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Hi all,

Thoughts on my 1500pt DeathGuard List? I am facing a 1500 Thousand Sons army this Friday that relies heavily on psychers. He will prolly run a few of them, a demon prince, and probably Magnus.

My strategy is to bombard with the Plague Crawler while the Drones dash forward. The PMs will move slowly on both flanks while the Termies wait to teleport in mid game. We have not decided the mission yet however it will be an unbound non Battle Forge game. Heck, we ain't even using CP yet. Still kinda new at the game.

Thoughts?


++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Death Guard) [73 PL, 1,509pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Plague Company: The Wretched

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 200pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 100pts]: 2. Gift of Contagion

Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 100pts]: 2. Gift of Contagion

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 200pts]
. Plague Champion: Bolt pistol, Plaguesword
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [10 PL, 200pts]
. Plague Champion: Bolt pistol, Plaguesword
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [11 PL, 229pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-plasma
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Plague spewer
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Total: [73 PL, 1,509pts] ++

So I went back and dropped the termies and a crawler. Then I pox walkers and haulers. I figure since I am facing Thousand Sons, I will need Psychers so I am holding the two HQ choices for Psychic abilities.

Thoughts?


++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Death Guard) [73 PL, 1,502pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Plague Company: The Wretched

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 200pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 100pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 205pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma pistol
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [10 PL, 205pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma pistol
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 112pts]
. 16x Poxwalker: 16x Improvised weapon

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Myphitic Blight-haulers [10 PL, 200pts]
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Missile launcher, Multi-melta
. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Missile launcher, Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Total: [73 PL, 1,502pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Well, for one thing both of your lists are over 1,500pts. Don't know how your opponent feels about points limits but generally I wouldn't exceed the limit even by a little.

Interesting idea to run the Wretched, but you can't realistically out-psychic Thousand Sons. What you can do is take Necrosius because he can deny three powers a turn and will be incredibly useful in this match up.

I'm not sure whether a single PBC is worth running - might be better to substitute it out for more boots on the ground to hold down objectives. Rhinos would be useful to get your PMs where they need to be to hold down objectives. May be worth tooling up with flails if you need to clear units off objectives.

Just a few thoughts.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Well, for one thing both of your lists are over 1,500pts. Don't know how your opponent feels about points limits but generally I wouldn't exceed the limit even by a little.

Interesting idea to run the Wretched, but you can't realistically out-psychic Thousand Sons. What you can do is take Necrosius because he can deny three powers a turn and will be incredibly useful in this match up.

I'm not sure whether a single PBC is worth running - might be better to substitute it out for more boots on the ground to hold down objectives. Rhinos would be useful to get your PMs where they need to be to hold down objectives. May be worth tooling up with flails if you need to clear units off objectives.

Just a few thoughts.

The only use I can see for the Crawler, is to use it as a screen for his troops and move it up field. Even though it'll be firing at 5+, the thing is pretty damn tough and will block for his other forces. Though the last time I saw that tactic being used, it was with two crawlers instead of one and the two drones were used to flank on another side.
It worked very well, up until the Crawler stated failing far more saves than it could tank.

He'll need to strip a few more points off if he's going to use Necrosius as well. Last I checked, he was about 30pts more than the malignant. Though I do second the choice to take the character. He's basically a much better force multiplier, despite the fact that his weapons don't count for the plagued rule.

Thanks for the comments. This is my first of a few games with another relatively newbie player. So what about the haulers? Also, where can I find the rules on this Necrosius you speak of??? My plan was to bombard from the bank with PB, run the drones and haulers to shield the marines. Thoughts?

 Blastum wrote:
Thanks for the comments. This is my first of a few games with another relatively newbie player. So what about the haulers? Also, where can I find the rules on this Necrosius you speak of??? My plan was to bombard from the bank with PB, run the drones and haulers to shield the marines. Thoughts?

Necrosius can be found in imperial armor Apoc II core book. Though I'm not too sure about getting a straight data sheet for him. I've only seen him be played and not played him myself.
He's also a FW model and that usually turns more than a few players off from getting him, but hey. Conversions are a thing in 40k, so have a ball. Some of the newer models for death guard are right up the alley for making a nice suitable model for him.

