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I haven't played any games since sometime in 3rd edition, and my army building capacity back then was more along the lines of "that marine looks cool if I give it a wolf head and double combat knives". So I have some weird models that probably aren't usable anymore.

That said, I am looking for some feedback on a new list. And I am strongly considering leaning into the "Santa Grimnar" theme. Five Thunderwolf Cavalry plus two cyberwolves and the two wolves on Stormrider and that's the full set of reindeer. I've got a 3d printer so custom bits for conversions shouldn't be as much of an issue. I have already picked up Logan on Stormrider and a Primaris Techmarine, but I am proxying the Cavalry, other Primaris and Contemptors currently. Haven't found a home store yet to play games so not in a rush getting everything.

102 PL, 8 CP, 1999 pts
Thane of the Retinue (-1 CP, Frost weapon on Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader)

HQ:
Logan Grimnar on Stormrider [9 PL, 180 pts]
Primaris Techmarine [4 PL, 80 pts] Armor of Russ
Chaplain [6 PL, -1 CP, 115 pts] Jump Pack, Warlord(Rites of War), Warrior of Legend(Warrior Born), Canticle of Hate(Aura), Combi-Melta

Troop:
Heavy Intercessor [7 PL, 150 pts] 5 models, Executor with 1 heavy
Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105 pts] 5 models
Infiltrator Squad [6 pL, 130 pts] 5 models, Helix gauntlet

Elites:
Company Veterans [3 PL, 40 pts] 2 models, both armed with Bolter and Chainsword
Relic Contemptor Dreadnaught [8 PL, -1 CP, 175 pts] Cyclone Launcher and double Twin Volkite Culverns
Relic Contemptor Dreadnaught [8 PL, -1 CP, 175 pts] Cyclone Launcher and double Twin Volkite Culverns
Wolf Guard [14 PL, 196 pts] 7 models, Jump Pack, Lightning Claw and Storm Shield each

Fast Attack:
Cyberwolf [1 PL, 15 pts]
Cyberwolf [1 PL, 15 pts]
Thunderwolf Cavalry [14 PL, 275 pts] 5 models, Lighting Claw and Storm Shield, Pack Leader with double Lightning Claw(Frost Weapon)

Heavy Support:
Long Fangs [9 PL, 213 pts] Cherub, 4 Long Fangs with Missile Launcher, Terminator Wolf Guard with Cyclone Launcher
Whirlwind [7 PL, 135 pts] Vengeance Launcher

Chaplain goes one way with the jump pack troops, Logan goes the other way with the Thunderwolf Cavalry, Techmarine footslogs up the middle with the dreads. Long Fangs, Heavy Intercessors and Whirlwind lock down the back field, and the Infiltrators/Incursors/Cyberwolves/Company Vets do their thing and annoy the enemy.

I am thinking of the secondaries:
Engage on All Fronts(Supremacy): The cyberwolves, company veterans, incursors, infiltrators sneak around the field to try to lock this one down.
Oaths of Moment(No Mercy): Hopefully the Techmarine can help with the center points
Heroic Challenge(Space Wolf, Purge): Point Logan at their nominated character and hope for the best

Variations:
I like having Grey Hunters with 3 plasma weapons(plasma -pistol, -gun, combi-) in a squad of six, but its a bit expensive. But, they may provide additional support for the Techmarine I suppose, especially when they all have chainswords as well. I have considered dropping one of the Volkites on one of the Contemptors for a Chainfist/DCW for an extra surprise when they get charged in melee, but it feels bad losing out on some potential mortal wounds.

Any blindspots? I feel like I might be skewing a little toward 1 damage weapons, and maybe my two fast blobs might not be big enough for the impact I want. Are there better Secondaries I should look at? Should I Death from Above/Cunning of the Wolf(Outflank) some units? Change up traits/relics?

Welcome back! Man I played from 2nd to beginning of 6th and I'm having crazy rules whiplash, must be pretty crazy coming back in from 3rd.

I feel like the heavy intercessors are a bit overcosted for what they do. If you're looking to keep backline objectives safe then I think the Deep strike disruption from infiltrators + helix gauntlet is actually going to do a better job than the intercessors will? There are a lot of ways of making that 9" charge go off but 12" is real tough.

Longfangs are also a tough sell. Since you've already got a techmarine I might just go for another one of the fancy dreadnoughts. I don't know jack about dreads in 9th tho so I'm not sure which to go for, but for the points you've got in the devastators you can definitely get one and probably have some points leftover. Probably enough to put storm shields on those company vets to make that squad great at parkin it on objectives and needing a good chunk of firepower to remove.

