grace: As long as this unit contains a shadow specters exarch. It can advance 6" instead of rolling a D6 when moving.
Seems very reasonable. My only concern is that it's straight up better than fire dragons' swift step. I... wouldn't mind making Swift Step do basically what "Spectral Grace" does, really. It doesn't seem broken to let dragons and spectres run into range reliably. I just worry about giving specters a better version of another aspect's rule.
(-1 to hit if does not fire any weapons) Sunburst: If this unit contains a shadow sepcters exarch, This unit can trigger its sun grenades to blind enemies. This unit may choose not to fire any of its weapons during your shooting phase. If it does so, subtract 1 from any to hit rolls made by enemy shooting attacks against this unit.
I'm a little unclear on what you mean on this one. How long does the -1 to hit last? Until the end of the turn like other "Blind" rules? Until the eldar player's next turn? If it only lasts until the end of your own turn, then it's really only useful if you intend to charge your spectres into something on your own turn instead of shooting at said unit. Which seems unlikely given that spectres are killy enough against most targets that you'd probably want to shoot them at anything short of a knight. If it's meant to last into your opponent's turn, I feel like stacking to-hit penalties might be too much. Alaitoc specters with this rule would be at a -3 to hit any time they're not in range to fire their own guns.
Yeah I meant it as it lasts until your next shooting phase. Basiclay if you forgo your shooting you get better stealth/ghostly ghost stuff.
I agree with the sentiment 3 exarch powers is more than enough. They should all be equivalent/useable and not flat out garbage apart from 1. I think the DA ones were ok as it lets you pick between better exarch dakka, or something to benefit the whole squad (if you take a squad of 10 the latter makes more sense but if you only rock 5 the former seems to be the better option)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/29 15:42:52
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: I think the DA ones were ok as it lets you pick between better exarch dakka, or something to benefit the whole squad (if you take a squad of 10 the latter makes more sense but if you only rock 5 the former seems to be the better option)
The unit-wide buff increases firepower by 25%, double-gun Exarch in a 5-man squad consists of 33% of the firepower, so to get an overall increase in firepower on the whole squad you'd either need to lose models or get an 80% increase in firepower on the Exarch. Against MEQ the -3 permanent AP increases firepower by 67% against MEQ. The flat -3 is bad even in a "good" scenario, against SOB it might be slightly better assuming your opponent doesn't always finish off the whole squad. The extra shots aspect power is amazing relative to the alternatives, it also works on Overwatch and doesn't require you to resolve your shots seperately.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/29 17:46:56
2020/02/29 19:00:07
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
Hellebore wrote:That's not a bad way of doing it, but I think they should just have points values and you can buy up to X of them.
Squad exarchs should really be veteran aspect warriors. Actual exarchs should be hq choices.
The squad leader, basically someone who is falling to the path and starting to manifest the supernatural powers of the aspect, can buy 1.
The exarch hq entry could buy up to 2.
An exarch ancient could buy 3 and Phoenix lords determine which one they want active at the beginning of each player turn.
I see where you're coming from on those. Personally, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea of a "veteran aspect warrior." To my mind, an aspect warrior is someone they've trained to be as good at what they do as possible without being lost to khaine. If you're exarchy enough to start manifesting subtle supernatural phenomena in the form of exarch powers, it's probably time to go put on a suit of exarch armor. Letting someone obviously teeter on the edge of being lost to the path like that just seems irresponsible.
Phoenix Lords being able to switch between "stances" to use different exarch powers is a cool thought, but then you require that all exarch powers be balanced and useful both for a squad of aspects and for an individual beatstick character. which seems like it might be a bit limiting.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'd rather they just got rid of half the Exarch powers. Three on each aspect allows better diversity and easier balancing.
I don't necessarily disagree. I'm pitching the ability to take multiple lesser powers for the sake of build diversity, but I wouldn't mind seeing the 7 powers become 3 or 4 good powers. The tricky part is only cutting the "bad" powers. Presumably, someone at GW looked at the list of exarch powers and was of the opinion that all powers for a given aspect were close enough in usefulness to use the same resource (power slots).
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/03/01 02:20:10
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
GW thinks everything is useful at some point, and they price it as 100% effective, which ultimately leads to bad rules. Ultimately we don't need 6 separate powers for each Exarch in the same way we don't need 6 Warlord Traits for each founding Chapter on top of the random 6 Vanguard traits. Focus to really hone in on what each Aspect should do, and what the Exarch exemplifies, is more important.
GW releases so many rules as though more rules = more depth.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/03/01 04:04:37
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
I'm for equal representation, so if everyone is reduced in options that's fine. But given the way GW treats marines, it seems like this only be punishing yourself by reducing everyone else's stuff...
Hellebore wrote:That's not a bad way of doing it, but I think they should just have points values and you can buy up to X of them.
Squad exarchs should really be veteran aspect warriors. Actual exarchs should be hq choices.
The squad leader, basically someone who is falling to the path and starting to manifest the supernatural powers of the aspect, can buy 1.
The exarch hq entry could buy up to 2.
An exarch ancient could buy 3 and Phoenix lords determine which one they want active at the beginning of each player turn.
