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[Post New] 2021/02/04 09:30:25
    Subject: Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I've been kicking around a few ideas for craftworlders. Some of these are changes to aspect warriors specifically, but I'll create another thread later once I've refined those ideas a bit. Presented here are some tweaks for our HQs intended to move away from static aura buffs and, hopefully, give some of our units a well-deserved, fluff-appropriate shot in the arm.

Autarchs
Spoiler:

*Change Path of Command to the following:
"During your command phase, each autarch on the table may use one of the following abilities:
--Select one friendly asuryani unit within 18". That unit may shoot and charge this turn even if it falls back in the movement phase.
--Select one friendly asuryani unit within 18". In the shooting phase, that unit may move 7" (following all rules for the movement phase) immediately after shooting.
--Gain 1CP. Only one autarch may select this ability each turn."

My hope is that this makes the army overall more mobile and makes autarchs feel like they're actually coordinating the army's maneuvers rather than shouting, "Shoot better" at the guys around them. The advantage of the first two options over the bonus CP option is that they basically let you use our "shoot after moving" and "shoot/charge after falling back" strats multiple times in the same turn.



Psykers
Spoiler:

* Change Ghost Helm to the following:
"When a model with this rule would lose its last wound as a result of Perils of the Warp, it remains alive with 1 wound but may not cast or deny psychic powers for the remainder of the game."

* Give warlocks and spirit seers the Ghost Helm rule.

Because our millenia-old warlocks probably shouldn't have such a good chance of killing their pals in a psychic explosion. Plus, this makes farseers more susceptible to perils in general (just not to dying from it), which will hopefully make them less annoying for your friends.



Phoenix Lords (General Changes)
Spoiler:

* All Phoenix Lords gain a 4+ invul and increase their Attacks characteristic to 5.
* New Stratagem:
A Knife in the Skein - - 2CP
Even the seers didn't expect the arrival of an asuryata, but the legendary hero may just tip the coming battle in the asuryanis' favor.

You may only use this stratagem if your entire army consists of Asuryani detachments. Use this stratagem during deployment. You may add a phoenix lord of your choice to your army by paying the appropriate number of reinforcement points.


For a long time, I thought it was neat that the PLs didn't have a generic invul save; that they had other little tricks to stay alive. In the current environment, however, it just makes more design sense to give them one than not. The extra attack is there because it's just weird that a generic archon is more skillful in melee than they are. A Knife in the Skein is basically my attempt at ripping off imperial assassins. As you'll see below, I'm ripping off the general "pay CP to do a cool move" thing that assassins have going on. I see it as a way to make PLs capable of impressive stunts without making them impractically-expensive or giving them an unsubtle raw power boost.

Asurmen is missing from the list below because I have plans for Dire Avengers, and what I do with them will likely impact what I do with him.


Baharroth
Spoiler:

*Loses The Brilliant Sun
*Loses Blazing Fury
* Gains the following:
Aeriel Adept: During your command phase, you may select one of the following abilities:
* Baharroth and Swooping Hawks units currently within 6" of him may shoot and charge even if they fall back this turn.
* When Baharroth and up to one unit of Swooping Hawks currently within 6" of him advance in the following movement phase, they may advance 10" (instead of d6").
* The following stratagems may only be used if you include Baharroth in your army.

Haywire Barrage - - 1CP
Use this stratagem when you target an enemy vehicle with a swooping hawk unit's grenade pack ability. Instead of resolving that ability normally, the target vehicle takes d3 mortal wounds and suffers a -1 to all to-hit rolls until your next command phase.


The Brilliant Sun - - 3CP
Use this ability at the start of the fight phase. For the remainder of the phase, Baharroth may only be hit on an unmodified to-hit roll of 6.


Aerial Escape - - 1CP
Use this stratagem at the end of the fight phase. Baharroth may immediately move (and advance) or fall back as though it were the movement phase.

I used to use Baharroth a lot (and still use him occassionally), but I really miss the mobility his Hit & Run rule used to provide swooping hawks.