People have really been liking not putting Storm Shields on everything in the jump vet squads. You can allocate wounds to the ones that do, and the ones that don't can get the fancy toys. Just a way to save yourself a few points.

If you can, I'd always get the master of sanctity if your chaplain is riding along with a damage squad. For +25 points you go from ~3 litanies per battle to almost 7. And that can be some serious increases in output. If you give him the fancy chaplain warlord trait then that goes up to... a bit over 8 so... idk about that but I know people like it. Personally I'd take the rites like you have.

Regarding your damage 1 worry, there's lot more -1 damage coming out these days, so paying a premium for damage 2 is a bit dicier than it was. I'm still a noob tho so idk how much to consider that, just think that your worry about damage one isn't gonna hurt you too bad

Just watched a youtube commentator talking about forgeworld units, and was liking the commentary on the Rapier Carrier. It basically scratches the itch for why I had Missile Launcher Long Fangs (ie, a profile for horde and a profile for armor), and half of why I had the Whirlwind (indirect fire). No strat for fight last, but the Techmarine and the Chaplain have something to that effect already.

So of course, reformatting the list to have 2 Rapier Carriers with Quad Launchers. Drop the Heavy Intercessors for another squad of Infiltrators with Helix Gauntlet. Stick one of them on the two (if there are two) home objectives along with an Infiltrator squad each for the area denial. The direct fire option on the Rapier feels pretty good for when someone attempts to Deep Strike nearby and can't from the Infiltrators. And indirect fire for if anyone is using bodyguard-type rules which I think are becoming more prominent.

Storm Shield on Company Vets. Yeah, I can see it. They were there basically as barebones "super-cheap" objective holder... but that also means that a cheap-ish storm shield is useful. I think I'll drop the chainsword on the non-sergeant as he is more likely to use the boltgun before he dies and the sergeant has an additional base attack to benefit from the chainsword. Since I have the points free, I took a second squad as well. Toying with putting both of those squads in Reserves along with the Cyberwolves, as that's only 8 power so 1 CP for all 4 units. Would do a 3rd Cyberwolf, but I need that slot for the Thunderwolf Cavalry.

In that vein, I added 3 more Wolf Guard, and rearranged them so only 5 have LC/SS, 4 have LC/Chainsword and the Pack Leader with double LC since he should die last.

I have 34 points left, so I am tempted to drop the Combi-Melta on the Chaplain and throw in another set of Company Veterans and either Reserve the three squads (and not the cyberwolves), or have that third set follow the Techmarine around. But it feels like I am over emphasizing engage on all fronts with that, having 5 units in 'reserve' just for that secondary.

Alternatively, I could drop the Combi-Melta and a Cyberwolf and pick up another Thunderwolf Cavalry (with LC/SS). This feels more on point theme-wise (as the Cyberwolf will be playing the part of Rudolph, and it felt weird having two cyberwolves). 4 points left over, so maybe throw another SS on one of the Wolf Guard.

I looked at Master of Sanctity for the Chaplain, but I would lose Rites of War to pick up Wise Orator. None of the other Litany choices really jumped out at me, but now that I am looking at it again, the base Litany of Hate would probably be the second used in a round. Rerolling hits on a squad that already gets to reroll wounds seems good. Though it looks like I may need to drop one Wolf Guard that I just added earlier for the points.

Welcome back to the space wolves mate. I will try to comment on your list keeping in mind both fun and competitive options.

Logan is fun he isnt super competitive but if you present your opponent with enough targets then he might survive and make it to the enemy. All in all a Wolf lord on Thunderwolf or with a jump pack can be more annoying or effective.

Techmarine will sit back and babysit the Contemptors so there is no need to have Armor of Russ cause if he sees close combat things have gone terribly wrong. If you exchange Logan for a Wolf lord give the wolf lord the armor of russ, other wise give it to your chaplain cause he most probably will see cc. Upgrade the techmarine to master of the forge so he can heal for flat 3 instead of d3 and make him a primaris techmarine.