I see where you're coming from on those. Personally, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea of a "veteran aspect warrior." To my mind, an aspect warrior is someone they've trained to be as good at what they do as possible without being lost to khaine. If you're exarchy enough to start manifesting subtle supernatural phenomena in the form of exarch powers, it's probably time to go put on a suit of exarch armor. Letting someone obviously teeter on the edge of being lost to the path like that just seems irresponsible.
Phoenix Lords being able to switch between "stances" to use different exarch powers is a cool thought, but then you require that all exarch powers be balanced and useful both for a squad of aspects and for an individual beatstick character. which seems like it might be a bit limiting.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'd rather they just got rid of half the Exarch powers. Three on each aspect allows better diversity and easier balancing.
I don't necessarily disagree. I'm pitching the ability to take multiple lesser powers for the sake of build diversity, but I wouldn't mind seeing the 7 powers become 3 or 4 good powers. The tricky part is only cutting the "bad" powers. Presumably, someone at GW looked at the list of exarch powers and was of the opinion that all powers for a given aspect were close enough in usefulness to use the same resource (power slots).
I feel like GW have squandered the potential of the aspects. They managed to create evee narrower slices of marine unit, with different levels of experience and so on.
If anyone has the opportunity to explore an organisational structure, heirarchy and training it's the aspect shrines. Theyre based on Shaolin temples and they had a huge range of student ranks and expertise.
It just comes across as artificially narrow for guardians to turn into an aspect and then back, with no nuance. There's also no representation for those who have returned to the path, reawakening their warrior self and thus having more experience.
There's no explanation or exploration of how exarchs learn their weapons given they were trained to use the normal aspect gear. There's no exploration of why they would ever deviate from said traditional equipment.
Within these areas are the potential for fleshing out the intricacies of a shrine, it's keepers and it's students. We have all these loose threads - why are there no banshee squads wielding executioners, where are the novices (they'll send guardians but not novice aspects?), Where are the effects of treading the path multiple times or of joining multiple aspects?
The potential is huge and really interesting, from a lore and game perspective.
But all we get are the subpar reintroduction of rules that have been around since 1st edition and a need to find a better way to represent them.
My frustration is that GW has spent more time naming the current company captains of 6 first founding chapters than giving any detail or time to even one shrine.
To get back to your minor vs major powers, I wonder if maybe they could be split between squad skills and exarch skills.
Obviously the aspects learn some funky skills which are reflected in their unit rules, what if you looked at choosing squad abilities based on the style/stance/school they were currently learning?
Those skills that only affect an exarch would be the ones they choose for themselves, while squad effects are chosen separately.
There's no explanation or exploration of how exarchs learn their weapons given they were trained to use the normal aspect gear. There's no exploration of why they would ever deviate from said traditional equipment.
I've always imagined that exarch weapons are basically what happens when an exarch, ancient and kept under house arrest when not at war, gets bored. Once you've drilled the muscle memory for fusion gun katas into your current body's muscle memory for the thousandth time, maybe you start wondering about shooting your fusion gun just a wee bit further consider how nice it would be to incinerate the wave of orks trying to keep your squad from blowing up a tank. And if an exarch's style gets really bizarre, maybe he officially starts up a new minor aspect shrine rather than being recognized a a major aspect.
why are there no banshee squads wielding executioners, where are the novices (they'll send guardians but not novice aspects?), Where are the effects of treading the path multiple times or of joining multiple aspects?
I imagine there are "executioner banshee" shrines. However, like the slashing spheres of Zandros, they're too few in numer to make it into the codex. Plus, I imagine that craftworlders see tried and true paths as... safer than a more experimental one. Twelve of your fifty cousins were dire avengers and had nothing but good things to say about the experience. Your sister was a warp spider, and she's always been a little weird ever since.
Regarding, "novices," I imagine that those who haven't gotten their scorpion certification yet are considered too unstealthy/untrained to stick into a scorpion squad. Don't want Bob giving away your position because he hasn't mastered the ninja duck walk yet. Don't want Cheryll stumbling halfway through an acrobatic banshee charge. Don't want Frank getting killed because he hasn't mastered a fusion gun katta or Jennifer getting lost in the warp during a flicker jump. If the craftworld is so desperate that it needs Jennifer or Frank, they probably get stuck into a guardian squad because everyone gets their guardian certification at craftworlder highschool.
If you join multiple aspects during your life, you might eventually become an autarch. if formerly being a fire dragon is impacting your experience as a striking scorpion, seek help immediately. You aren't compartmentalizing your psyche the way you're supposed to.
My frustration is that GW has spent more time naming the current company captains of 6 first founding chapters than giving any detail or time to even one shrine.
I'm with you there. Marines are cool and all, but most of the marine supplements we've gotten are for subfactions that are supposed to consist of 1,000 guys at a time or less. It's weird and annoying, though probably logical from a sales perspective.
To get back to your minor vs major powers, I wonder if maybe they could be split between squad skills and exarch skills.
Obviously the aspects learn some funky skills which are reflected in their unit rules, what if you looked at choosing squad abilities based on the style/stance/school they were currently learning?
