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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Greetings gentle readers,

For a long time, I have been interested in trying to host a "Highlander" themed RPG game session. The idea is that as the players go through the adventure, when they achieve certain "plot points" it would trigger certain flash backs that would help them "solve" the adventure and get to the big reveal.


A couple of thoughts:
- My gut says everyone in the party should be an "immortal" so they can take part in the various "flash back" sequences. However, there is space to have non-immortals in the game too. I just feel like they would get "less" out of the setting/game.

- How much should I let the Players RP the flashbacks. Should they be narrated, or should I let them navigate the Flash Backs as if they were still playing, just in a different time period.

- I initially planned on homebrewing the rules, but am open to suggestions on an easier way to do it

With all that being said, any thoughts on how to approach and adventure and potential campaign using this "model"?


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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Wow, this is a topic that could generate really rich discussion!

But first off, let me ask: how much do you want a Highlander RPG in contrast to just a RPG about immortals?

If you want a Highlander RPG specifically, what is your take on the main theme of that IP?

For me, it comes down to inverting our fundamental instincts. Immortals cannot have children. They cannot ever fulfill that biological imperative to pass on their genes. Unlike all other life, they do not compete to leave a gentic legacy beyond their individual deaths. Instead, they are driven — no less instinctually — for a more literal version of survival. All things being equal, they can personally endure time without limitation. And yet, so long as any other immortal exists, they are nonetheless haunted by the spectre of mortality. Thus, according to their nature as living beings, they must elimnate each other for the sake of ensuring their own survival.

This means they can never find real companionship with one another. And, being human in other respects, they still crave membership in the human family. But their immortality cuts them off from the relationships that form that connection, again and again, as their loved ones perish while they themselves persist. It drives some to suffer nihilistic ennui, others to revel in psychopathic god complexes, and still others to take up the mantle of guardians of mortals against the depredations of their own kind.

At the same time, ironically, mortals would covet their immortal nature if they learned the truth, and despise them. So as much as they are cut off from humanity by their physical nature and its psychological consequences, a veil of secrecy also separates them from other people. This burdensome secret in turn forms a kind of brotherhood among them, a sense of shared suffering and duty that binds them to chivalrous conduct, at least among one another: to fight in single combat and to honor the peace of sacred ground.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/07/09 19:00:44


   
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MN (Currently in WY)

I think you highlight really well why that RPG could be really fun!

We see in the Highlander tv show a variety of perspectives and motivations portrayed. It would be fun to explore in an RPG, but the “party” hook seems like a big challenge!

Edit: I was definitely thinking more Highlander than The Old Guard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/11 05:32:16


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MN (Currently in WY)

As I was thinking a bit more about this campaign, a couple random thoughts also popped into my head.

1. It might be fun to play a campaign set in various different time periods, with the game culminating in the "modern" setting of 1992.

For example: Adventure part 1 might be in 1776 during the American Revolution, the 2nd could be in 1880's during the Guilded Age, and the final episode could be during 1992.

2. The more I think about the game, basic skill and ability tracking with numbers seems pointless. The traditional +2 for Stealth, or Strength of 16 makes 0 sense to me.

After watching the TV show of Highlander several times recently, it is clear that each immortal is defined by two things: A fighting style, and a Primary Area of focus such as "Law Enforcement", "Military", "Music", "Street", "Athletics", etc. They have all the skills in those areas at a high level as that is their passion. They may have a secondary Area of Focus as well.

The Mortals also have a similar focus to fit into the plot/stories but their skill level may not be as high as an Immortal version.

3. After watching more of the TV show, Mortals have to be playable at a PC level. I could see a mechanic where how well you play one allows you to carry over some advantage into the "next generation" who could be descendants or brand new Mortals. After all, Mortals are often the catalyst for plot, story, or conflict in the show and movies.

4. I think a "Life Path" high level system for character gen could be fun where you start with your "Immortals" age, and then determine what they were doing in 50 year increments (2 generations). This could reflect in background how an Immortal went through the different stages Manchu highlights of being Pro-mortal, to nihilistic, back to optimistic, to secretive, etc.

Again, based on watching the show they show Immortals fluctuating through different stages to keep things interesting. Sometimes, they are highway men, sometimes they are nobles, other times they are travelers or religious folks. Sometimes they are really engaged with the mortal world, and sometimes they are isolated or trying to stay out of the game.

Mortals would have a much more abbreviated life path or 1 generation.

5. So, I am also thinking there may have to be some thing similar to a light side/dark side points, to give it a name. The more "good" things you do, the more of a reputation/esteem you gain with other immortals, the more bad things you do the more likely you are to succumb to madness, psychosis, and nihilism.

