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What would make Leman Russ Eradicators Relevant? I've been wondering how to make them relevant in terms of creating niches for all the Russ Variants without making it so that one type is just flat out better than all the others.

Personally I think that given its use of a sub atomic shell with a powerful blast. Given that it seems to operate in terms of being a quick nuclear blast, should it perhaps be phrased as a very "Dirty" bomb type deal, and give it the "Rad" type rules that Admech Vanguard have, where it lowers the Toughness of what it shoots at by 1, perhaps restrict it to infantry, or just nonvehicles.

Keep the statline as is, or perhaps increase its output slightly, but what are your opinions on this?

Removing all the AP and doubling or tripling the rate of fire would make it pretty unique. The AP makes ignoring cover irrelevant, going from a 4+ to a 5+ is not a big deal (33% bonus damage), going from a 2+ to a 3+ is (100% bonus damage).

It wouldn't have the same armour crunching ability of executioners, nor the outrageous short-ranged anti-infantry damage output of the punisher, but its lack of AP wouldn't be easily countered by cover, making it decent against both Marines in cover and Ork Boyz in the open, where a punisher will fail to punch through Marines in cover and executioners will fire too few shots to deal with Ork Boyz.

In short, the perfect anti-infantry city-fight Leman Russ it is meant to be.

Going with the dirty-bomb idea, how about just "+1 to wound rolls against non-vehicle units"?

If it's currently d6 shots at S6 D3 damage, (Special anti-cover rule) I say drop the random damage and just give it d6 shots of flat 2 damage and bump up the cost. It will never kill much with random damage AND random shots. Now the Executioner, there is a worthless tank.

That needs to be 1 shot of S9, AP5 2d3 damage. or 2d6 with a price hike.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If it's currently d6 shots at S6 D3 damage, (Special anti-cover rule) I say drop the random damage and just give it d6 shots of flat 2 damage and bump up the cost. It will never kill much with random damage AND random shots. Now the Executioner, there is a worthless tank.

That needs to be 1 shot of S9, AP5 2d3 damage. or 2d6 with a price hike.

The Executioner is one of the best ones at the moment, you sure you're not thinking of the Vanquisher?

I agree that the Vanquisher needs a definite upgrade, although it highly depends on if they change Grinding Advance or not.

 Valkyrie wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If it's currently d6 shots at S6 D3 damage, (Special anti-cover rule) I say drop the random damage and just give it d6 shots of flat 2 damage and bump up the cost. It will never kill much with random damage AND random shots. Now the Executioner, there is a worthless tank.

That needs to be 1 shot of S9, AP5 2d3 damage. or 2d6 with a price hike.

The Executioner is one of the best ones at the moment, you sure you're not thinking of the Vanquisher?

I agree that the Vanquisher needs a definite upgrade, although it highly depends on if they change Grinding Advance or not.

Thank you, Vanq is the one. I am getting all the worthless configurations confused.

I think the idea of making the eradicator the support variant is a fairly solid idea. The other tanks pretty much have every other target covered.

So some sort of debuff combined with medium damage capacity would make it an attractive option. Wound a unit to give a debuff to various stats would feel pretty good be it movement, toughness or accuracy as the unit is shellshocked by the concussive blast.

Thank you guys for the feedback.

I've honestly wanted to revamp Russes since 7th Edition, when I really got into 40k. Back when proper Cover Saves were a thing it had a proper niche, but now its super niche and as pointed out, suffers from being surrounded by better options.

I've always thought that Grinding Advance was an inelegant approach and that simply giving the main guns double shots was rather uninspired. Making them unique and feel like the main armament of a tank is where I'd prefer to go.

Though I have ideas for the other Russes, slap the Vanquisher Cannon with Strength 12, AP-5 and D6+5 damage, make that gun hurt to get shot with, but with a low enough fire rate that it doesn't obsolete other tanks/super heavies without invulns.

Battle cannons should have two kinds of shell like a Missile launcher, a Frag and Krak shell. Make the Frag something like BLAST: 2d6 shots at STR 5/6 AP-1 and D1, while the Krak Shell is Strength 10, AP-3 d6+2 damage. Make them feel very strong.

Change the Executioner Cannon to be stronger than simply a pair of infantry portable autocannons. Make it Heavy 8 (like it sorta is right now) Strength 7 or 8, AP-2 and D2. Its now the go to Marine/light vehicle killer.

I'm uncertain about the Punisher, other than buffing that gatling cannon to a higher ROF, along with the Demolisher, as it's gun is tied to the Vindicator. Though if I was GW I'd just drop an online Errata for all Demo Cannons, things look like the main gun of the Sturmtiger, they should easily have the blast to destroy things on close misses. Hell, I'd make that the anti castle gun, keep the short range, but instead of d6 shots against a target, its more akin to, something like (Unescapable blast, make a single hit roll against one enemy model, every unit within 3 inches of that model takes d6 Strength 10, AP-3 d6 Damage hits. Make it a way to clear out an area of durable enemies.

The only thing I can think of for the Executioner is giving the gun a statline more like the Heavy Plasma cannon, its always D2, on an overcharge it becomes Damage 3.

I don't have any projections for these points, though given the battlecannon changes, I'd say, change its price to 160, it should be by far the cheapest Russ, even if its weaker than the others at their specific job.

I like the "rad" idea for the Eradicator.
One other wild idea I once had was to give it the ability to hit infantry through walls to simulate the radiation part. So basically instead of needing line of sight to a target it just needs to be able to hit a spot within maybe 1-2 inches of the infantry. So if they hide behind a building wall he can still kill them. Very gimicky, but unique

Even a Deathstrike Missile needs to target units directly, I don't think adding in any form of blast will be viable.

You could give it something like reroll wounds against targets in cover. A similar rule exists in Killteam.
It would allow the Eradicator to keep it's niche as the anti-cover munition. Perhaps also give it a higher 'RoF' than the Battlecannon to represent a larger blast.

Although in general all the turret weapons need an overhaul really, and current 'blast' rules (or lack thereof) are terrible.

Allow its cover removing debuff to last longer, so it removes the benefits of cover from any unit if it causes any unsaved wounds, for the rest of the shooting phase. Enemy unit is so shaken they cannot use cover effectively or something.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Even a Deathstrike Missile needs to target units directly, I don't think adding in any form of blast will be viable.

You could give it something like reroll wounds against targets in cover. A similar rule exists in Killteam.
It would allow the Eradicator to keep it's niche as the anti-cover munition. Perhaps also give it a higher 'RoF' than the Battlecannon to represent a larger blast.

Although in general all the turret weapons need an overhaul really, and current 'blast' rules (or lack thereof) are terrible.

I do think it should have to target a unit, reduce it to a single hit roll and then make it "blast" against any nearby units within a specific distance of a single model chosen by the firing player, representing the unlucky sod getting hit by the shell and everyone nearby being effected. Say d6 shots against the first unit and d3 against those around it?

There has to be a better way of representing Blast then the current rules.

I’d change the eradicators damage to flat 2 and then give it the special rule as the tremor cannon.

Make it something of a de-buff weapon.