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2022/02/15 19:38:01
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
With the recent nerfs Orkz got from CA 2022 I've revised my Alphork Strike list and refined it a bit to compensate for actual CP usage issues I have run into. No longer is it 3 Patrol detachments, instead its a Patrol and a Outrider detachment. The 3rd warboss has been replaced with Boss Zagstruk and the 3rd unit of Trukkboyz has been replaced with more warbikers in their 3 units, bringing it to 3 units of 5 rather than 3 units of 3. Play style remains the exact same as before. Push the enemy into his deployment zone as soon as possible and keep him there. Mek gunz guard your home objectives.
Deployment is Trukk boyz and warboss in 1 trukk and Trukkboyz and Zagstruk in the other. Kommandos deploy forward and seize centerfield in cover to get that juicy 3+ save.
Turn 1: Zagstruk hops out 3 and moves his 12, this puts him 3' from the enemy deployment zone, he can either advance 6 or not chance the mortal wound on a 4+ depending on circumstance. Warboss on Warbike moves 14, and does the same thing as Zag, if he needs the 6 he can take it, if not then he shoots. The two trukkz than move 12, trukk boyz hop out 3, move 5 advance D6 and WAAAGH into the enemy lines. Koptas all rush forward 14 and fire their rokkitz into anything that needs to explode violently. Warbikers gun forward 14 and either shoot something important or they themselves advance 6 more inches and have an easy charge into something important. Kommandos all move forward, advance if needed (not like they can do much else anyway) and then easy charge into the enemies lines. Mek gunz sit at home and plink away at important things.
Turn 2: Repeat turn 1 except warboss hops out and joins the fun.
Depending on who goes first you should have 13 units in or near the enemies deployment zone turn 1. Warbikes, Trukk Boyz, Kommandos, Zagstruk, Warboss on Warbike and 1 unit of Deffkoptas are assuredly in safe charge range turn 1, thats 11 units with the other 2 units of Deffkoptas in possible charge range as well as the 2 trukkz, 1 warboss and 3 units of Mek gunz in the rear with the gear. Let me know what you think and recommend any tweaks.
How does zagstruk end up 3 inches from the enemy deployment zone without advancing? if thats what you meant anyway.
He starts in a trukk, he gets 3 inches there + his 12 movement which is 15 inch movement. Thats 9 inches from the enemy deployment zone? So unless he advances he wont be 3 inches from the deployment zone. I dont see how he should expect a turn 1 charge without advancing. Going for a 9 inch charge is hard.
Im running my own variant of this list and im still tinkering a lot with it, having made up to 16 different variants.
Have you thought about Deepstriking a unit? Because with the lower cost of killa kanz i thought about going for it for my upcoming tournement.
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]
Clan Kultur: Goffs
[spoiler]Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]
+ HQ [5 PL, -2CP, 105pts] +
Warboss [5 PL, -2CP, 105pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Attack Squig [5pts], Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-skorcha, Power Klaw [10pts], 2x Slugga, Stikkbombs, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz [-1CP]
Killa Kans [14 PL, 210pts] . Killa Kan [35pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [35pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [35pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [35pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [35pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw . Killa Kan [35pts]: Big Shoota, Kan Klaw
But to be fair, i cant really seem to find the ONE list i really like, ive tried with deffkoptas, a kill rig, lots of things. I even thought about using 3x2 Mek Gunz with makari giving them a 6 up leadership. Furthermore ive thought about the usage of deffkoptas but i cant really seem to find the correct list i wanna use. My latest idea was simply using Killa kanz as a deepstrike unit while the rest of my army is holding up the enemy. Like you, with Mek Gunz in the backline to hold but ive also decided to go with a few grots to keep holding the backline or screen out.
