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Is it allowed to disembark a unit from a transport that has been redeployed or come out of reserves using a specific tactic ie: drukhari screaming jets? If it were, would they be able to charge? If it weren't legal, why is it? Is it because the only movement that a unit that is subjected to the reinforcements rules is allowed to make is a charge?

Answers in Order:

1. Normally no, since almost all rules of this type happen "at the end of the Movement Phase" which then prohibits you from making a voluntary choice to disembark.

2. Yes, per the rules of Disembarking from Transports.

3. See 1 and 2 above.

4 See 1 and 2 above.

You cannot disembark from a transport that arrives "at the end of the movement phase" because if you did, then the transport didn't arrive at the "end of the movement phase", thus you broke the rules.

This is why the Drop Pod has a special rule to allow the unit inside to disembark, because you cannot normally do so.

I believe there is a necron tactic that allows you to redeploy D3 units I think it is, but you are not then allowed to charge... but how about the units embarked in those... can they disembark? if so, would they be able to charge?

eparedes0785 wrote:
I believe there is a necron tactic that allows you to redeploy D3 units I think it is, but you are not then allowed to charge... but how about the units embarked in those... can they disembark? if so, would they be able to charge?

That is the C’tan Shard of the Deceiver's Grand Illusion ability, but that happens in "at the beginning of the first battle round, but before the first turn begins", not the end of the movement phase, so you can indeed redeploy a Ghost Ark, disembark the unit inside, move them and then charge them. However since you have to deploy more than 12" away, and it can only transport Warriors or CHARACTERS, and only 10 of them at that, who move only 5", and need a 5 to make it into combat, and then do some useless flailing before being murdered instantly back, it's not really that much of a big deal. It won't work with Invasion Beams because the unit being beamed in can't move after being beamed in.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You cannot disembark from a transport that arrives "at the end of the movement phase" because if you did, then the transport didn't arrive at the "end of the movement phase", thus you broke the rules.

This is not why you cant disembark. If the transport would arrive at the end of the movement phase, and you would disembark at the end of the movement phase, sequencing would be used, and the player whose turn it is chooses the order of operations. Nothing in 40k happens at the same time, because of the sequencing rule.
But, there is another reason why you cant disembark after a transport arrives on the battlefield from reinforcements. Units that arrive on the battlefield as reinforcements count as having moved for all rules purposes. You cannot disembark from a transport that has moved, unless a special rule says otherwise.

BCB is totally correct on this. You can't disembark from a unit that was deployed at the end of the Movement phase because you can't choose to do something that isn't an "end of Movement phase" action after doing an "end of Movement phase" action.

 alextroy wrote:
BCB is totally correct on this. You can't disembark from a unit that was deployed at the end of the Movement phase because you can't choose to do something that isn't an "end of Movement phase" action after doing an "end of Movement phase" action.

Q: When using an ability or Stratagem at the end of the Fight
phase to immediately fight again (e.g. Fury of Khorne) and the
selected unit moves within 1" of an enemy unit that has not yet
fought this phase, after fighting with the unit selected, can that
enemy unit now fight even though it’s the end of the Fight phase?
A: Yes.

It is possible to do something after the end of a phase.

Some Transports require the occupants to disembark immediately when they arrive at the end of the Movement Phase. They’re the exception, things like Drop Pods and Termites.

Most others don’t allow it, for the reason p5freak stated - unuts arriving via special rules/Strats count as moving and you can’t disembark from most transports after the transport has moved.

 p5freak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
BCB is totally correct on this. You can't disembark from a unit that was deployed at the end of the Movement phase because you can't choose to do something that isn't an "end of Movement phase" action after doing an "end of Movement phase" action.

Q: When using an ability or Stratagem at the end of the Fight
phase to immediately fight again (e.g. Fury of Khorne) and the
selected unit moves within 1" of an enemy unit that has not yet
fought this phase, after fighting with the unit selected, can that
enemy unit now fight even though it’s the end of the Fight phase?
A: Yes.

It is possible to do something after the end of a phase.

That's the old exception that proves the rule

It creates a rules paradox since you can't end the Fight phase until all eligible units have fought and the fight again ability moved you from a state were all eligible units had fought to one were they had not. Also, fighting during the Fight phase is compulsory, so there was no choice as to whether or not the unit fights.