At this point, I am still spit-balling how to make what is presented on screen into something "game able".

On the flip side, I was also thinking a bit about how a Solo/VS. skirmish game would work, and that is MUCH easier for me to imagine than an RPG version.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/12 14:07:34


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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Are you aware of this?

https://riverhorse.eu/our-games/highlander-the-board-game/

   
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MN (Currently in WY)

Yes, BUT I have not played it.

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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

This is a setting that screams White Wolf. Specifically, it's exiled stepchild- the Streetfighter STG.

Characters are defined by their fighting style, just make sure they're a duelist so they have a bladed weapon. Duels are involved, multiround affairs of trying to guess your opponent's move while setting up your own combos.

And of course, this forgotten relic of the 90s is available totally free of charge.

https://sfrpg.com/wp-content/uploads/Street-Fighter-TSG-20th-Anniversary.pdf

It's really well suited to any game where the protagonists are either seeking out duels of any sort, whether you're a first generation Soviet cyborg built by Nazis, a sumo striving to be a ninja or a dude who learned martial arts by binge watching Taebo exercise tapes.

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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Someone did a WoD homebrew for this which can be found pretty easily (and IMO is actually kinda by-the-numbers).

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Regarding their roleplaying of flashbacks, this would be dependent on the importance of the outcome of the flashback.

For example - if they are walking through a car park, and a woman steps out in front of them with a sword - cut to flashback. During the flashback they meet and interact with the woman, and they get to roleplay it all, and so they can determine exactly what their relationship with the woman is - does she like them, or does she dislike them? Is she an enemy, a friend, someone they made a pledge with never to kill unless it was just the two of them - it's all optional. Then, when they return to the normal time, the woman will act as she would depending on how the flashback went. The players have effectively full agency over how the NPC's interact with them - but this will only work if the flashback happens before any interaction, at first sight.

Try to make it such that each NPC introduced in this way has different, contradictory standards which prevent them from just making friends with everyone.

For NPC's who need to remain strictly friendly or enemies, try to have them appear in these other flashbacks as sidelines - EG the Kurgan, appearing as the bad guy you can choose to try and save the woman from or not. Regardless of your choice, the woman survives, but she might resent you, or owe you one. The Kurgan would remain evil in every flashback, and won't get their own one with individual interaction, otherwise they can just try to persuade them to be nice or something. Keep the plot-critical goodies and baddies on the sideline, and the filler characters get their own, as defined by the roleplay characteristics!

All in all, it sounds really fun!


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MN (Currently in WY)

True Confession time....

I never played a White Wolf game. I was out of RPGs when they were a thing, so missed out completely on that style.

@Gitzbitah- Thanks! I will look at that. However, in my mind the duels are secondary to the interactions leading up to the duels themselves. However, I do still want them to be fun to fight.

@Manchu- I will try to track down the adaption you are referencing. By-the-Numbers does not mean bad.

The more I think about the game, the less traditional crunch makes sense to me. Therefore, something more narrative and rules lite seems appropriate as a baseline.


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Solahma






RVA

Here you go:

https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1492979224426.pdf

It has some good ideas you could mine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 19:26:02


   
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MN (Currently in WY)

Sweet! Thanks!

Edit:
I noticed in the notes of this document the following information.

The use of the “Highlander” name in these rules is not a
challenge to the rights of Thunder Castle Games, Inc. publisher of the “Official Highlander Trading Card
Game” and the “Official Highlander Role–Playing Game.”


Has anyone ever found or played this "official" Highlander role-playing game before?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/14 20:12:05


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MN (Currently in WY)

The more I research into this, the less I think a Highlander RPG will work very well.

The Old Guard could be done easier and fits into the RPG aesthetic easier. However, I have less interest in running a game like that.

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Pyre Troll






i recall hearing about a game called 1000 year vampire or somesuch. now its a solo rpg, but the mechanics for how it works across time gaps might be worth checking into
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

Thanks.

After playing some more Powered by The Apocalypse system the other day it has got my wheels turning again on this. Also, reflecting on a recent game with Those Dark Places also points out that I really need to simplify and remove crunch for this game to work.

The Party hook is still an issue BUT I think it can be overcome using the Party Connection model. I.e one Immortal can be the Mentee of another one, another a former mentee, while others are united by a past experience/connection. Plus, I can place games decades apart so they are not "constantly" hanging around each other similar to how The King in Yellow manages it.

I have also been watching a lot of the TV series lately, and that is pointing out how to bridge some of these issues. For example, Immortals seem to fall into various archetypes based on preference which can be incorporated into a class/style preference system. For example, Duncan is a pure warrior type, Darius the Monk is more of a scholarly type, Amanda The Raven is more of a thief type, Joan Jett was focused on duplicity/manipulation, while Kuyler the Mime was a trobadour type.

