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Help Necrons:

A psychomancer has the following 6" aura:

Nightmare Shroud (Aura): While an enemy unit is within 6" of this model, subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of models in that unit and subtract 1 from Combat Attrition tests taken for that unit.

The psychomancer is given the warlord trait Thrall of the Silent King pre-game:

THRALL OF THE SILENT KING
Add 3" to the range of this WARLORD's aura abilities (to a maximum of 9").

As The game progress the command protocol conquering tyrant is turned on and directive 1 is selected:

6. Protocol of the Conquering Tyrant

Directive 1: Add 3" to the range of this unit’s aura abilities (to a maximum of 12") and increase the range of the following abilities this unit has by 3" (to a maximum of 12"): Lord’s Will; My Will Be Done; Rites of Reanimation.

What is the range of his Aura? Here are my interpretations so far

Case 1) The Maximum Aura Range is specifically referring to the preceding sentence in the warlord traits/command protocols +3" on each aura ability

The base aura is 6".
The Thrall of silent king walord trait is selected. This ability boosts the aura to 9" and comply with the Max 9". The +3 from the Warlord trait has not moved it beyond 9.
The Command Protocol Boosts the aura from 9 to 12. This satisfies Command protocol clause of max 12".
The Thrall of Silent Kings clause is still satisfied of +3 max 9 since it hasn't increased the range of aura, another different ability has.

Case 2) Its all about sequencing and layers - Turn order.

Since Both Rules state a differing maximum range, the players which turn it is can choose to stack the modifiers in whichever order they choose.
Your turn:
+3 from warlord trait to 9".
Followed by +3 from Command protocols to 12".

Case 3) Its all about sequencing and layers - Pre battle selection.

The rules are applied in the order they are active. The warlord trait occurs pre-game so happens first.
Your turn:
+3 from warlord trait to 9".
Followed by +3 from Command protocols to 12".

Case 4) The Rules conflict - The Thrall of Silent is King overrides everything.

The Maximum 9" is universal and not just applying to preceding line on the +3 in the warlord trait description. A prohibitive actions tends to overrule an allowed action in 40k.


Currently, I am erring towards case 1, that the warlord trait is self referencing, its only saying the maxinium of 9 is specifically from the +3 of its own ability (and not discussing other abilites that may interact with auras).

Case 4 is correct.

 MinMax wrote:
Case 4 is correct.

Why?

You have a cap at 9" if you are beyond 9" it has no impact making it 9"

There is no such thing as a general rule which says that prohibitive rules tend to overrule allowed rules. I agree with case 1 being correct.

The same argument was made to argue that improving a save multiple times up to a 2+ Inv, when one of the abilities said to a max of 3+ Inv. It doesn't work.

If a rule says "to a maximum of X", then its effect would be ignored past that maximum.

So if you have an aura of 6", and two things that boost it by 3", and one of those two things says to a maximum of 9", then that ability would be ignored if it would help get you past 9". It doesn't matter the "order" that you stack the buffs in.

 Yarium wrote:


So if you have an aura of 6", and two things that boost it by 3", and one of those two things says to a maximum of 9", then that ability would be ignored if it would help get you past 9". It doesn't matter the "order" that you stack the buffs in.

You not using the ability to get past 9" though. Your only using it to get to 9". So it seems reasonable to me that its conditions are satisfied.

Your using a 2nd completely different ability to get past 9, which states explicitly that can you can go up to a maximum of 12.

Directive 1: Add 3" to the range of this unit’s aura abilities (to a maximum of 12") and increase the range of the following abilities this unit has by 3" (to a maximum of 12"):

Note: Conquering Tyrant is not an optional clause. It does not start with You may add. The player must add +3" to you auras size up to max of 12". If you have 9" aura, conquering tyrant states it must now be 12". That's the root of the issue.

The thing is, that restriction doesn’t care if you are using that specific ability to boost beyond the range limit. It just checks the result. You have two independent caps that both apply simultaneously and don’t actually care if the other one exists.

Apply all the rules.

You have two that state max 9” and max 12”, in this case.

The only way to satisfy both is if the aura is 9”.

Also, to my memory, GW is not fond of people using two rules different ways "round" in order to bypass a restriction, such as using a +1 inv to a max 3++ rule to get to 2++. They tend to go away.

It wouldn't surprise me if their intent was for Protocol of the Conquering Tyrant to further extend the aura already extended by Thrall of the Silent King, but that they've already had rulings on other things where both limits would still apply (as Johnny Hell brought up). Nosferatu1001's comment is also valid that the didn't like that type of getaround before. If they really meant for Thrall of the Silent King to work together with Protocol of the Conquering Tyrant to extend the aura to 12" they would need to FAQ it for it to work that way, as right now by RAW you would still have the 9" maximum restriction applying.

Asymmetric wrote:

 Yarium wrote:


So if you have an aura of 6", and two things that boost it by 3", and one of those two things says to a maximum of 9", then that ability would be ignored if it would help get you past 9". It doesn't matter the "order" that you stack the buffs in.

You not using the ability to get past 9" though. Your only using it to get to 9". So it seems reasonable to me that its conditions are satisfied.

Your using a 2nd completely different ability to get past 9, which states explicitly that can you can go up to a maximum of 12.

That's literally ordering it. You're saying that you use one first, and one second. You're saying that if you apply it the reverse way, using the other to get to 9" and then the former to get to 12", then it wouldn't work. My point is that it doesn't matter the ORDER that you stack the buffs - if you're using both to get to 12", then you are using the one that says you can't get more than 9" to get something more than 9". It's part of what's being used to get to 12", so therefore, by its own rules, it won't count.

It's like saying "I didn't stab the man, your honour. The knife did. My hand isn't sharp enough to stab on its own."
It doesn't matter - both the knife and your hand was used to perform the stabbing.
It doesn't matter - both abilities were used to get past 9 inches.