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Between 7th and 8th, the harlequin weapons got simplified a lot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. More complex doesn't necessarily mean better. However, some of the weapons are either so similar that they lack a real niche or so weak that they don't really have a niche at all. The difference between a strength 5 AP -2 caress and a strength 4 Ap-3 embrace, for instance, means that one will be mathematically better than the other against a wide range of targets. The rules below are a quick & dirty attempt to give each weapon more of a niche. The new stratagems are meant to give the weapons some flashy special rules that don't come up every time you swing them and thus don't have to bog the game down with too much complexity.

Please let me know what you think. Too much?

Harlequin's Kiss
Role: Versatile. Good at killing big stuff.
Changes: I'd actually leave the profile as-is. It doesn't a good job of being a reasonably-killy and resonably-cheap upgrade.
Stratagem: Kiss of Death (1CP) Use this stratagem when a model with a harlequin's kiss inflicts one or more unsaved wounds on an enemy model but does not destroy it. The enemy model immediately takes d3 additional damage. This stratagem may only be used once per phase.

Harlequin's Embrace
Role: Crowd-clearer. Let the harlequins get some hits in against charging enemies. Hold enemies hostage.
Changes: Strength 3, AP -3 Damage 1. At the end of each charge phase, any unit containing one or more harlequin's embraces may select one non-vehicle enemy unit that either charged or was charged this phase. For each embrace in the harlequin unit, roll a d3. The selected enemy unit takes that many Strength 3, AP-3, Damage 1 wounds.
Stratagem: Slicing Net (2CP) Use this stratagem when a non-vehicle enemy unit within 1" of a unit containing a harlequin's embrace attempts to Fall Back. Your opponent must roll a d6. On a 1-3, the enemy unit takes d3 mortal wounds before falling back. On a 4+, the unit may not Fall Back.

Harlequin's Caress
Role: Reliably do some damage, even against more heavily armored targets.
Changes: Strength 5, AP-2, Damage 1 (so unchanged)
Stratagem: Heart Stealer(1P) - The harlequin's caress uses its concentrated power field to phase through even the hardiest of defenses. use this stratagem before attacking with a model equipped with a harlequin's caress. Each successful to-hit roll automatically wounds and has an AP of -5. A to-hit roll of 6 has an AP of -5 and a Damage characteristic of 2.

Neuro Disruptor
Role: The expensive, special anti-infantry pistol.
Changes: Strength 1, Ap-4, Damage d3, Pistol 1, This weapon always wounds non-vehicles on a 2+.
Stratagem: Dispersed Wave (1P) Use this stratagem before shooting a Neuro Disruptor. Use the following profile instead of its normal profile:
Strength 1, Ap-4, Damage 1, Pistol d6, This weapon always wounds non-vehicles on a 4+. This weapon automatically hits (do not roll to hit).

So the neuro disruptor doesn't step on the fusion pistol's anti-tank toes, but it hurt non-vehicles very reliably and can be a threat to multi-wound models. The strat turns it into an off-brand flamer, which harlies don't really have currently. The caress serves as the the weapon most likely to consistently do at least some damage, but it isn't as good at pumping out wounds as the kiss or as tricksy as the caress. The embrace's charge-phase attacks make up for its debuff vs T4, 6, and 7 targets while also increasing its maximum damage against hordes. Those charge-phase attacks also mean that your harlequins don't have to get insta-gibbed by chargers without a chance to do some damage in return, and the stratagem means that a single embrace in a squad can potentially keep the squad safe from shooting. The kiss got the least dramatic changes, but the stratagem means you can make a single kiss a real threat to characters or weakened multi-wound models.

Thoughts? Have I gone overboard with the buffs?

For Embrace, just switching regular attacks for however many models in base contact or 1" or whatever (I forgot how Morty is worded) seems like a good compromise.

Personally I'd make the Caress a much higher strength value. It can reliably hit Marines and possibly T5. Maybe make it your Neuro Pistol equivalent. That also means I agree with your Neuro Pistol fix.

Thanks for the feedback!