Fuegan
Spoiler:

*Loses Unflinching Focus
* Change Unquenchable Resolve to: "Increase Fuegan’s Strength and Attacks characteristic by an amount equal to the number of wounds he has lost during the battle (discounting wounds that have been restored)."

* The following stratagems may only be used if you include Fuegan in your army.

Fireball - - 3CP
When Fuegan or a fire dragons unit within 6” of him destroys an enemy model with the Explodes! Rule (or something similar), you may select the value of the d6 roll to see if it explodes rather than rolling.


The Dragon's Roar - - 1CP
Use this at the start of the Fight phase. Fuegan and up to one fire dragons unit within 6” of him gain +1 to their Toughness and Attacks characteristics until the end of the phase. 1CP.


Age-Old Weakness- - 1CP
Use this stratagem when an enemy vehicle or monster loses 1 or more wounds as a result of Fuegan’s attacks. Until the start of your next command phase, that unit is treated as having half as many wounds remaining for purposes of determining its current abilities on the damage track.

I tried to avoid using Fuegan as an excuse to give dragons a raw power boost. Instead, I tried to turn him into a way to get the most out of dragons' current abilities and to let him briefly debuff those problematic vehicles that you just can't get to right away. The changes to Unquenchable Resolve mean that he gets his buffs right away regardless of what phase he takes damage in. This turns him into more of a melee threat that can help finish off targets your dragons didn't quite kill or chop up melee threats trying to keep your dragons from shooting again next turn.


Jain Zar
Spoiler:

*Loses Cry of War Unending
*Loses The Storm of Silence
*Attacks characteristic becomes 6
* Gains the following:
The Scream that Steals: Enemy units wishing to fall back while within 6" of Jain Zar must roll a d6. On a 4+, they fall back as normal. Otherwise, they may not fall back this turn.

* The following stratagems may only be used if you include Jain Zar in your army.

The Storm of Silence - - 2CP
Use this stratagem at the end of the fight phase. You may pile in and attack with Jain Zar a second time.


Impossibly Quick - - 3CP
Use this at the start of the Fight phase. Jain Zar may only be hit on an unmodified to-hit roll of 6 for the rest of the phase.


Ear Bleed- - 1CP
Use this stratagem at the start of the Fight phase. Enemy units within 6" of Jain Zar treat their Attacks characteristic as 1 lower (to a minimum of 1) for the rest of the phase.


I've tried using Jain a bit this edition, and her low number of attacks (even with the gimmick that gives her bonus attacks when enough enemy models are nearby) just aren't enough to make her a scary melee threat the way so many marine characters are. So what I've tried to do is give her a small boost in attacks, the option for even more attacks as needed, and lots of ways to reduce the effectiveness of enemy combatants in melee. She might not punch as hard as some marine characters, but they'll have a heck of a time punching her back.



Maugan Ra
Spoiler:

* Lose Legacy of Altansar.
* Lose Whirlwind of Death
* Double the number of shots fired by the Maugetar’s ranged profiles.
Change The Harvester to:
"When you shoot with Maugan Ra in your own shooting phase, benefit from one of the following special rules:
The target of the attack may not fire overwatch in the following charge phase.
Maugan Ra may ignore the Look Out Sir rule when selecting a target this phase.
Reroll failed to-hit and to-wound rolls made by Maugan Ra this phase. "


* The following stratagems may only be used if you include Maugan Ra in your army.

Die! Die! Die! - - 3CP
Use this stratagem in your shooting phase while Maugan Ra is not within engagement range of any enemy units. You may immediately shoot the Maugetar (using the shuriken profile) at each visible enemy unit within 9” in an order of your choice. These attacks do not benefit from the The Harvester rule.


I See You - - 2CP
Use this stratagem when an enemy unit arrives from reserves. Maugan or a dark reapers unit within 6" of him may immediately shoot the arriving unit as though it were the shooting phase provided they have line of sight to said unit. (Basically lets Maugan Ra be your farseer for an off-brand version of Forewarned.)