The same with various sword fighting techniques. The specifics of the swordfighting do not matter, but different styles will probably give some basic benefits. For example, the 'Polish" Style is more sabre based and uses the curvature of the sword therefore perhaps a feint ability that reduces the opponents combat skills, while the German school is based more on half hander and two-handed Great Swords, so would have a strength or damage bonus. The actual fight would be abstracted a lot.

Finally, I see The Quickening as a stat that can be used to garner information about other immortals and "flashback" clues. However, it can be depleted like Void in L5R to re-roll, various bonus efforts and/or to regenerate injury and death. An immortal can only "die" if their Quickening Pool is reduced to zero. Then, if they take damage enough to die.

I still think there is room for Mortal classes as well, but it is a bit like putting Space Marines with Regular dudes in Black Crusade.

My final concern is.... why am I wasting my time this project instead of using my time to build fresh games that can make me money? Mostly as a thought exercise and for my own personal desire to play it. In other words, the best reason in the world, because I want to play it!

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MN (Currently in WY)

I kept running in an issue about why you would not want an old immortal with more experience and such. After watching an episode of the show called called "Studies in Light" (IIRC) you see that immortality starts to take a toll on your humanity/sanity. Therefore, it makes sense older immortals will be burdened with more mental quirks/disadvantages.

Thoughts?

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MN (Currently in WY)

Okay, I think I have a draft of the rules in a playable state, but I will need to give them a run through with my local group.

I cribbed heavily from PbtA and 2d20 systems and I am not ashamed to say it. Therefore, the game does not have that much crunch, and is a bit more narrative based.

The core mechanics are a d12 system. The Watcher (GM) gives you a difficulty and an Attribute to roll on. The Player can choose a value. The attribute + Value = a Target Number and below on the d12.

The twist is that by default you roll 1d12, however more difficult tests require more than 1 success! You gain extra dice through various focus, tests, and equipment. In addition, you can also gain extra dice from a Quickening Pool or ask the Watcher for some.

If you pull from the Watcher or fail roles it generates Dark Quickening that the Watcher uses to change the stakes. So, there is a Meta-currency using the Quickening, which normally I hate but seemed to work okay for this game type of game. We'll see.

The rules are very simple. However, a key mechanic in the game is that the Watcher never roles any dice. Only players roll dice to gain results, the Watcher only adds challenge and raises the stakes with Dark Quickening.

Any initial thoughts on the basic design?


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Norn Queen






I'm interested in seeing the draft. It's hard for me to get y head around mechanic until I make a character and simulate some rolls.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

I will get it into a place I can share it, and send you a PM Lance.

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Norn Queen






Appreciate it. Look forward to it.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

I found some suckers..... errr, I mean friends..... to give this game a whirl on the 28th. I will let you all know how it goes.

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MN (Currently in WY)

Thanks to Lance for some great feedback, I went back and was editing it again today into a v3 version.

The addition of Drives, Ties, and Burdens is a much better mechanic than what I had previously! Thanks Lance! I also went back and re-added some stuff about Immortal age, Quickening Pool limits and uses, and clarified the role of The Watcher.

Since The Watcher never rolls any dice, I want to clarify this important task on what is and is not their role as the GM. I could see an inexperienced GM or an experienced GM from another system really struggling with this concept. Many of the mechanics are much more abstract and narrative/story based than crunchy.

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Norn Queen






Sweet. Glad I could help. Hopefully this sheds some light on how meta currencies can be a good thing. I know it's not to everyones taste but there are some really good uses of them (just like there are some really poor uses of them).


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

I was never a huge fan of them, but trying to design using them has opened my eyes to the possibilities. I have been leaning rules-lite for some time and this seems like a great method to continue my pursuits there.

Looking forward to see how it plays and the players react as their primary RPG experience is D&D. The few non- D&D One-Shots we have played did not use Meta-Currency at all.

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MN (Currently in WY)

Now, I am left trying to build some sort of scenario to play for the one-shot.

I am thinking it will somehow involve art smugglers that are led by an immortal who are trying to lift/smuggle an artifact that is somehow relevant to the history of the PCs.

Not 100% sure how I am going to pull it off. I am looking for that initial scene hook that will really pull the players in. However, I have been reviewing plot hooks from the TV show like crazy.

I am 100% open to hearing some ideas.

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MN (Currently in WY)

For those that are interested, here is the V4 Princes of the Universe RPG rules.

https://app.box.com/s/z5bn2xn0hf3k1xdc6gta0wtdze8eo8du

Let me know what you think.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/27 15:26:02


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I will look at it in the next day or 2 when i get some time


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

I got to play this game with some willing test subjects as a after Holiday One-shot. I got a lot of good feedback.