I considered doing something like that with the Embrace, but I was concerned that it may lead to too much counting and/or arguments over counting. A squad of 5 guys all armed with caresses and spread out ~2" apart are potentially hitting a different number of enemy ork boyz each, for instance. Thoughts? Maybe I could change the strat/add another strat that lets you do attacks based on models within 1" for a single embracess model? That way, there would be less counting in a given turn.

Letting the caress wound on 2+ against more things would fit the fluff. Letting it wound on 2+ and also do d3 damage seems likely to raise red flags for my opponents. On the other hand, that's basically what Yriel does, and no one complains about him. Hmmmm.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Between 7th and 8th, the harlequin weapons got simplified a lot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. More complex doesn't necessarily mean better. However, some of the weapons are either so similar that they lack a real niche or so weak that they don't really have a niche at all. The difference between a strength 5 AP -2 caress and a strength 4 Ap-3 embrace, for instance, means that one will be mathematically better than the other against a wide range of targets. The rules below are a quick & dirty attempt to give each weapon more of a niche. The new stratagems are meant to give the weapons some flashy special rules that don't come up every time you swing them and thus don't have to bog the game down with too much complexity.

Please let me know what you think. Too much?

Thoughts? Have I gone overboard with the buffs?

It's not a buff until you revisit the pts, if you think the pts should be left as is I disagree from a conceptual level. Pts should always be addressed after a rework to a profile or rule, trying to hit an exact pts value with the right rules isn't feasible and is overly constrictive, let the fluff constrict, the pts should be open to change. It doesn't look overly OP to me and I'm going to suggest a massive buff to the embrace Stratagem.

Harlequin's Kiss
Role: Versatile. Good at killing big stuff.
Changes: I'd actually leave the profile as-is. It doesn't a good job of being a reasonably-killy and resonably-cheap upgrade.
Stratagem: Kiss of Death (1CP) Use this stratagem when a model with a harlequin's kiss inflicts one or more unsaved wounds on an enemy model but does not destroy it. The enemy model immediately takes d3 additional damage. This stratagem may only be used once per phase.

Change the second to last sentence of the Stratagem to the following: "The enemy model immediately takes d3 mortal wounds." The "once per phase" part is redundant in matched play, inflicting 4D3 mortal wounds in open play for 4CP if you get absurdly lucky isn't the worst thing that can happen in open play, remember daemons spawn exponentially more of themselves in open play.

Harlequin's Embrace
Role: Crowd-clearer. Let the harlequins get some hits in against charging enemies. Hold enemies hostage.
Changes: Strength 3, AP -3 Damage 1. At the end of each charge phase, any unit containing one or more harlequin's embraces may select one non-vehicle enemy unit that either charged or was charged this phase. For each embrace in the harlequin unit, roll a d3. The selected enemy unit takes that many Strength 3, AP-3, Damage 1 wounds.
Stratagem: Slicing Net (2CP) Use this stratagem when a non-vehicle enemy unit within 1" of a unit containing a harlequin's embrace attempts to Fall Back. Your opponent must roll a d6. On a 1-3, the enemy unit takes d3 mortal wounds before falling back. On a 4+, the unit may not Fall Back.

With S3 you're left wounding Orks on 5+ with your "crowd-clearer", I don't like the complicated end of combat thing partly because 8th doesn't normally inflict wounds other than mortal wounds with abilities, I also think it should have the Craftworld monofilament flavour. The weapon that should be good against charging enemies according to my reading of the fluff would be the caress. My suggestion: S+1 AP-0 Damage 1. Each time the bearer fights they can make one additional attack with this weapon. Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, that hit is resolved with an AP of -4 instead of 0.

I'd change the Stratagem to "Lasting Embrace (1CP) Use this Stratagem at the start of your opponent’s Movement phase. Select one model from your army that is armed with a Harlequin's embrace. Until the start of your next turn, enemy units within 1" of that model cannot Fall Back unless they have the VEHICLE or TITANIC keyword, or have a minimum Move characteristic."