Keep Your Distance -- 2CP
Use this stratagem when an enemy unit declares a friendly unit of dark reapers within 6” of Maugan Ra as a target of a charge. The unit of dark reapers may fire overwatch. The charging unit suffers a penalty to the charge roll equal to the number of models slain by the reapers’ overwatch.


Maugan's biggest issue has always been that his main gimmick is shooting, but he doesn't want to shoot at the same targets as his aspect. So here I've tried to give him options to support reapers (mostly against units trying to reach into your backfield to get them) while also allowing him to meaningfully contribute against targets downfield.



Karandras
Spoiler:

* Change the Master of Stealth rule. When arriving from deepstrike, Karandras may set up 9 - X” from enemy units. X = the current game round number.
* Change Shadow Strike to +1 to-hit on turns in which Karandras charged. (Instead of +1 to hit vs targets in cover.)
* The following stratagems may only be used if you include Karandras in your army.

Gone in a Blink- - 1CP
Use this stratagem at the end of the reinforcements step of the movement phase. Remove Karandras from the table and place him in reserves. He may arrive in subsequent turns using his Master of Stealth rule.


I Something's Out There- - 1CP
Use this stratagem in the command phase. If Karandras is in reserves, inflict d3 mortal wounds on an enemy unit within 7” of a board edge.


Taken Unawares-- 3CP
Use this stratagem when Karandras makes a successful charge roll. If Karandras arrived from reserves in the previous movement phase, he may only be hit on unmodified to-hit rolls of 6 until the start of your next command phase.


Karandras's offense doesn't seem that far off to me. His strength 8 weapon combined with his gun hat and 'Thousand Stings rules mean that he can dish out a respectable amount of damage. What I've tried to do here is emphasize just how sneaky he's meant to be. When he's off the table, he's a mortal wound generator that will make your opponent want to avoid table edges. When he comes onto the table, he's more likely to make his charge the more patient he's been. Taken Unawares lasts longer than the other "only hit on 6s" strats I've provided here, but it has the extra condition of only working when he pops out of hiding to take his foes by surprise.


So that's what I've got. Any thoughts? Do you like the assassin-style stratagems as a way of letting characters do something cool here and there? Do you prefer traditional aura buffs instead of these weird pseudo-orders I've given a few units? Are some of these abilities horrendously under/overpowered?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/02/04 09:44:04


ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
[Post New] 2021/02/04 11:01:14
    Subject: Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I think the Assassin-style CP rule doesn't really work in this case. In the case of Assassins you're using the CP to select from a very varied choice of models who all act independently, the choice of which is very heavily determined on what you're up against.

Phoenix Lords don't really fit into this, as they only really work when taken with their own Aspect. If you've included that particular Aspect in your force already, it makes no sense to pay 2CP to take that lord when you could have just included it in the army list.
   
[Post New] 2021/02/05 03:56:13
    Subject: Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Valkyrie wrote:
I think the Assassin-style CP rule doesn't really work in this case. In the case of Assassins you're using the CP to select from a very varied choice of models who all act independently, the choice of which is very heavily determined on what you're up against.

Phoenix Lords don't really fit into this, as they only really work when taken with their own Aspect. If you've included that particular Aspect in your force already, it makes no sense to pay 2CP to take that lord when you could have just included it in the army list.



I don't mind the idea of Phoenix lord specific strategems, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of their abilities tied to them. They should be able to do them all them time.

Also, phoenix lords are like Ronin, roaming the galaxy slaves to fate. They aren't attended by their aspects, in fact they spend most of their time alone. So they shouldn't NEED aspects to work. If that's the case then their rules are bad.


AGATHI - Honour & Blood
40k 2.5 edition
40k 37th Edition
Proper Phoenix Lords
 
   
[Post New] 2021/02/05 11:18:37
    Subject: Re:Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I really like the idea of the assassin style phoenix lord strat as it is very fluffy for them being lone wanderers so the speak. The challenge it has is making them all balanced at the same points cost as well as making them all useful in absence of their aspect warriors, otherwise the actual flexibility of the strat is limited to what you already have in your roster.

