Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can anyone explain to me how terrain works with titanic beings?

Like, normally, a wall thats 1 inch tall can be scaled over by infantry, but what if the wall is 1½ inch tall or 2 inches tall? And im using a massive Gargantuan Squiggoth, am i just not able to move over it? Is a knight not able to move over a 2 inch crate made of wood?

Are there any rules that allows titanic units to move through specific cover types rather than over? Because i read the terrain traits, and i cant find anything that allows titanic units to just charge through or over and that doesnt make any sense. I mean a Gargantuan Squiggoth can move over infantry but you cant travel over a wall that has the same height? Or can you, exactly do this, because of the fact it can move over infantry?

I heard someone say i can move over walls and such if its less than half my size, but i dont know if thats a rule or not.


Also, what are the rules for attacking units inside a building that has several levels? What if they stand more than 5 inches above the ground yet they are right at the face of your titanic unit? can you still attack them? Realistically speaking you should be able to gob them then and there. Is he magically safe by being 6 inches above ground yet still several inches beneath the titanic model?

Titanic units may have a modification within their respective datasheets but their are no inherently modifications to normal terrain rules because a model is titanic.

Realism has nothing to do with 40k it is a game eg short range flamers are the best weapon for hitting flyers and aircraft

As to hitting things at face level above 5" you need a rule that gives you permission. Imperial Knights have a strat - if your model does not have a rule you cannot do it

kinda stupid that imperial knights need a stratagem to do what they should be able to do on their own. "by using this stratagem your knights now lift their arms to make a hit", like, yea, thats kinda the point. they do that all the time to hit..


And i feel like the terrain rules completely fail titanic units that can get blocked off by 3 inch wooden crates. Why is this even a thing.

Anyway, thanks

...is there actually a rule that prevents you from putting your model on top of a terrain piece and ending its move there?

the_scotsman wrote:
...is there actually a rule that prevents you from putting your model on top of a terrain piece and ending its move there?

Yes, of course there is. Its called unstable position, pg. 263. A simple fuel pipe, or a barricade can stop any titanic unit dead in its tracks, because it cant end its move on top of it. And to add insult to injury, the titanic unit needs to subtract 2" from its movement value, when it wants to move over that fuel pipe or barricade (difficult ground pg. 262). It maybe only 1,5" high, but its very scary for titanic units, it can render them immobile. If a titanic unit wants to move over a 1,5" high barricade it must subtract 5" from its movement. Difficult difficult ground is 2", and 2 x 1,5" for moving up and down the barricade. This means that the unit probably wont be able to move over it.

As for attacking enemy models in melee, knights are screwed, because measuring are done from the base, if a model has a base. They need a stratagem if the unit is more than 5" over their base. A LOS measures to its hull, because it doesnt have a base. It can easily attack enemy models which are 10" up from the ground floor.

Beardedragon wrote:
kinda stupid that imperial knights need a stratagem to do what they should be able to do on their own. "by using this stratagem your knights now lift their arms to make a hit", like, yea, thats kinda the point. they do that all the time to hit..


And i feel like the terrain rules completely fail titanic units that can get blocked off by 3 inch wooden crates. Why is this even a thing.

Anyway, thanks

It's not that the rule has problems, but rather titanic units have difficult time fitting into the mold that is pre-escalation 40k.

 p5freak wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
...is there actually a rule that prevents you from putting your model on top of a terrain piece and ending its move there?

Yes, of course there is. Its called unstable position, pg. 263. A simple fuel pipe, or a barricade can stop any titanic unit dead in its tracks, because it cant end its move on top of it. And to add insult to injury, the titanic unit needs to subtract 2" from its movement value, when it wants to move over that fuel pipe or barricade (difficult ground pg. 262). It maybe only 1,5" high, but its very scary for titanic units, it can render them immobile. If a titanic unit wants to move over a 1,5" high barricade it must subtract 5" from its movement. Difficult difficult ground is 2", and 2 x 1,5" for moving up and down the barricade. This means that the unit probably wont be able to move over it.

As for attacking enemy models in melee, knights are screwed, because measuring are done from the base, if a model has a base. They need a stratagem if the unit is more than 5" over their base. A LOS measures to its hull, because it doesnt have a base. It can easily attack enemy models which are 10" up from the ground floor.

so a gargantuan squiggoth, which i have, can actually attack someone several stories up in a building because i can draw a line of sight to the top of my gargantuan platform, to where they are? Since it has no base.

 p5freak wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
...is there actually a rule that prevents you from putting your model on top of a terrain piece and ending its move there?

Yes, of course there is. Its called unstable position, pg. 263. A simple fuel pipe, or a barricade can stop any titanic unit dead in its tracks, because it cant end its move on top of it. And to add insult to injury, the titanic unit needs to subtract 2" from its movement value, when it wants to move over that fuel pipe or barricade (difficult ground pg. 262). It maybe only 1,5" high, but its very scary for titanic units, it can render them immobile. If a titanic unit wants to move over a 1,5" high barricade it must subtract 5" from its movement. Difficult difficult ground is 2", and 2 x 1,5" for moving up and down the barricade. This means that the unit probably wont be able to move over it.

