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I think titanic models like knights, lord of skulls, etc need some help. My suggestion would be to give them an engagement range of 3 inches instead of 1 inch. This also makes a lot more sense, because the reach of a knight wielding a massive sword or a Lord of skull wielding a massive cleaver has got to be a lot more than an infantry model. This allows them to get into melee combat much easier, plus they can more easily tag multiple units.

Just for clarification: that would mean that a Knight has to fall back as soon as something is within 3" or he cannot shoot, right? What if a nontitanic unit is within 3", does it count as engaged and can not shoot? Can it fight?

A knight can already fall back over models, shoot and then charge anyway. But yes, if this applies to knights, that means that as long as a unit is within 3 inches of a knight, then it is still considered within engagement range and hence cannot shoot unless it can shoot into combat anyway (like a vehicle).

Yes he can fall back and shoot, but he cannot shoot (at things putside engagement range) while engaged. 3" engagement range would mean 3 pointing him with vehicles cavalry or monsters might even be a bit easier.

Regardless of that as I asked: what about non titanic units within 3"? So the Knight can attack the Bullgryns 3" away, can they hit back or so they have to consolidate into 1" first?

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Just for clarification: that would mean that a Knight has to fall back as soon as something is within 3" or he cannot shoot, right?

No? Because all vehicles can fire into melee now?

Sorry. I'm probably missing something obvious. How does this help titanic units? The only benefits I can think of seem... janky, and I can see some potential problems stemming from this change.

PROS(?)
* Titanic units could swing at non-titanic models who won't be allowed to swing back unless they pile in meaning you could theoretically keep non-titanic units from swinging back against your titanic units by having a non-titanic unit closer to enemy unit and standing in the other direction. Is that... the intent? That feels gamey/non-simulationist as heck and really wonky mechanically.

* The shorter charge range would functionally give you +2" to your charge range. If your delivery system is to just cross the table, this is comprable to just giving titanic units one or two extra inches to their Movement stat, which would be less complicated mechanically. If you put your titanic untis in reserve somehow, this suddenly makes imperial knights and baneblades really good at ambushing out of the shadows and ambushing things in melee. Which doesn't seem very fluffy or fun to play against.

CONS
* Some rules use terms like "while within engagement range." Asymmetrical engagement range suddenly means that all such abilities would need to be reworded to clarify whether we're talking about the titanic unit or the non-titanic unit.

* The gamey weirdness mentioned in the pros section.

* Minor rules bloat. This creates another exception that we have to remember. Probably not the straw that breaks the camel's back, but another straw on the pile all the same.

Basically, this change would raise a lot of questions, and the only benefits I see for titanic units are pretty cheesetastic in nature. What am I not seeing?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Just for clarification: that would mean that a Knight has to fall back as soon as something is within 3" or he cannot shoot, right?

No? Because all vehicles can fire into melee now?

But it can't shoot at what it wants but has to shoot at what is in engagement range. Which is - in my opinion - a downside.

If I have a Titanic shooty unit I want to fire at juicy targets, not at the couple of deathriders who happen to be within 3".

What happens if I were to surround my stompa with gretchin? the stompa can, reasonably, fight over the top of the gretchin, but would the gretchin prevent you from attacking my stompa at all?

Not that I think that's a bad thing. Perhaps the simple answer is to give titanic melee weapons a shooting profile with a 3" range which can target units in melee, so they can "shoot" with the melee weapons from a short range?