Chaplains are nice but primaris chaplains on bike are nicer. Generally speaking you want your chaplain to be master of sanctity cause he can then use two litanies everyturn which doubles his buffing power. Possible warlord traits are Hunter (advance and charge with +1 to advance and charge) or wise orator (cast litanies on +2 instead of +3 and the stratagem that lets you autopass a litany costs 1 CP). Keep in mind that a primaris chaplain on bike can move 21" with advance and then declare a charge with a +3 on the charge if canticle of hate is active. Combine him with a cc unit in a drop pod and you have a very nice first turn threat into your opponents face.


Heavy intercessors are kinda of overcosted. A unit of bloodclaws or simple intercessors are gonna do the job just fine. Keep in mind that you can have the two redemptors and the techmarine on an objective since volkites have 45" range so you will be able to shoot up almost everywhere on the board.
Your troops can be something like
Blood claws, Incursors, Incursors Or Blood claws, Inflitrators, Inflitrators depending on what you go against.

Elites.
Volkite contemptors are very good but if you dont go against a hoard army you can save 50points by removing the Cyclone launchers. Eitherway they can clear up the field from meatshields.
Company veterans have the bodyguard rule but which character are they bodyguarding? The techmarine?
The wolfguard are very very effective. By shaving some points from the list till now you can make them two squads of 5 and give the sergeant a thunderhammer. There are two reasons for this.
Savage strike stratagem (+1 to wound in CC) costs 1 CP on five models their footprint will be smaller and with the thunderhammer you have some added flexibility.

Fast attack.
Cyberwolves are nice to keep a home objective but if the enemy has any no LOS shooting you cant rely on them.
Thunderwolf cavalry is very very hard hitting unit but keep in mind they cant go through buildings. Also at least one hammer on the sergeant will add flexibility on target selection

Heavy support
I have mixed feelings about the whirlwind. No LOS shooting is always nice but you have enough antihoard shooting. Removing this you can go for something like a second squad of Longfangs with grav cannons without a terminator
On the longfangs remove the terminator. The ++5 isnt gonna help much if they are targeted and with the number of threats your list has they will not be top priority for you opponent. Also putting the in a drop pod and using keen senses on one of them will let you choose an advantageous position for them to apply their fire power and also keep them safe if you dont go first.

All in all your list if fun with some competitive units, but with a little tweaking it can become really really hard hitting.
For secondaries warriors pride is also very nice cause you need to have two units that charged or are in cc every turn for 3 points which goes very well with the wolves.
Anyway sorry for the long post I hope you find some of these comments useful. Lets us know how you are doing with it.

 Capamaru wrote:
Techmarine will sit back and babysit the Contemptors so there is no need to have Armor of Russ cause if he sees close combat things have gone terribly wrong. If you exchange Logan for a Wolf lord give the wolf lord the armor of russ, other wise give it to your chaplain cause he most probably will see cc. Upgrade the techmarine to master of the forge so he can heal for flat 3 instead of d3 and make him a primaris techmarine.

Techmarine is marching up the board with the Contemptors, mostly as a distraction (because they are seen as effective, they will draw fire). The Armor of Russ is there as a bit of a surprise if he does get charged and my understanding is, if he kills whatever he sets to fight last, that thing doesn't get to make attacks. Also considering throwing a chainfist on one of the Contemptors for that purpose. I had a Vindicator and a Venerable Dreadnaught with Axe and Shield a few revisions ago as well. Techmarine is already Primaris, a few revisions ago he was a regular one on Bike(along with a Wolf Lord on Bike) for extra shooting and saving points, but they are legends and I was trying to avoid that this time around. Master of the Forge... yeah, but I only have two dreads. I'll take it under advisement.

 Capamaru wrote:
Chaplains are nice but primaris chaplains on bike are nicer. Generally speaking you want your chaplain to be master of sanctity cause he can then use two litanies everyturn which doubles his buffing power. Possible warlord traits are Hunter (advance and charge with +1 to advance and charge) or wise orator (cast litanies on +2 instead of +3 and the stratagem that lets you autopass a litany costs 1 CP). Keep in mind that a primaris chaplain on bike can move 21" with advance and then declare a charge with a +3 on the charge if canticle of hate is active. Combine him with a cc unit in a drop pod and you have a very nice first turn threat into your opponents face.

Hunter doesn't stack with Canticle of Hate, so I disregarded it. I took Warrior Born for the same reason as Armour of Russ above. I also took Rites of War on that model for obj-sec, so I would need to drop obj-sec and fight first(and core w/in 6" fight first) for 2+ litany and charge after advance. I am not sure if that's worth it. Primaris Chaplain on Bike vs Chaplain w/Jump Pack... probably worth it. 10 more points but gets +1 toughness/+3 wounds/+1 attack... but loses the infantry keyword. So as you were saying "can't go through buildings" to keep up with the other Jump Pack troops he is escorting. Sure I could Death from Above them I suppose.