As for attacking enemy models in melee, knights are screwed, because measuring are done from the base, if a model has a base. They need a stratagem if the unit is more than 5" over their base. A LOS measures to its hull, because it doesnt have a base. It can easily attack enemy models which are 10" up from the ground floor.

Not quite correct. Terrains (that are not hills, which allow models to be placed on top of it innately) need a specific terrain keyword called "Scalable" in order to allow certain units to be placed on top. Unstable position simply disallows you from placing a model on top of the said terrain feature (i.e. Hill with Unstable Position keyword does not allow you to place models on top of it, or a crate designated as Obstacle with Unstable Position would disallow you to place a model on top of it even if it had a surface you can place the model on top). In practice, Unstable Position serves as means to clarify whether or not a terrain piece, seemingly occupiable/able to hold models on top, is actually Scalable or not, as terrains innately cannot have models on top of it (unless its a hill).

TLDR: In 9th ed, you need explicit permission, rather than explicit restriction from, via Scalable or if the terrain is a Hill in order for you to place models on top of the terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
...is there actually a rule that prevents you from putting your model on top of a terrain piece and ending its move there?

Yes, of course there is. Its called unstable position, pg. 263. A simple fuel pipe, or a barricade can stop any titanic unit dead in its tracks, because it cant end its move on top of it. And to add insult to injury, the titanic unit needs to subtract 2" from its movement value, when it wants to move over that fuel pipe or barricade (difficult ground pg. 262). It maybe only 1,5" high, but its very scary for titanic units, it can render them immobile. If a titanic unit wants to move over a 1,5" high barricade it must subtract 5" from its movement. Difficult difficult ground is 2", and 2 x 1,5" for moving up and down the barricade. This means that the unit probably wont be able to move over it.

As for attacking enemy models in melee, knights are screwed, because measuring are done from the base, if a model has a base. They need a stratagem if the unit is more than 5" over their base. A LOS measures to its hull, because it doesnt have a base. It can easily attack enemy models which are 10" up from the ground floor.

so a gargantuan squiggoth, which i have, can actually attack someone several stories up in a building because i can draw a line of sight to the top of my gargantuan platform, to where they are? Since it has no base.

Engagement range is defined as within 5" vertically and 1" horizontally.

As for the case of garg squig, it will require a specific rule that tells you to measure from any point of its 'hull' in order for you to do what you've described.

Sure but 5'' vertically from what point, when the gargantuan squiggoth dont have a base, i cant draw a line from that. Should i draw a line from its toes? Where is that stated

Beardedragon wrote:
Sure but 5'' vertically from what point, when the gargantuan squiggoth dont have a base, i cant draw a line from that. Should i draw a line from its toes? Where is that stated

You want to read Free Core Rulebook page 5 under the heading 'Measuring Distances'. When in doubt exactly what constitutes a 'hull', discuss with opponent prior to game is the best answer we can give you.

No there's no discussion about what measuring to the hull is as its clearly defined

if it has no base

"measure to the closest point of any part of that model; this is called measuring to the model’s hull"

U02dah4 wrote:
No there's no discussion about what measuring to the hull is as its clearly defined

if it has no base

"measure to the closest point of any part of that model; this is called measuring to the model’s hull"

But if the model i want to hit is standing on a building maybe 10 inches up, the closest point would be the top of my platform and not the ground level where my Squiggoth horns are?

and thus i can potentially hit him when hes 10 inches up in a tower?

You measure the shortest distance from any part of your squiggoth to the enemy models base, if it has a base. If that part from your model is the platform you use that for measuring. When that distance turns out to be within 1" horizontally, and 5" vertically, you are in engagement range.

Beardedragon wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
No there's no discussion about what measuring to the hull is as its clearly defined

if it has no base

"measure to the closest point of any part of that model; this is called measuring to the model’s hull"

But if the model i want to hit is standing on a building maybe 10 inches up, the closest point would be the top of my platform and not the ground level where my Squiggoth horns are?

and thus i can potentially hit him when hes 10 inches up in a tower?

Theoretically speaking, yes. But in reality, you should've discussed with your opponent prior to game how you're going to treat that 10" tall tower. FWIW, I would've argued that such tower should be considered as Obstacle terrain with Obscuring & Unstable Position keyword.

 skchsan wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
No there's no discussion about what measuring to the hull is as its clearly defined

if it has no base

"measure to the closest point of any part of that model; this is called measuring to the model’s hull"

But if the model i want to hit is standing on a building maybe 10 inches up, the closest point would be the top of my platform and not the ground level where my Squiggoth horns are?

and thus i can potentially hit him when hes 10 inches up in a tower?

Theoretically speaking, yes. But in reality, you should've discussed with your opponent prior to game how you're going to treat that 10" tall tower. FWIW, I would've argued that such tower should be considered as Obstacle terrain with Obscuring & Unstable Position keyword.

I see.

One thing my warhammer friends and i are a bit unsure of and its quite often discussed, is the ability for monster/vehicles to attack 2 inches behind pipes. Does this rule apply to all sorts of walls, including buildings? Where a vehicle can simply attack 2 inches behind the wall rather than having to be within 1 inch.

Pardon me for asking here, but im not a native english speaker, and there are so many rules that the advanced ones, can be a bit hard for me to understand

Please see the Defense Line terrain trait. That covers the rule for attacking beyond Barricades, Fuel Piles, and similar things.