Harlequin's Caress
Role: Reliably do some damage, even against more heavily armored targets.
Changes: Strength 5, AP-2, Damage 1 (so unchanged)
Stratagem: Heart Stealer(1P) - The harlequin's caress uses its concentrated power field to phase through even the hardiest of defenses. use this stratagem before attacking with a model equipped with a harlequin's caress. Each successful to-hit roll automatically wounds and has an AP of -5. A to-hit roll of 6 has an AP of -5 and a Damage characteristic of 2.

The caress doesn't give the reach to get into a vehicle in my view of things, I only read the little fluff blurb about the weapon in the codex, so let me know if there are any stories where a caress is used to damage a vehicle.

My suggestion: Last Caress (1 CP) Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase before a model with a Harlequin's caress from your army fights. Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against the last close combat attack made with this model's Harlequin's caress this phase and the Damage characteristic of that attack is increased to 4.

Neuro Disruptor
Role: The expensive, special anti-infantry pistol.
Changes: Strength 1, Ap-4, Damage d3, Pistol 1, This weapon always wounds non-vehicles on a 2+.
Stratagem: Dispersed Wave (1P) Use this stratagem before shooting a Neuro Disruptor. Use the following profile instead of its normal profile:
Strength 1, Ap-4, Damage 1, Pistol d6, This weapon always wounds non-vehicles on a 4+. This weapon automatically hits (do not roll to hit).

So the neuro disruptor doesn't step on the fusion pistol's anti-tank toes, but it hurt non-vehicles very reliably and can be a threat to multi-wound models. The strat turns it into an off-brand flamer, which harlies don't really have currently. The caress serves as the the weapon most likely to consistently do at least some damage, but it isn't as good at pumping out wounds as the kiss or as tricksy as the caress. The embrace's charge-phase attacks make up for its debuff vs T4, 6, and 7 targets while also increasing its maximum damage against hordes. Those charge-phase attacks also mean that your harlequins don't have to get insta-gibbed by chargers without a chance to do some damage in return, and the stratagem means that a single embrace in a squad can potentially keep the squad safe from shooting. The kiss got the least dramatic changes, but the stratagem means you can make a single kiss a real threat to characters or weakened multi-wound models.

You've the disruptor it into an anti-monster pistol, which is okay in terms of what Harlequins don't have too much off, the existing profile describes what you want I think. It's not too good against vehicles, wounding on 5+ instead of 6+ makes more sense, it does ignore armour after all, you'd expect it to hurt the guys inside a tank a decent bit, half as much as a monster rather than a fifth as much makes the most sense to me.

Instead of having an anti-monster pistol that can be used as flamer I'd rather see them be cheaper, keep the current profile and instead have an anti-monster Stratagem.

Cut the String (1 CP) Use this Stratagem before making a shooting attack with a model armed with a neuro disruptor. Add 3 to the wound roll of that attack, if you roll 7+ for the wound roll of this attack increase the damage characteristic to 2D3 unless the target is a VEHICLE.

Harlequin's Kiss
Role: Versatile. Good at killing big stuff.
Changes: I'd actually leave the profile as-is. It doesn't a good job of being a reasonably-killy and resonably-cheap upgrade.
Stratagem: Kiss of Death (1CP) Use this stratagem when a model with a harlequin's kiss inflicts one or more unsaved wounds on an enemy model but does not destroy it. The enemy model immediately takes d3 additional damage. This stratagem may only be used once per phase.

Change the second to last sentence of the Stratagem to the following: "The enemy model immediately takes d3 mortal wounds." The "once per phase" part is redundant in matched play, inflicting 4D3 mortal wounds in open play for 4CP if you get absurdly lucky isn't the worst thing that can happen in open play, remember daemons spawn exponentially more of themselves in open play.

The once per phase restriction was intended to speed up rolling (no need to roll each clown independently to determine how many of them are elligible to use this stratagem) and to prevent a squad of kisses from nuking a vehicle in a single round. Even if 4 CP is costly, an average of 8 bonus damage seemed like it would get a thumbs down from any opponents on the receiving end of it. Better to err on the side of caution, right?