 Capamaru wrote:
Heavy intercessors are kinda of overcosted.
...
Your troops can be something like Blood claws, Incursors, Incursors Or Blood claws, Inflitrators, Inflitrators depending on what you go against.
...
I have mixed feelings about the whirlwind.
...
On the longfangs remove the terminator.

Already removed them, I have an updated army list in my previous post. Backline is now 2 Rapier Carrier Quad Launchers and 2 Infiltrator squads. The Terminator with the Longfangs was because the Cyclone Launcher is worth 2 missile Long Fangs and is cheaper (58 vs 66), and the cherub can be used on the Cyclone Launcher. The power sword/5++ is just cake at that point.

 Capamaru wrote:
Company veterans have the bodyguard rule but which character are they bodyguarding? The techmarine?
...
Cyberwolves are nice to keep a home objective but if the enemy has any no LOS shooting you cant rely on them.

Maybe, mostly there to be in reserve and appear anywhere for points.

 Capamaru wrote:
Thunderwolf cavalry is very very hard hitting unit but keep in mind they cant go through buildings. Also at least one hammer on the sergeant will add flexibility on target selection

Is a Thunderhammer better than double LC with frost weapon? 3 attacks WS 4 at S8 -2 AP 3 damage vs 5 attacks at WS 3 S5 -2 AP 2 damage reroll wounds. Assuming they are within range of Logan(or another captain) against a t7 vehicle the TH is 75% accurate, 66% to wound for 3 damage. So 5.94 expected damage with Shock Assault (ignoring armor since they have the same AP). Frost LC would be 89% accurate with 55% to wound for 2 damage. So 5.874 expected damage with shock assault. That is about the best case scenario for the TH and costs 5 more points.

 Capamaru wrote:
For secondaries warriors pride is also very nice cause you need to have two units that charged or are in cc every turn for 3 points which goes very well with the wolves.
Anyway sorry for the long post I hope you find some of these comments useful. Lets us know how you are doing with it.

I considered Warrior's Pride, but if you can't get 2 units for a turn 1 charge, you are losing maximum possible points. But, this might be an artifact of me not seeing a game board in 15 years and think it looks quite different. I hear there is a lot more terrain and the tables are much smaller than I used to play.
Granted, I was leaning toward Heroic Challenge, which requires Logan to kill a specific thing with a melee weapon for max points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If its just Rites of Battle and not Chapter Master:
TH 58.33 % accuracy for 4.66 expected damage (not 5.9)
LC: 77% accuracy for 5.13 expected damage (not 5.8)

Also, the whole Logan on Stormrider + 9 other various wolves was kind of the theme of the build (Santa and the reindeer), so not removing them.

Kaied wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
Techmarine will sit back and babysit the Contemptors so there is no need to have Armor of Russ cause if he sees close combat things have gone terribly wrong. If you exchange Logan for a Wolf lord give the wolf lord the armor of russ, other wise give it to your chaplain cause he most probably will see cc. Upgrade the techmarine to master of the forge so he can heal for flat 3 instead of d3 and make him a primaris techmarine.

Techmarine is marching up the board with the Contemptors, mostly as a distraction (because they are seen as effective, they will draw fire). The Armor of Russ is there as a bit of a surprise if he does get charged and my understanding is, if he kills whatever he sets to fight last, that thing doesn't get to make attacks. Also considering throwing a chainfist on one of the Contemptors for that purpose. I had a Vindicator and a Venerable Dreadnaught with Axe and Shield a few revisions ago as well. Techmarine is already Primaris, a few revisions ago he was a regular one on Bike(along with a Wolf Lord on Bike) for extra shooting and saving points, but they are legends and I was trying to avoid that this time around. Master of the Forge... yeah, but I only have two dreads. I'll take it under advisement.

Master of the forge is almost mandatory if you have more than 1 dread. Also if two units charge your Techmarine he will be able to set to fight last one of them so he is most probably dead.