I personally would love to see them embrace the lone fighter idea in the rules. Cut most of their support abilities but make each of them absolutely terrifying at the role their aspect fills. Eg. remove Fuegan's rerolls for fire dragons but give himself full rerolls and double tap against 10+ or 12+ wound vehicles and monsters, remove Karandras' buffs to scorpions but give him either a closer deepstrike or charge buff to make him reliably get into combat out of deepstrike and give him a biting blade instead of a scorpion chainsword. Maybe lean Asurmen and Baharroth into more supporting roles as it sort of fits their aspect shrines but make them less reliant on having dire avengers or swooping hawks nearby to allow them to flex into a wider variety of armies.
   
[Post New] 2021/02/08 08:28:17
    Subject: Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Your responses are much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read through my ramblings.

Valkyrie wrote:I think the Assassin-style CP rule doesn't really work in this case. In the case of Assassins you're using the CP to select from a very varied choice of models who all act independently, the choice of which is very heavily determined on what you're up against.

Phoenix Lords don't really fit into this, as they only really work when taken with their own Aspect. If you've included that particular Aspect in your force already, it makes no sense to pay 2CP to take that lord when you could have just included it in the army list.

Fair criticism. As others have pointed out, PL narratively seem to do the "lone wanderer" thing quite a bit even if they are frequently found leading shrines of their aspect. (See: The Asurmen and Jain Zar novels as well as the Path of Warrior.) I may be confusing their roles too much, but I sort of tried to make them useful on t heir own while also giving each one at least one reason to hang out in the same list as their aspect. Do you feel I failed to make the PLs useful unless a unit of their aspect is present?

Hellebore wrote:
I don't mind the idea of Phoenix lord specific strategems, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of their abilities tied to them. They should be able to do them all them time.

Part of what I was aiming for was to acknowledge that PLs can pull off some really impressive stunts without giving them so much raw power that they fail to acknowledge how cool the characters of other factions are meant to be. I didn't want to make Baharroth so powerful that he'd win 9 out of 10 fights against Dante and thus take away from Dante's own cool factor.

Thus the assassin-esque CP-fueled abilities. You can make Baharroth nigh-impossible to hit, but you'll drain your CP fast if he's in Devil Trigger mode every single turn. Do you feel that that's the wrong approach? What sort of PL-specific stratagems to you picture? I feel like most of the strats I've pitched here would be too powerful if they became always-on abilities.

MagicCookie54 wrote:I really like the idea of the assassin style phoenix lord strat as it is very fluffy for them being lone wanderers so the speak. The challenge it has is making them all balanced at the same points cost as well as making them all useful in absence of their aspect warriors, otherwise the actual flexibility of the strat is limited to what you already have in your roster.

Yeah. I was initially hoping to bring the PLs close enough together in points cost to give them all the same (or close to the same) points cost. That way, you could set aside some points during list creation and decide whether you need Fuegan's anti-tank, Maugan's dakka, or Jain's stabbery once you saw your opponent's list. I'm really not sure I got anywhere close to that here. Probably not.

Do you feel the PLs as I've presented them are too dependent on their aspect to be worth taking without that aspect? Baharroth, for instance, definitely helps out a unit of hawks, but I had hoped to make him "bouncy" enough to serve as a roaming harassment unit.


I personally would love to see them embrace the lone fighter idea in the rules. Cut most of their support abilities but make each of them absolutely terrifying at the role their aspect fills. Eg. remove Fuegan's rerolls for fire dragons but give himself full rerolls and double tap against 10+ or 12+ wound vehicles and monsters, remove Karandras' buffs to scorpions but give him either a closer deepstrike or charge buff to make him reliably get into combat out of deepstrike and give him a biting blade instead of a scorpion chainsword. Maybe lean Asurmen and Baharroth into more supporting roles as it sort of fits their aspect shrines but make them less reliant on having dire avengers or swooping hawks nearby to allow them to flex into a wider variety of armies.