Harlequin's Embrace
Role: Crowd-clearer. Let the harlequins get some hits in against charging enemies. Hold enemies hostage.
Changes: Strength 3, AP -3 Damage 1. At the end of each charge phase, any unit containing one or more harlequin's embraces may select one non-vehicle enemy unit that either charged or was charged this phase. For each embrace in the harlequin unit, roll a d3. The selected enemy unit takes that many Strength 3, AP-3, Damage 1 wounds.
Stratagem: Slicing Net (2CP) Use this stratagem when a non-vehicle enemy unit within 1" of a unit containing a harlequin's embrace attempts to Fall Back. Your opponent must roll a d6. On a 1-3, the enemy unit takes d3 mortal wounds before falling back. On a 4+, the unit may not Fall Back.

With S3 you're left wounding Orks on 5+ with your "crowd-clearer", I don't like the complicated end of combat thing partly because 8th doesn't normally inflict wounds other than mortal wounds with abilities, I also think it should have the Craftworld monofilament flavour. The weapon that should be good against charging enemies according to my reading of the fluff would be the caress. My suggestion: S+1 AP-0 Damage 1. Each time the bearer fights they can make one additional attack with this weapon. Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, that hit is resolved with an AP of -4 instead of 0.

I'd change the Stratagem to "Lasting Embrace (1CP) Use this Stratagem at the start of your opponent’s Movement phase. Select one model from your army that is armed with a Harlequin's embrace. Until the start of your next turn, enemy units within 1" of that model cannot Fall Back unless they have the VEHICLE or TITANIC keyword, or have a minimum Move characteristic."

Hmm. You make a good point. A strength 3 crowd clearer kind of isn't a crowd clearer. I was trying to recapture some of the 7th edition hammer of wrath rules for the harlequin ninja wires. It used to be that the embrace's job was to up your total number of attacks on the charge but to be less good at piercing armor than the other options. The caress's special rules used to let you automatically wound the enemy with a good to-hit roll because the glove could use a precise power field to "reach" though enemy defenses. So we could swap these weapons' roles around, but I don't really see a fluff reason for a caress or kiss to be a crowd clearer.

Rather than emulating the death spinner, what if we took a page out of another monofilament weapon's book? The drukhari shredder is Strength 6, AP 0, Damage 1, and rerolls to-wound rolls against infantry. So maybe we go for something like...

Embrace: Strength 4, AP 0, Damage 1, you may reroll failed to-wound rolls against infantry made with this weapon.


I would still rather like to keep the "do some wounds when you charge or get charged" thing. Partially because it seems like a good cinematic fit for anime ninja wires and partially because it does harlies some favors in 8th edition. Currently, I usually feel like I'm getting punished for charging more than one harlequin unit in a given turn because the countercharge strat or enemy chargers from the following turn tend to trade so well against the expensive squishy clowns. Having an option to do some damage before you drop would, I think, be a feels good rule for the harlequin player.

I'm reluctant to make the special rule into a mandiblaster style mortal wound generator because that would increase its efficiency against heavily armored targets moreso than against lightly-armored hordes. Which would weaken the weapons' niche distinctions. My thinking was that a couple automatic non-mortal wounds would be vaguely in the ballpark of the mortal wounds on X+ rules that are out there while still making the weapon more useful against ork boyz than marines.

Your tweak to the stratagem is fine and more consistent with something like a shardnet. However, I've personally found the range restriction of the shardnet to be a bit fiddly. It's kind of a feelbad moment when your opponent uses morale casualties to put the shardnet (or embrace) out of range of any of their models thus freeing up the unit. But maybe you and others feel that's a desirable form of counterplay? Making the strat 1CP does seem like it might be a bit cheap. You could use it to make a unit automatically immune to a tau gunline, for instance.

Harlequin's Caress
Role: Reliably do some damage, even against more heavily armored targets.
Changes: Strength 5, AP-2, Damage 1 (so unchanged)
Stratagem: Heart Stealer(1P) - The harlequin's caress uses its concentrated power field to phase through even the hardiest of defenses. use this stratagem before attacking with a model equipped with a harlequin's caress. Each successful to-hit roll automatically wounds and has an AP of -5. A to-hit roll of 6 has an AP of -5 and a Damage characteristic of 2.