Seconding p5freak & JohnnyHell.

Sequencing and overlapping 'at the end of movement phase', etc. is not the reason why it can't disembark after transport having deep striked.
Disembarking must occur prior to moving the transport, and arriving from reserves count as having moved its maximum movement for all rules purposes.

I call for a compromise. Both reasons are correct, so there are two reasons you can't disembark from a 'deep striking' transport.

 alextroy wrote:
I call for a compromise. Both reasons are correct, so there are two reasons you can't disembark from a 'deep striking' transport.

No, sorry. A transport can deepstrike at the end of the movement phase, and a unit can disembark at the end of the movement phase. Sequencing.

 p5freak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I call for a compromise. Both reasons are correct, so there are two reasons you can't disembark from a 'deep striking' transport.

No, sorry. A transport can deepstrike at the end of the movement phase, and a unit can disembark at the end of the movement phase. Sequencing.

No, unless the transport has a special rule like Drop Pods do, the unit would not get to declare it is disembarking until after the transport arrives, which is at the end of the turn. This means you are in fact trying to have the unit disembark after the end of the movement phase.

But, overall I agree with Alextroy in that both reasons are correct for not allowing disembarking from s "deep striking" transport without a special rule.

Of course, special rules would be needed, like stratagems.

So you do agree that both reasons are correct, right?

No, as i said, its possible for a unit to disembark at the end of the movement phase, from a transport which itself has arrived at the end of the movement phase by special rules, like stratagems, because of sequencing.

 p5freak wrote:
No, as i said, its possible for a unit to disembark at the end of the movement phase, from a transport which itself has arrived at the end of the movement phase by special rules, like stratagems, because of sequencing.

You can't invoke Sequencing, as that would mean disembarking before the vehicle is on the table, which is impossible.

 p5freak wrote:
No, as i said, its possible for a unit to disembark at the end of the movement phase, from a transport which itself has arrived at the end of the movement phase by special rules, like stratagems, because of sequencing.

That is irreverent to the normal flow of the rules. You can do anything the rules don't normally allow if you have a special rule that allows it.

You can not disembark from a Transport that deployed at the End of the Movement phase (unless you have a special rule that says otherwise).
You can't move after deploying as Reinforcements (unless you have a special rule that says you can).
You can't select a unit to fight more than once a Fight phase (unless you have a special rule that says you can).
Etc and so on.

 alextroy wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
No, as i said, its possible for a unit to disembark at the end of the movement phase, from a transport which itself has arrived at the end of the movement phase by special rules, like stratagems, because of sequencing.

That is irreverent to the normal flow of the rules. You can do anything the rules don't normally allow if you have a special rule that allows it.

You can not disembark from a Transport that deployed at the End of the Movement phase (unless you have a special rule that says otherwise).
You can't move after deploying as Reinforcements (unless you have a special rule that says you can).
You can't select a unit to fight more than once a Fight phase (unless you have a special rule that says you can).
Etc and so on.

According to BCB it wouldnt be possible, because nothing can happen after the end of the movement phase.

 Blndmage wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
No, as i said, its possible for a unit to disembark at the end of the movement phase, from a transport which itself has arrived at the end of the movement phase by special rules, like stratagems, because of sequencing.

You can't invoke Sequencing, as that would mean disembarking before the vehicle is on the table, which is impossible.

Wrong. Some transports already allow disembarkation after they have arrived as reinforcements at the end of the movement phase. Other transports could be given special permission by a stratagem. Sequencing would be used if disembarking at the end of the movement phase would happen at the same time as the transport arrives at the end of the movement phase. Arriving transport is resolved first, then disembarkation.

It's not sequencing. If it were sequencing, the active player could choose which happens first. They cant, because they arent simultaneous.

 Stux wrote:
It's not sequencing. If it were sequencing, the active player could choose which happens first. They cant, because they arent simultaneous.

Its not simultaneous when a unit can disembark at the end of the movement phase, and when a transport arrives at the end of the movement phase ?

 p5freak wrote:

 Stux wrote:
It's not sequencing. If it were sequencing, the active player could choose which happens first. They cant, because they arent simultaneous.

Its not simultaneous when a unit can disembark at the end of the movement phase, and when a transport arrives at the end of the movement phase ?

Correct.

