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Howdy all

Returning to 40k after 15 years off. New rules are quite different from what I played before. Theres not a store here, so I have no one local to ask. Playing SM, Orks, Necron and Tau. Want to make sure I am playing this right:

1. Pistols can shoot 'in melee' correct? For example, in the next turn after a melee first occurs those with pistols could shoot at those they are in melee right?
2. The line of sight rules are a little vague. It says you can see through other units in the unit firing. But what about seeing through friendly units? Enemy units? Is it just literally if they can see them? Does LOS originate from anywhere on the model, or with the weapon (ie. 1st generation marines in the front, Primaris in the back - they are taller, so they can see over?) I understand how terrain works, I just want to make sure I am understanding other units blocking LOS. So if my Redemptor Dread stands above everything else, even though there are friendly units in between, it can shoot at enemy units?
3. Wound distribution and Fast Die Rolling. Rules are very clear with a single attack that excess wounds are lost. But with Fast Die Rolling its not clear - so if my Ork Nobs have 2 wounds each, and there are 3 of them, and they are wounded by two 3 wound attacks, that would not be 6 wounds to take all three down, but two 3 wound attacks, so each attack would kill 1 Nob and there would be 1 excess wound lost per attack correct?
4. Declaring attacks. Do you have to do so upfront with each unit, or can you fire/melee with one guy, see the results, and then keep firing/melee? Videos I have watched they will spell it out all ahead of time, but do you have to?
5. Storm Shields. Typically a 4+ invulnerable save. But then it says add 1 to armor saving throws. Would that be on invulnerable save as well? Or just for normal armor saves? If you take it explicitly how its stated, it would be for invulnerable saves as well (ie. saving on a 3+) correct?
6. SM Devastator Doctrine. Heavy weapons and grenades. Does that mean grenade weapon type (frag or krak)? Or weapons with grenade in the name (ie. Astrates grenade launcher, Fragstorm grenade launcher, ect.)? If its grenade weapon type (ie. the ones you throw) that doesnt make much sense on the first turn - seems like that should be during the Assault Doctrine. Have been playing it grenade in the weapon name (the ones you shoot) not the ones you throw.

Those are the big ones that I am not sure which way to go on for right now.

Greatly appreciate it upfront.

On a side note, model quality is 100 times better than it was before. Very impressed with the more recent (last two years) quality in models.

Thanks again

(edited title per rules)

1. Pistols can be used in the shooting phase if the unit is within engagement range (Within 1 inch of an enemy model). Normal ranged weapons can not be used when the unit is engaged.

2. If your model has an uninterrupted Line of Sight to an enemy model it can target that unit. The thing about your own unit not blocking LOS is if the models in the same unit physically block LoS, you can ignore them for LoS purposes. LOS is from any point on the model (Even from the base of that model).

3. You can only fast roll to hit and to wound rolls. you allocate one at a time and apply damage. If you have only 2 attacks that have wounded, you allocate one attack, and the enemy makes a save, if failed, they take all 3 damage, if they only have 2 wounds, the model dies, and the excess 1 damage is lost. repeat for the second attack that rolled successfully to wound.

4. You have to declare all attacks before any dice are rolled.

5. "If you take it explicitly how its stated, it would be for invulnerable saves as well " No, not correct. Armor saving throws are not the same an Invuln saving throws. Adding 1 to armor saves does not affect Invuln saves at all. A SS gives a 4+ invuln.

1. Pistols can be fired by a unit that is in Engagement Range of enemy models at models within Engagement range of friendly models. This is done during that unit's Shooting phase. You do not use Pistols during the Fight phase.

2. When drawing LOS from a model, it may see through models of its own unit. LOS is drawn from anywhere on a model to anywhere on the target model. So yes, any model that can physically see over another model has LOS to models beyond that model.

3. Your analysis that 2 wounds can only kill 2 models regardless of how much damage those wounds do is correct. Note that you are not technically allowed to fast roll Saves, only Hit rolls and Wound rolls.

4. As noted in the rules for both the Shooting phase and Fight phase, a unit must assign targets for all its attacks before resolving any of its attacks.

5. Per the Rules Terms Glossary, an Armor Saving Throw is one made using the model's Save characteristic. It cannot be an Invulnerable Save.