The caress doesn't give the reach to get into a vehicle in my view of things, I only read the little fluff blurb about the weapon in the codex, so let me know if there are any stories where a caress is used to damage a vehicle.

My suggestion: Last Caress (1 CP) Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase before a model with a Harlequin's caress from your army fights. Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against the last close combat attack made with this model's Harlequin's caress this phase and the Damage characteristic of that attack is increased to 4.

There isn't really enough fluffy about the caress for us to have a great idea of what all it can do. Killing tanks wasn't the main job I had in mind for it, but I imagine being able to karate chop some tank treads in half or punching in a gun barrel would be worth at least a little damage. Maybe I should limit the special rule to not working against vehicles and monsters to protect the kiss's niche?

I thought about making the caress bypass invulnerable saves, but having a really good/focused power field didn't seem like an excuse to bypass a wych's dodge save or a daemon's "don't follow the laws of physics" save or even a conventional force field save. Thoughts?

Neuro Disruptor
Role: The expensive, special anti-infantry pistol.
Changes: Strength 1, Ap-4, Damage d3, Pistol 1, This weapon always wounds non-vehicles on a 2+.
Stratagem: Dispersed Wave (1P) Use this stratagem before shooting a Neuro Disruptor. Use the following profile instead of its normal profile:
Strength 1, Ap-4, Damage 1, Pistol d6, This weapon always wounds non-vehicles on a 4+. This weapon automatically hits (do not roll to hit).

So the neuro disruptor doesn't step on the fusion pistol's anti-tank toes, but it hurt non-vehicles very reliably and can be a threat to multi-wound models. The strat turns it into an off-brand flamer, which harlies don't really have currently. The caress serves as the the weapon most likely to consistently do at least some damage, but it isn't as good at pumping out wounds as the kiss or as tricksy as the caress. The embrace's charge-phase attacks make up for its debuff vs T4, 6, and 7 targets while also increasing its maximum damage against hordes. Those charge-phase attacks also mean that your harlequins don't have to get insta-gibbed by chargers without a chance to do some damage in return, and the stratagem means that a single embrace in a squad can potentially keep the squad safe from shooting. The kiss got the least dramatic changes, but the stratagem means you can make a single kiss a real threat to characters or weakened multi-wound models.

You've the disruptor it into an anti-monster pistol, which is okay in terms of what Harlequins don't have too much off, the existing profile describes what you want I think. It's not too good against vehicles, wounding on 5+ instead of 6+ makes more sense, it does ignore armour after all, you'd expect it to hurt the guys inside a tank a decent bit, half as much as a monster rather than a fifth as much makes the most sense to me.

Instead of having an anti-monster pistol that can be used as flamer I'd rather see them be cheaper, keep the current profile and instead have an anti-monster Stratagem.

Cut the String (1 CP) Use this Stratagem before making a shooting attack with a model armed with a neuro disruptor. Add 3 to the wound roll of that attack, if you roll 7+ for the wound roll of this attack increase the damage characteristic to 2D3 unless the target is a VEHICLE.

Hmm. If it's coming across as an anti-monster pistol, then I may be missing my mark. I feel like the fusion pistol ought to (and does) cover both vehicles and monsters pretty well. I was hoping to make into more of an anti-primaris or anti-centurion pistol that could double as an auto-hit weapon. The former is what it currently seems to be intended as, and the latter is a weapon niche that isn't filled by anything else in the harlequin codex at present. Plus, some sort of auto-hitting overwatch pistol would increase the clowns' chances of surviving against counterchargers.

Maybe the always wounds on 2+ rule (a throwback to 7th edition and an attempt at representing the non-physical nature of its attack) is taking it down the wrong path? Raising its strength to 4 would let it wound most vehicles on 5+ per your suggestion and would still wound most infantry on 3+ or 4+.

Nah, crowd clearing at S3 is fine because you're not trying to kill Marines and Orks are 6+.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nah, crowd clearing at S3 is fine because you're not trying to kill Marines and Orks are 6+.