 Stux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Stux wrote:
It's not sequencing. If it were sequencing, the active player could choose which happens first. They cant, because they arent simultaneous.

Its not simultaneous when a unit can disembark at the end of the movement phase, and when a transport arrives at the end of the movement phase ?

Correct.

Then your definition of "same time" is different from mine.

 p5freak wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Stux wrote:
It's not sequencing. If it were sequencing, the active player could choose which happens first. They cant, because they arent simultaneous.

Its not simultaneous when a unit can disembark at the end of the movement phase, and when a transport arrives at the end of the movement phase ?

Correct.

Then your definition of "same time" is different from mine.

Seems that way.

Sequencing is only used for game events with the same trigger. That is my definition of simultaneous, within the context of this game.

If events have a clear order without invoking sequencing then they are not simultaneous.

And you can logically derive from that that "end of" phase is a flexible length of time, not an instant.

Only stipulation pertaining to disembarking is that disembark must happen during movement phasethe unit begins its movement phase embarked in the transport and before the transport moves.

It's quite odd anyone would elect to do so, but RAW there's nothing preventing you from disembarking from a stationary transport at the moment of 'the end of the movement phase' unless one argues that 'the end of movement phase' is a separate phase between movement and psychic phase that is distinctively NOT a part of movement phase.

I'd like to see a rule that allows you to disembark "at the end of the movement phase". I don't believe such an rule exist.

Drop Pods don't do that. They are deployed at the end of the movement phase, with that arrival then triggering the disembarking of the transported unit. A clear chain of events.

And no, you can't do something that happens during a phase a the end of the phase. Why? Because anything done during the phase must be done before anything that has to be done at the end of the phase. Such a thing may be the last thing you do that phase, but it wasn't done at at the end of the phase.

From 'Transports'

Disembark: Any unit that begins its Movement phase embarked within a transport can disembark before the transport moves....

The allowance to disembark is dependent on whether a unit began its movement phase within a transport and whether the said transport has moved or not. It does not restrict from disembarking, if you so choose to, at a specific/certain point/phase/moment so have you.

In a more 'well aktually' note, RAW, the rules for disembarking does not restrict you to disembark strictly in movement phase only. The conditions for being able to disembark are whether you began your movement phase (aka, when your turn begins after resolving all'before your turn' stuff) embarked in a transport, and that transport did not move. So, as long as you've fulfilled those conditions, you can disembark during any phase (i.e. emergency disembark is a type of disembark that happens outside of movement phase for the units that started a movement phase in a transport). But let's not digress because that's whole another can of worms (because RAW-RAW, emergency disembarkation cannot be invoked during enemy's shooting phase for units that manually embarked into a transport in its preceding movement phase since the rules for emergency disembarkation tells you to follow the rules for disembark, and the rules for disembarking tells you the unit disembarking must begin its movement phase (and not anyone else's) embarked in a transport, and the said unit did not begin its movement phase inside a transport but embarked during/end/etc of its movement phase).

FWIW, there's no restriction on disembarking during the morale phase as long as you've fulfilled the conditions.

TL/DR: It's not sequencing that affects units disembarking from a transport arriving from reserves, but the fact that the transport counts as having moved its maximum move when it arrives from reserves.

 p5freak wrote:

According to BCB it wouldnt be possible, because nothing can happen after the end of the movement phase.

He's saying that in the context of you not being able to disembark the passengers because after the end of the movement phase, so therefore it wouldn't be possible. That does not mean that you suddently move their disembarking up to the end of the movement phase at the same time the transport arrives. The passengers can't disembark until after the transport arrives. The transport arrives at the end of the phase. You can't disembark because the movement phase has already ended, so it is too late for you to disembark.

 Blndmage wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
No, as i said, its possible for a unit to disembark at the end of the movement phase, from a transport which itself has arrived at the end of the movement phase by special rules, like stratagems, because of sequencing.

You can't invoke Sequencing, as that would mean disembarking before the vehicle is on the table, which is impossible.

Wrong. Some transports already allow disembarkation after they have arrived as reinforcements at the end of the movement phase. Other transports could be given special permission by a stratagem. Sequencing would be used if disembarking at the end of the movement phase would happen at the same time as the transport arrives at the end of the movement phase. Arriving transport is resolved first, then disembarkation.