Those skills that only affect an exarch would be the ones they choose for themselves, while squad effects are chosen separately.
I like this idea. Having a "squad slot" and an "exarch slot." One defines how your squad as a whole operates; reflects the philosophical focus of your shrine's teachings. The other is your squad leader's personal quirks/preferences.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/03/01 04:59:57
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
Argive wrote: I think the DA ones were ok as it lets you pick between better exarch dakka, or something to benefit the whole squad (if you take a squad of 10 the latter makes more sense but if you only rock 5 the former seems to be the better option)
The unit-wide buff increases firepower by 25%, double-gun Exarch in a 5-man squad consists of 33% of the firepower, so to get an overall increase in firepower on the whole squad you'd either need to lose models or get an 80% increase in firepower on the Exarch. Against MEQ the -3 permanent AP increases firepower by 67% against MEQ. The flat -3 is bad even in a "good" scenario, against SOB it might be slightly better assuming your opponent doesn't always finish off the whole squad. The extra shots aspect power is amazing relative to the alternatives, it also works on Overwatch and doesn't require you to resolve your shots seperately.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: I think the DA ones were ok as it lets you pick between better exarch dakka, or something to benefit the whole squad (if you take a squad of 10 the latter makes more sense but if you only rock 5 the former seems to be the better option)
The unit-wide buff increases firepower by 25%, double-gun Exarch in a 5-man squad consists of 33% of the firepower, so to get an overall increase in firepower on the whole squad you'd either need to lose models or get an 80% increase in firepower on the Exarch. Against MEQ the -3 permanent AP increases firepower by 67% against MEQ. The flat -3 is bad even in a "good" scenario, against SOB it might be slightly better assuming your opponent doesn't always finish off the whole squad. The extra shots aspect power is amazing relative to the alternatives, it also works on Overwatch and doesn't require you to resolve your shots seperately.
Im not sure what you are trying to say here..
It sounded like you were considering using the Shredding Fire power and I wanted to let you know it's less powerful almost all the time and harder to resolve so no reason to take it.
2020/03/01 08:57:59
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
I play almost exclusevily with Expert crafters. So with shredding fire dual cats works really well providing me high quality shots throughout the game.
if my unit takes 5 wounds and leaves me with an exarch on 1 wound its still the same amount of high quality shots.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
The premise I work from is basically that GW will give all this extra stuff to marines, so I'm not going to do them the favour of trying to explain away everyone else's diversity using their existing background.
If GW can justify 3 different Phobos units and new bolt guns, then there is ample room to expand exarchs, aspects, skills, powers and weapons beyond trying to explain them within the bounds of what's currently written.
If there's a mystery in marine background, GW wedges it open with all sorts of new stuff. If there's a mystery in how an exarch learns their weapons, we don't get 3 different types of exarch and unique skill paths, we just get the expectation that we have to explain it within the current lore.
GW seems to encourage expansion of marines and introspection of everyone else. I don't like it.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm actually against some of the Phobos units existing. I mean, nobody asked or wanted Incursors. If they were removed literally nobody would notice.
Agreed, and I'd make the argument that making incursor equipment (the double knives, the mine, a visor to ignore cover) into options for infiltrators would make infiltrators a more interesting trait in their own right.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/03/02 07:40:30
Subject: Exarch Powers: An Alternate Approach (and Shadow Spectre powers)
That's all well and good, but it doesn't stop them existing and they won't remove them.
So given that unalienable truth, the best thing isn't to try and shrink everyone else's stuff, but to demand just as much investment.
You're not really doing the faction a favour by telling GW that you don't need as much love as marines, because they aren't going to stop doing it for marines.
I wonder if we will see exarch powers with FW book. Seems like a no brainer but I fully would not be surprised with a copy and paste a datasheet re-print.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Hellebore wrote: That's all well and good, but it doesn't stop them existing and they won't remove them.
So given that unalienable truth, the best thing isn't to try and shrink everyone else's stuff, but to demand just as much investment.
You're not really doing the faction a favour by telling GW that you don't need as much love as marines, because they aren't going to stop doing it for marines.
I'm all for giving non-marine factions more support. I think you and I just want that support to come in different forms. Marines actually kind of suffer from too much attention. In a given edition, all of those dreadnaught variants will have a couple of winners and a bunch of sub-optimal options that only get taken for the sake of fluff or because someone's wallet doesn't allow them to invest in the new shiny. Ditto the terminator variants. Even incursors are made large redundant by infiltrators who compete for niche space with intercessors and scouts.
If we got a datasheet and box for all-executioner banshees, there's a good chance that they would overlap with traditional banshees enough to put them in competition for a niche in your army. And then either the new models or the old would see less use as they were deemed sub-optimal. If we got a combat-focused "not an autarch" whose gimmick was having walked multiple warrior paths, we'd probably end up making the current autarch more redundant (you'd take the better beatstick when you want a beatstick).
So I agree with your sentiment that non-marines should get some of the marines' attention (for the sake of all factions including marines themselves), but that doesn't mean I want to give eldar the same problems marines have for the sake of making our option rosters match in number.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
Eldar- 4436 pts