Genestealers, Tzaangor, most Orks, Wracks (could be T5 but you can assassinate the HQ), Plaguebearers, Pox Bearers, Fenrisian Wolves, Harlequins don't need special melee weapons to take out Guardsmen or Hormagaunts. The 6+ AP 4 is less good than AP-1 against Marines assuming S4, so I'm taking it to AP-0,67 from AP-3 and giving it +1 attack. How specialized it should be at killing unarmoured targets I am unsure, GW believes it should primarily be for cutting through armour and Craftworld monofilament works this way but being even more anti-low armour would be fine in my book.

Wyldhunt wrote:

The once per phase restriction was intended to speed up rolling (no need to roll each clown independently to determine how many of them are elligible to use this stratagem) and to prevent a squad of kisses from nuking a vehicle in a single round. Even if 4 CP is costly, an average of 8 bonus damage seemed like it would get a thumbs down from any opponents on the receiving end of it. Better to err on the side of caution, right?

Only if you plan on using it in open play? Otherwise, who cares. I never write with open play in mind, if open players want to implement something I have made but feel it needs a change to be balanced in their broken format, they should feel free, same thing for AA or HH players.

I would still rather like to keep the "do some wounds when you charge or get charged" thing. Partially because it seems like a good cinematic fit for anime ninja wires and partially because it does harlies some favors in 8th edition. Currently, I usually feel like I'm getting punished for charging more than one harlequin unit in a given turn because the countercharge strat or enemy chargers from the following turn tend to trade so well against the expensive squishy clowns. Having an option to do some damage before you drop would, I think, be a feels good rule for the harlequin player.

I'm reluctant to make the special rule into a mandiblaster style mortal wound generator because that would increase its efficiency against heavily armored targets moreso than against lightly-armored hordes. Which would weaken the weapons' niche distinctions. My thinking was that a couple automatic non-mortal wounds would be vaguely in the ballpark of the mortal wounds on X+ rules that are out there while still making the weapon more useful against ork boyz than marines.

Your tweak to the stratagem is fine and more consistent with something like a shardnet. However, I've personally found the range restriction of the shardnet to be a bit fiddly. It's kind of a feelbad moment when your opponent uses morale casualties to put the shardnet (or embrace) out of range of any of their models thus freeing up the unit. But maybe you and others feel that's a desirable form of counterplay? Making the strat 1CP does seem like it might be a bit cheap. You could use it to make a unit automatically immune to a tau gunline, for instance.

Given the fluff I think the caress should be the anti-charge thing or neither should be. Play the fight when you die Masque if you want to do something when you are taking damage.

I think Harlequins need something to deal with gunlines and I imagine Tau in particular, I do think the counterplay of moving models away is positive.

I thought about making the caress bypass invulnerable saves, but having a really good/focused power field didn't seem like an excuse to bypass a wych's dodge save or a daemon's "don't follow the laws of physics" save or even a conventional force field save. Thoughts?

It is the Harlequin using a feint to create an opening, not a last hammerblow.

Hmm. If it's coming across as an anti-monster pistol, then I may be missing my mark. I feel like the fusion pistol ought to (and does) cover both vehicles and monsters pretty well. I was hoping to make into more of an anti-primaris or anti-centurion pistol that could double as an auto-hit weapon. The former is what it currently seems to be intended as, and the latter is a weapon niche that isn't filled by anything else in the harlequin codex at present. Plus, some sort of auto-hitting overwatch pistol would increase the clowns' chances of surviving against counterchargers.

Maybe the always wounds on 2+ rule (a throwback to 7th edition and an attempt at representing the non-physical nature of its attack) is taking it down the wrong path? Raising its strength to 4 would let it wound most vehicles on 5+ per your suggestion and would still wound most infantry on 3+ or 4+.

I hadn't thought of Aggressors or Centurions, I'm leaning towards saying it's okay that you're wounding on 5+ and that the weapon needs to be cheap enough that it's a worthwhile investment despite this and that the fusion pistol kills them more quickly but the disruptor is more cost-efficient. I think mono-Harlies should be -1 to hit in melee, I don't think your flamer strat moves the bar a lot and to me the disruptor is a finesse weapon, not a flamer.