As for your tactic. You'd get far more worth out of your heavier units, the more wounds that they soak for your main company. The Crawler can do good sitting in the back, but it still has a chance to miss with it's ballistic skill being as it is and when all of your troops are getting chewed through. It's going to be left alone. It boils down to who you're willing to lose first and just how much you're willing to make the opponent pay to get it.

You're guys are already some of the most tanky units on the field, even without buffs being thrown their way.

I run Grey Knights and Assassins mainly. So I have no issue in dealing with Magnus, or most other heavily psychic armies either. So you really need to jump on top of him and make sure he can't just keep spamming out powers for the whole fight.

 Oborosen wrote:

 Blastum wrote:
Thanks for the comments. This is my first of a few games with another relatively newbie player. So what about the haulers? Also, where can I find the rules on this Necrosius you speak of??? My plan was to bombard from the bank with PB, run the drones and haulers to shield the marines. Thoughts?

Necrosius can be found in imperial armor Apoc II core book. Though I'm not too sure about getting a straight data sheet for him. I've only seen him be played and not played him myself.
He's also a FW model and that usually turns more than a few players off from getting him, but hey. Conversions are a thing in 40k, so have a ball. Some of the newer models for death guard are right up the alley for making a nice suitable model for him.

As for your tactic. You'd get far more worth out of your heavier units, the more wounds that they soak for your main company. The Crawler can do good sitting in the back, but it still has a chance to miss with it's ballistic skill being as it is and when all of your troops are getting chewed through. It's going to be left alone. It boils down to who you're willing to lose first and just how much you're willing to make the opponent pay to get it.

You're guys are already some of the most tanky units on the field, even without buffs being thrown their way.

I run Grey Knights and Assassins mainly. So I have no issue in dealing with Magnus, or most other heavily psychic armies either. So you really need to jump on top of him and make sure he can't just keep spamming out powers for the whole fight.

Thank you for this. Ya, I did my homework on Necrosius. He feels a bit cheesy. I mean 3 DTW in a single phase seems a bit much. So I will prolly go with Haulers and a couple of sorcerers if the points permit.

What is the feeling on Typhus with the PoxWalkers? I am thinking maybe I just run a malignant Plaguecaster, haulers and Typhus if points permit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And an updated list.

Dropped the Haulers
Added a Noxious Blightbringer to walk with the PoxWalkers
Added one more Crawler


++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Death Guard) [74 PL, 1,497pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Plague Company: The Wretched

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 200pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 100pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 2. Gift of Contagion

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 205pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma pistol
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [10 PL, 205pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma pistol
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 77pts]
. 11x Poxwalker: 11x Improvised weapon

+ Elites +

Noxious Blightbringer [3 PL, 60pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Total: [74 PL, 1,497pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 Blastum wrote:

 Oborosen wrote:

 Blastum wrote:
Thanks for the comments. This is my first of a few games with another relatively newbie player. So what about the haulers? Also, where can I find the rules on this Necrosius you speak of??? My plan was to bombard from the bank with PB, run the drones and haulers to shield the marines. Thoughts?

Necrosius can be found in imperial armor Apoc II core book. Though I'm not too sure about getting a straight data sheet for him. I've only seen him be played and not played him myself.
He's also a FW model and that usually turns more than a few players off from getting him, but hey. Conversions are a thing in 40k, so have a ball. Some of the newer models for death guard are right up the alley for making a nice suitable model for him.

As for your tactic. You'd get far more worth out of your heavier units, the more wounds that they soak for your main company. The Crawler can do good sitting in the back, but it still has a chance to miss with it's ballistic skill being as it is and when all of your troops are getting chewed through. It's going to be left alone. It boils down to who you're willing to lose first and just how much you're willing to make the opponent pay to get it.

You're guys are already some of the most tanky units on the field, even without buffs being thrown their way.

I run Grey Knights and Assassins mainly. So I have no issue in dealing with Magnus, or most other heavily psychic armies either. So you really need to jump on top of him and make sure he can't just keep spamming out powers for the whole fight.

Thank you for this. Ya, I did my homework on Necrosius. He feels a bit cheesy. I mean 3 DTW in a single phase seems a bit much. So I will prolly go with Haulers and a couple of sorcerers if the points permit.

What is the feeling on Typhus with the PoxWalkers? I am thinking maybe I just run a malignant Plaguecaster, haulers and Typhus if points permit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And an updated list.