6. It means weapons of the Grenade type, as opposed to Heavy, Assault, Pistol, or Rapid Fire. It is not a particularly useful ability.

Thanks for both responses. This really helps.

1. Perfect. Have been playing that correctly.
2. Understand LOS then - barring terrain, if you can see any part of them, you are good. Friendly and enemy units do block LOS, but not your own unit thats firing.
3. Perfect. Have been playing that correctly as well. But it helped to understand that you fast roll hit/wound only. The wounds are then applied one at a time which makes the math much easier.
4. Went back and re-read the rules. Missed that statement. That one was clearly in the rules - all attacks specified first.
5. Went back and re-read that as well. So its +1 to normal saves, but the invulnerable save is never adjusted - always just a +4.
6. Grenade weapon type is what I figured because everything else was by type, but this seems very useless on the first turn. Might house rule that this rule includes weapons with the word 'grenade' in the name.

Appreciate it again.

5) ye,s that's why it states ARMOUR saves, which are not invulnerable saves


If it had said "saves" then it would also have improved the inv save ROLL

As a note: it improves the rolls, it does not improve the armour save stat itself. This is important, because saving on a d6+1 against a stat of 2+ fails whenever you get to a "1", natural or modified (eg with AP)l. If your armour save was ACTUALLY a 1+, then it would only ever fail on a natural 1; AP would become irrelevant.

just to tag onto the points others have made, especially on point 3.


1) yes, pistols can shoot while you are still in melee, but it happens in your shooting phase, not the fight phase.

2) others have explained this better than i can, so i will leave it

3) if you have variable damage weapons, (for example, lascannons with d6 damage per wound, or primaris melta rifles which are also d6 damage), you need to roll each weapons damage seperately, allocate it (normally to the last wounded model if it's still alive), the opponent then rolls his Feel No Pain saves against that damage (which is a roll per point of damage done, so if you do 4 damage to a unit with a 5+ FNP, then he needs to make 4 FNP saves to stop all the damage), then roll the next, allocate it, FNP, etc. Yes, this means that excess damage is "wasted", but this represents the "overkill" of using weapons that powerful against weaker targets. A lascannon is really powerful, and anything it hits is normally toast, but it can only hit one target, not wipe out a whole squad in a single hit (that's what blast weapons are suppose to do).

4) Yes, you must declear all your shooting form a unit before a single attack is rolled.

Points 3&4 are deliberate, they force you to think about what your doing. you need to work out how your going to split your fire before knowing any of the results, and must base your decisions on estimates and probability math. Normally you will need to err on the side of caution and throw quite a bit more at a target than the minimum to ensure a useful effect. 3 also makes you think about the targets and your weapon loadouts. If you equip your devastator squad with 4 lascannons, you will have a potent anti-tank squad, but if they opponent rushes those devis with 30 ork Boyz, your not going to be able to stop him with those lascannons. Say you armed the squad with missile launchers, do you use krak rounds to ensure any hits result in kills, or frag to maximise the number of hits and try and kill via sheer volume of dice? depending on the target the answers may differ.


5) armour saves and Invulnerable saves are distinct things, and a bonus to armour saves does not boost invulnerable saves (though if the wording is just "saving throws" then it would). Also, note that you can no longer take a invulnerable save IN ADDITION to an armour save, as was done in some past editions, but INSTEAD of an armour save. So, a terminator with a 2+ save and 5+ invulnerable (normally abbreviated on this forum as 2+/5++), could take his 2+ save on most things, then when hit by a high AP weapon he'd fall back on his 5++ save.

6) grenades in this case means just the grenade type, not any weapon with "grenade" in the title. yhea, its not a great part of the bonus, but it might come in handy via certian deep strike tricks.

Everyone, appreciate the additional insight. This is the kind of stuff that gets reinforced playing against others, so thats what we are lacking right now.

One follow up question:

1. For Space Marines with the combat squads ability, if they split, they are treated as two entirely separate units at that point correct? For purposes of morale they would only test for the half squad losses then right? For CP expenditures, such as overwatch, you would be paying for one half squad at a time correct?

Correct. Once you combat squad a unit, it becomes two separate units for all Morale, CP, and be aware, VP purposes (such as kill more units etc).

Perfect. Have been playing that correctly. Thanks for the quick response.