Kaied wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
Chaplains are nice but primaris chaplains on bike are nicer. Generally speaking you want your chaplain to be master of sanctity cause he can then use two litanies everyturn which doubles his buffing power. Possible warlord traits are Hunter (advance and charge with +1 to advance and charge) or wise orator (cast litanies on +2 instead of +3 and the stratagem that lets you autopass a litany costs 1 CP). Keep in mind that a primaris chaplain on bike can move 21" with advance and then declare a charge with a +3 on the charge if canticle of hate is active. Combine him with a cc unit in a drop pod and you have a very nice first turn threat into your opponents face.

Hunter doesn't stack with Canticle of Hate, so I disregarded it. I took Warrior Born for the same reason as Armour of Russ above. I also took Rites of War on that model for obj-sec, so I would need to drop obj-sec and fight first(and core w/in 6" fight first) for 2+ litany and charge after advance. I am not sure if that's worth it. Primaris Chaplain on Bike vs Chaplain w/Jump Pack... probably worth it. 10 more points but gets +1 toughness/+3 wounds/+1 attack... but loses the infantry keyword. So as you were saying "can't go through buildings" to keep up with the other Jump Pack troops he is escorting. Sure I could Death from Above them I suppose.

Hunter stacks with Canticle of hate just fine, What doesn't stack from canticle of hate is the extra pile in distance and this is explicitly to prevent TWC to pile in and consolidate 7". Warrior born is crap. If you charge you are playing first either way, if you get charged you also have fight first but the fight first step begins with your opponent choosing units, so if you are charged by an appropriate unit you die.

 Capamaru wrote:
Heavy intercessors are kinda of overcosted.
...
Your troops can be something like Blood claws, Incursors, Incursors Or Blood claws, Inflitrators, Inflitrators depending on what you go against.
...
I have mixed feelings about the whirlwind.
...
On the longfangs remove the terminator.

Already removed them, I have an updated army list in my previous post. Backline is now 2 Rapier Carrier Quad Launchers and 2 Infiltrator squads. The Terminator with the Longfangs was because the Cyclone Launcher is worth 2 missile Long Fangs and is cheaper (58 vs 66), and the cherub can be used on the Cyclone Launcher. The power sword/5++ is just cake at that point.

Kaied wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
Company veterans have the bodyguard rule but which character are they bodyguarding? The techmarine?
...
Cyberwolves are nice to keep a home objective but if the enemy has any no LOS shooting you cant rely on them.

Maybe, mostly there to be in reserve and appear anywhere for points.

They don't have deepstrike so they don't appear everywhere. Look at strategic reserves.

Kaied wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
Thunderwolf cavalry is very very hard hitting unit but keep in mind they cant go through buildings. Also at least one hammer on the sergeant will add flexibility on target selection

Is a Thunderhammer better than double LC with frost weapon? 3 attacks WS 4 at S8 -2 AP 3 damage vs 5 attacks at WS 3 S5 -2 AP 2 damage reroll wounds. Assuming they are within range of Logan(or another captain) against a t7 vehicle the TH is 75% accurate, 66% to wound for 3 damage. So 5.94 expected damage with Shock Assault (ignoring armor since they have the same AP). Frost LC would be 89% accurate with 55% to wound for 2 damage. So 5.874 expected damage with shock assault. That is about the best case scenario for the TH and costs 5 more points.

Yeah and Frost weapon costs 1CP what are you talking about? Thunderwolf cavalry is a unit that has a difficult time maneuvering through terrain, costs a lot and they dont have the luxury to bounce. You need to able to reliably scratch a vehicle or a T8 target.

Kaied wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
For secondaries warriors pride is also very nice cause you need to have two units that charged or are in cc every turn for 3 points which goes very well with the wolves.
Anyway sorry for the long post I hope you find some of these comments useful. Lets us know how you are doing with it.

I considered Warrior's Pride, but if you can't get 2 units for a turn 1 charge, you are losing maximum possible points. But, this might be an artifact of me not seeing a game board in 15 years and think it looks quite different. I hear there is a lot more terrain and the tables are much smaller than I used to play.
Granted, I was leaning toward Heroic Challenge, which requires Logan to kill a specific thing with a melee weapon for max points

Heroic challenge is very fun but there are cases that your opponent will choose something that is able to kill Logan... easily... or will choose an non significant character that he will bury inside a building where Logan cant even enter. But it us fun!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If its just Rites of Battle and not Chapter Master:
TH 58.33 % accuracy for 4.66 expected damage (not 5.9)
LC: 77% accuracy for 5.13 expected damage (not 5.8)

Also, the whole Logan on Stormrider + 9 other various wolves was kind of the theme of the build (Santa and the reindeer), so not removing them.