That's definitely the sort of thing I was trying to do. I left a couple of the buff auras in place where a raw damage boost really is something that the aspect in question needs. Dragons, for instance, just don't hit vehicles quite as hard as I'd like them to, and Karandras benefits enough from the 'Thousand Stings rule that it just seemed easier and appropriate enough to leave it unchanged. But I did try to move away from buff auras in general. I take it you don't feel I executed that concept well?

Also, I love the PL discussion, but did anyone have any thoughts on the generic HQ changes?

ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
[Post New] 2021/02/09 11:34:25
    Subject: Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






I think it is weird that no Craftworld psyker can explode, is that in the lore?

Why the 18" range on the Autarch orders? I think Autarchs are missing some way to represent their history of fighting in different aspects, especially with some weapon options no longer being available for tournament play.

I think you are introducing too many Stratagems with the Phoenix Lords. I like the idea of choosing the right Phoenix Lord for the job, seems fitting with Craftworld Eldar having an aspect for every job.
   
[Post New] 2021/02/10 07:06:51
    Subject: Asuryani HQ Changes
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 vict0988 wrote:
I think it is weird that no Craftworld psyker can explode, is that in the lore?

Good question! The answer is, "Sort of kind of mostly yes." The path of the seer is all about using runes as a sort of heatsink/surge protector for their psychic powers. If they're really pushing themselves, those runes might melt/explode/otherwise become unusable, but the psyker is more or less fine. I certainly can't think of any instances of a craftworld psyker self-destructs and takes other space elves with him. The closest that comes to mind is a farseer in one novel using an ancient, psychic doomsday device and turning himself into a husk by doing so, but even that didn't seem to result in a burst of damage to those around him. Farseers and warlocks use their powers extensively and frequently, yet doing so doesn't suddenly lower their life expectancy the way it does a human psyker or a weird boy. Well, it does for farseers, but that's because they start to slowly turn into crystal statues.

In earlier editions of the game, you actually never even rolled for a warlock's psychic powers. They were so good at using their powers safely that their powers were just always in effect. Which was good given that they were sergeants for the millitia guardian units. You didn't want your sergeant to be a timebomb ready to blow half your citizenry away. Harlequin shadowseers were similar, which is part of the reason it's so frustrating that they're so mediocre at casting their powers this edition. In 7th edition, the forgeworld corsairs (pirate eldar) had an alternative Perils of the Warp table that generally left them feeling crummy for the rest of the game, but never(?) actually caused the psyker to lose wounds.

So yeah. I don't think there's ever been fluff that explicitly says, "btw, eldar psykers never explode," but there's a lot of fluff and rules to strongly hint that that's the case. Right now, an unwounded warlock has a 1 in 3 chance of blowing up his own head whenever he rolls box cars or snake eyes on a psychic power. Sure, he's been casting powers for 3,000 years without issue, using the obsession that characterizes the eldar psyche to pursue a path dedicated to not making his own head explode, but this was just a really unlucky Tuesday.


Why the 18" range on the Autarch orders? I think Autarchs are missing some way to represent their history of fighting in different aspects, especially with some weapon options no longer being available for tournament play.

18" was just me eyeballing it. Letting their orders be table-wide seemed a bit much, but a 6" or 12" range felt like it would force them to only command the guys right in front of them rather than being commanders of the overall battle. I'm not married to that range.

I would love a return to being able to mix and match aspect gear. Taking away that option is one of the most frustrating asuryani-related decisions I've seen GW make.


I think you are introducing too many Stratagems with the Phoenix Lords. I like the idea of choosing the right Phoenix Lord for the job, seems fitting with Craftworld Eldar having an aspect for every job.

Fair enough. Any thoughts on which strats you'd/keep/ditch/add? I wanted to make the PLs feel like they brought options with them rather than just having a single "super move" that they'd use here and there. Unless you're really leaning into a gimmick, you probably aren't bringing more than 1 or 2 PLs to a game (and adding 3 or 6 strats to your list of options), but I could see that being a few too many.

ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
 
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