Let's start with the positive:
1. The players said they would certainly want to play again, and wished the Holiday outs were here to play the game as it was totally different from what they had played before.

2. They liked the community resource management and the "gambling" aspect of the game.

3. They enjoyed that the results of their successes were, "Tell me what happened, what you found, what you uncovered?" This led to a cooperative story-telling experience focused on RP, tied the game closely with their characters, and took the game in completely different directions.

4. "Every time I picked up the dice, I had to think about if it was worth it, or if I was just making my life harder." They enjoyed the dice system and in play quickly wrapped their head around it.

5. All players came with strong characters ready to RP based off the character creation process. They also saw opportunities to make completely different characters very easily. The process itself was quick and easy.

***Big shout-out to Lance as the Drives, Ties, and Burdens worked great!***

6. The numerical values players placed into their Values/Motivations also played a part in their role-playing during the game. A character with low Compassion scores acted accordingly, and ones with high Faith did too. The Values drove RP and decisions way more than the Attributes.

Now, onto the not so good stuff:

1. They saw little reason to play a mortal, and after playing with one in the party there is still work to be done there. The testers gave me great feedback on what this could look like.

2. Quickening came too easily, but was not used enough leading to too big of a pool for the players. The rate of Quickening and loss of Quickening will need to be tweaked.

3. When The Watcher used Quickening, the players felt targeted that the GM (Me) was trying to feth them up. The group would have preferred GM Fiat to actually seeing me flip a token in and tell them X just got harder because of Y.
A potential solution could be for The Watcher to spend all their Quickening at the start of a Scene and state all the challenges upfront.

For example; "You enter the meeting hall to find your contact. It is crowded and hard to see, strobe lights flash, music pounds, and the acrid stench of sweat and cigarette smoke hangs in the air." <The Watcher flips two tokens back into the Quickening Pool> "Due to the environment, you have -2 to Target Numbers and must Re-roll one of your successful dice"

4. The Advantage/Disadvantage system was a mess. It added complication for no value. Scrap it. A Disadvantage style condition should just burn Quickening from the Pool and advantage gain it.

5, Add in 1 is Crit Success and 12 is Crit Fail mechanics (Which in fairness, I have but they may not have noticed the Quickening Pool changes due to it)

6. Make players responsible for their own Quickening pool instead of The Watcher. In play, this was more of a group activity.

7. Due to the 0ne-on-one nature of immortal duels, it can make the big climactic fights difficult to make engaging. However, with the system they can go pretty quick.

And then a random bit....
Spoiler:

In the end, the Buddhist Monk immortal was facing down an immortal from her past, that had beaten her and forced her to flee for centuries. In return, her rival did not even remember them. There was a back and forth about the path of Buddha and leaving the cycle of despair and suffering.

A duel ensued in the control room of a radio telescope. Sparks flew, computers were smashed, and they leapt at each other around the room.

The rival immortal parried, and then used Quickening to smash the Buddhist Monk's sword in two. Her upper-hand seemed lost.

However, her friend a British Aristocrat immortal observing threw them his sword. Which she caught, spun, and used her martial arts to knock her assailant to his knees.

The monk raised up her sword to strike the killing blow, and the rival said; "Is this the path Buddha taught you?" The monk paused, considered these words. Instead, her blow struck and severed her rivals hands at the wrists.

The Monk then asked her rival to continue on his path to enlightenment. They let the the immortal retreat. His partying words, "Perhaps next we meet, you will be my master on the path?"

It was pretty epic. The key piece being, I had no plan going into the session. Instead, I set a opening adventure hook scene and the rest flowed from there based on what the players narrated as we went. It was way better than what I would have come up with. Lazy GM approach for the win!


So, onto some edits and V5 of the rules now.

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MN (Currently in WY)

Well, I put up some design notes for Princes of the Universe a Highlander themed RPG on my blog.

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2023/04/rpg-design-princes-of-universe-immortal.html

If you are interested in how and why the game went together the way it did, this maybe of interest to you.

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Fixture of Dakka





Very interesting!

As a soloist, Highlander is one of the few stories that offer much to work with as an Immortal is mostly a private individual and will out live not only those they do form relationships with, but also their current environment. Eventually there is the risk of another Immortal, or a group of individuals, finding them and so must either begin a deadly game of cat & mouse, or move on to another haven.

Then there is the aspect of mental health; how long can an Immortal go without reaching out to others? And if they do, will such people help the Immortal keep their focus in the present( increase their vigilance ), or just be a distraction that leaves them vulnerable?

My location is a bit naff for rpgs, but I'll see if some friends are up for it.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
 
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