Dropped the Haulers
Added a Noxious Blightbringer to walk with the PoxWalkers
Added one more Crawler


++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Death Guard) [74 PL, 1,497pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Plague Company: The Wretched

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [10 PL, 200pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 100pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 2. Gift of Contagion

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 205pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma pistol
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [10 PL, 205pts]
. Plague Champion: Plaguesword, Plasma pistol
. 7x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Blight Grenades, 7x Boltgun, 7x Krak Grenades, 7x Plague knife
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ special weapon: Blight launcher

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 77pts]
. 11x Poxwalker: 11x Improvised weapon

+ Elites +

Noxious Blightbringer [3 PL, 60pts]: Plasma pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 155pts]: 2x Plaguespitter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 170pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Total: [74 PL, 1,497pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

As long as you can focus fire, or soften up targets with your crawlers and keep advancing. You look like you're going to be doing fine. Barring any shenanigans that your opponent wants to pull at least.

But I'm going to stress the suggestion on Necrosius. You'd be surprised just how many models across the game get 2 to 3 denies a turn and since your opponent could bring Magnus.
You're already going to be matching up against a literal brick of cheese. If it weren't for Magnus being so expensive to field, then he'd be just too overpowered. However, I have not gotten a chance to play many 9th edition matches. Seeing as much of the people who play in my shop are still doing Necromunda and 8th respectively. So I'm not entirely too sure how to work against him in this edition.

But this is coming from a Grey Knights player:
There is nothing wrong with playing with a bit of cheese on your side and you're definitely going to need those denies if he can get close enough to Magnus. Because that Nerd will only have a slight chance of perils, which given the fact that he almost literally couldn't be wounded from perils before his rework, is laughable. He can still be shot down and he can still be beaten down in melee, though if I had to choose. Melee is usually the best bet. His ability to turn your troops into chaos spawns isn't free and he still has to proc it.

Playing now. He brought damn Magnus!

 Blastum wrote:
Playing now. He brought damn Magnus!

Out in the middle of the warp, a chaos god cackles...

JUST.. AS... PLANNED...

Shoulda gone with Necrosius. You'll get him next time - Nurgle is inevitable, and patient.

Wellp, you guys were right. We played an awesome game for 1500 points. I was amazed how many units he could field though.
It was an Unbound Army with no CP/Strategems ( we are still newbies).

Mission was control 4 objectives, kill the enemies warlord and count how many deaths at the end of game.
For the record, his army had this sick rule that so long as they were a few inches from an objective they capture it regardless of enemy models also being in the same area ( 3 inches). That seemed absurd but OK.

His army from my memory was something like this. And yes he went over a few points than 1500 but I was ok with it given we are still learning.


++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [88 PL, 1,554pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cults of the Legion: *No Cult*

+ HQ +

Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [9 PL, 170pts]

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [10 PL, 195pts]: Hellforged sword, Wings

Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch [7 PL, 120pts]: Inferno Bolt Pistol, Warlord

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines [12 PL, 162pts]
. Aspiring Sorcerer: Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol
. 8x Rubric Marine w/ Inferno Boltgun: 8x Inferno boltgun

+ Elites +

Scarab Occult Terminators [10 PL, 185pts]
. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: Inferno Combi-bolter
. 4x Terminator: 4x Inferno Combi-bolter, 4x Power sword

Scarab Occult Terminators [10 PL, 185pts]
. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: Inferno Combi-bolter
. 4x Terminator: 4x Inferno Combi-bolter, 4x Power sword

+ Fast Attack +

Tzaangor Enlightened [6 PL, 72pts]: Aviarch, Divining spears
. 3x Enlightened: 3x Blades on Disc of Tzeentch

+ Lord of War +

Magnus the Red [24 PL, 465pts]

++ Total: [88 PL, 1,554pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

(Sorry that sounds cryptic but it was something like that)

His Psychers were just absurd and I had no chance. Every time his psychic phase came around he just basically picked off everything and anything even my Demon Prince! I mean mortal wounds are just ridiculous.

My Crawlers did really well and he spent much of the game going after my Bloat Drones.

Will def bring more psychers next game including Necrosius.

The objective control ability is generally called Objective Secured or 'ObSec'. This usually applies to all troops in an army, so that when a troops unit is within 3" of an objective, it controls it even if enemy units contest the objective and even if they outnumber the controlling troops. The kicker is that your troops have this rule too, and where you have troops units contesting an objective both with ObSec, you go back to whichever side has most models within 3" of the objective.

