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I recently starting using the Vindicare assassin with my Vostroyans and loving the long-ranged threat he poses to characters. However.... several of my opponents have attempted to call me on a rule I was quite positive about. Now I am not so sure.

When deploying the Vindicare per the Agents of the Imperium Rule, does he count as moving or not? I would think not since this modifies how he sets up. Units that are set up at the beginning of the game do not count as moving. Only units placed in strategic reserves are arriving via a "deep strike" rule defined in their datasheet count as moving.

I think the rule you're referring to is called independent operative and yes it would count as reinforcements and thus having moved.

It's fundamentally a deepstrike. You're reading into the lore a little because it describes him revealing his position like he's always been there which isn't the case rules wise.

yhea, if your taking advantage of the following rule:

INDEPENDENT OPERATIVE
This model can never have a Warlord Trait. During deployment, you can set this model up in concealment instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases, this model can reveal its position – set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.

then your assassin, form a rules perspective, is arriving form reinforcements/strategic reserves, the same as if he teleported in or jumped out of a passing thunderhawk. so he's moved and suffers the penalties that go with that.

i think this is one of those situations where the rules would benefit form making "deepstrike" a keyword that could be added to rules like this, to clarify the interactions that govern these rules. this would be a perfect place to do so ("at the end of any of your Movement phases, this model can reveal its position – set it up anywhere on the battlefield as per DEEPSTRIKE")

I mean, I can see how they were trying to make this really cool sounding ability, but then they totally forgot there are actual rules regarding this, and said screw it. So yeah, unless you are using him as "deployed" on turn 1, he's gonna be kinda dead in the water for a whole turn. Which again, given the lore and fluff of these characters, is dumb. Oh well.

Thanks everybody. I buy that explanation, and I'm glad I played it how my opponents said it should be interpreted.... consistent with your rulings.

I have amended his lore in my head. Now after he's been stalking the battlefield and scoping out enemy characters for days, he gets hungry and needs to go to the store for some junk food. Only to realize when he gets back the battle is underway!

So ill play devil advocate here.
Whats the wording for deep strike rules?

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So ill play devil advocate here.
Whats the wording for deep strike rules?

What devil’s advocate is there to play here

There isn’t a generic deep strike rule but the Assassin’s has been posted above.
We know from the Core Rules that this counts as Reinforcements and as such he counts as having moved.

Bit lost as to what wiggle room you think is left?

 Warptide wrote:
Thanks everybody. I buy that explanation, and I'm glad I played it how my opponents said it should be interpreted.... consistent with your rulings.

I have amended his lore in my head. Now after he's been stalking the battlefield and scoping out enemy characters for days, he gets hungry and needs to go to the store for some junk food. Only to realize when he gets back the battle is underway!

if it helps, dont think of him hiding in a fire position, but rather hiding in deep in a corner with a cloak over him, or in the sewers, etc, and his deployment is him scrambling up out of his hide into the firing position.

like johnny said, their is no single "deepstrike" rule anymore, but dozens of similar rules that we collectively call "deepstrike" as a understood legacy term that covers them. its been clarified that these rules count as arriving form strategic reserves, and that a unit coming form reserve counts as already having made a Normal Move, so it can't deploy, then move, then make a short charge (main reason for it).

what i was saying that we shoud bring back "deep strike" as a keyword to better define the interactions of certian rules, so we could be clear if a given rule is a deepstrike, a infiltration/forward deployment, etc.

Yeah after digging through the rules.
Nah, he counts as arriving form reserves. However GW horribly worded it. And i could 100% make a good argument for him not technically arriving from reserves.

Except the rules say he has. No grey area.

Yeah, this is pretty cut and dry. I believe they also specifically called the Assassins out in an FAQ back when they made the whole, no turn 1 DS anymore rule.