ObSec only applies if it's battleforged - that is if it is made up of valid detachments with a shared faction keyword.

Because his army was 'unbound', i.e. not battleforged, he shouldn't have benefited from ObSec and so was technically cheating.

He has a lot of psykers in that list, and Magnus, which is a whole lotta nope. Also 50 or so points above your limit - which me and my opponents would regard as a big no-no, but it is up to you.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
The objective control ability is generally called Objective Secured or 'ObSec'. This usually applies to all troops in an army, so that when a troops unit is within 3" of an objective, it controls it even if enemy units contest the objective and even if they outnumber the controlling troops. The kicker is that your troops have this rule too, and where you have troops units contesting an objective both with ObSec, you go back to whichever side has most models within 3" of the objective.

ObSec only applies if it's battleforged - that is if it is made up of valid detachments with a shared faction keyword.

Because his army was 'unbound', i.e. not battleforged, he shouldn't have benefited from ObSec and so was technically cheating.

He has a lot of psykers in that list, and Magnus, which is a whole lotta nope. Also 50 or so points above your limit - which me and my opponents would regard as a big no-no, but it is up to you.

Can you please elaborate about the whole lotta nope statement? He can’t field that many Psychers or what am I missing here? Also the Thousand Sons codex states that if they hold an objective with me there as well they would be the winner. Am I misreading this statement?

Yes, will enforce 1500 point count from now on.

What I mean is, psykers are nasty, and can throw out a lot of mortal wounds. Thousand Sons psykers are nastier, and have a lot of psychic powers to choose from - but bear in mind your Disgustingly Resilient rolls can still be taken against mortal wounds, so Death Guard aren't a bad counter to Thousand Sons.

Magnus is also a bit... well I wouldn't run a primarch in a friendly game, especially when you're both starting out. Just like I wouldn't run a knight in such a game (in my group we have agreed no primarchs and no knights), but every group is different - you just need to tool up to take them down. Only problem is, Death Guard don't have a lot of good anti-tank/anti-monster fire power. Your blight haulers are your best shot here at taking Magnus down.

As to ObSec, each army has their own special name for this rule, but they're all essentially the same. Thousand Sons have "Disciples of Tzeentch", which only applies if the army is battle-forged, and only applies to troops - and it gives them priority in controlling objectives.

Death Guard have a similar rule, called "Plague Host" - which does the same thing. All troops in a battleforged army have priority in controlling objectives.

Now, if his troops and your troops both contest an objective, your ObSec rules essentially cancel each other out - in this scenario whoever has the most models within 3" of the objective is the one who controls it.

In short, he didn't run a battleforged army because he couldn't fit everything in the detachments available, so he shouldn't have had his ObSec rule. So in fact your troops would have had priority over any of his units (including his troops) when controlling objectives - so get those plague marines where they need to bit and sit them there!

 Blastum wrote:

 Drakeslayer wrote:
The objective control ability is generally called Objective Secured or 'ObSec'. This usually applies to all troops in an army, so that when a troops unit is within 3" of an objective, it controls it even if enemy units contest the objective and even if they outnumber the controlling troops. The kicker is that your troops have this rule too, and where you have troops units contesting an objective both with ObSec, you go back to whichever side has most models within 3" of the objective.

ObSec only applies if it's battleforged - that is if it is made up of valid detachments with a shared faction keyword.

Because his army was 'unbound', i.e. not battleforged, he shouldn't have benefited from ObSec and so was technically cheating.

He has a lot of psykers in that list, and Magnus, which is a whole lotta nope. Also 50 or so points above your limit - which me and my opponents would regard as a big no-no, but it is up to you.

Can you please elaborate about the whole lotta nope statement? He can’t field that many Psychers or what am I missing here? Also the Thousand Sons codex states that if they hold an objective with me there as well they would be the winner. Am I misreading this statement?

Yes, will enforce 1500 point count from now on.

Just asking, but did you have someone there to validate, or otherwise play some form of referee for the match?
Seeing as the two of you were new to the game. It's possible that both of you were messing up on more than just the obj-secured rule.

I played a match last week, where the new guy apparently thought he could load five relics onto one model.