Why did you trade out your stormboyz for warbikers? Zagstruk at least could help with morale a bit, and while stormboyz cant fly as far as warbikers can drive, they at least can fly. You also get more melee hits from 10 stormboyz than 5 warbikers. of course the warbikers can shoot however but wont be doing that if you want a turn 1 charge.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/16 06:58:17
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/02/16 12:48:02
Subject: Re:[2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
Bearded, a lot of maps have 18' no mans land. On the maps with 24 it would be 9' and it would be a given he would be advancing
As far as deep striking, no. This is an Alpha strike army. Deep strikers are a beta strike force at best, Vehicles have a chance with "ramming speed" to get stuck into CC turn 2 but if they fail they are left exposed, doing very little dmg for all of turn 1 and turn 2. This list only works because it applies maximum threat turn 1 on a host of different target which causes such a threat overload that your opponent literally can't kill everything before you are pushed back into your own deployment zone.
SemperMortis wrote: Bearded, a lot of maps have 18' no mans land. On the maps with 24 it would be 9' and it would be a given he would be advancing
As far as deep striking, no. This is an Alpha strike army. Deep strikers are a beta strike force at best, Vehicles have a chance with "ramming speed" to get stuck into CC turn 2 but if they fail they are left exposed, doing very little dmg for all of turn 1 and turn 2. This list only works because it applies maximum threat turn 1 on a host of different target which causes such a threat overload that your opponent literally can't kill everything before you are pushed back into your own deployment zone.
wait is that a new design? Because i recall most maps have 24" in the older book? I dont have the new book yet. I can only remember the scouring from the old book had 28" no mans land, and that... stage where you deploy in only the quarter part of a stage, where there is a circle in the middle, had less than 24". i cant remember any other stages from the old book having more stages that had less than 24".
But if the new book has other stages that has more 18" no mans lands, that changes a lot in how i need to put my army together.
On the idea of DS not working, how is it different from the deffkoptas? Wouldnt they reach combat first in turn 2 as well? Unless the enemy gets turn 1 and moves up? admittedly if many stages are 18" no mans land then deffkoptas could definitely get a turn 1 charge..
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/02/16 21:05:11
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/02/16 23:25:33
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
wait is that a new design? Because i recall most maps have 24" in the older book? I dont have the new book yet. I can only remember the scouring from the old book had 28" no mans land, and that... stage where you deploy in only the quarter part of a stage, where there is a circle in the middle, had less than 24". i cant remember any other stages from the old book having more stages that had less than 24".
But if the new book has other stages that has more 18" no mans lands, that changes a lot in how i need to put my army together.
On the idea of DS not working, how is it different from the deffkoptas? Wouldnt they reach combat first in turn 2 as well? Unless the enemy gets turn 1 and moves up? admittedly if many stages are 18" no mans land then deffkoptas could definitely get a turn 1 charge..
Just the one "official" 18 map, but for some reason It seems to come up...every tournament i'm at sometimes the TO will make their own maps and such, I remember one where it was a triangle deployment along the long edge so that at its shortest it was only a 6' no mans land but at its longest it was 30. Eitherway, on those 24' maps he will be advancing to guarantee the charge because thats where he does 99% of his dmg
As far as Deffkoptas and deep strike. If a Deffkopta is deep striking than on turn 2 it has a 9' charge no matter what and turn 1 its not even on the board to shoot. For me, putting all 3 units on the table means I have 18D3 rokkitz turn 1 which will be in range of most of the board. If we play the shorter No Mans land mission they only have a 4' charge, if we play the 24, its a 10' charge which isn't likely to work but you can take a chance at Ramming Speed which averages 10.5 so better than 50% chance especially with re-rolls. The other 2 can try it if the opponent has wasted overwatch or they are targeting a unit already in CC. But eitherway they will have delivered 6D3 rokkitz each and turn 2 they will have covered 28' of the board which means they are likely in range to charge basically anything they really want to.
wait is that a new design? Because i recall most maps have 24" in the older book? I dont have the new book yet. I can only remember the scouring from the old book had 28" no mans land, and that... stage where you deploy in only the quarter part of a stage, where there is a circle in the middle, had less than 24". i cant remember any other stages from the old book having more stages that had less than 24".
But if the new book has other stages that has more 18" no mans lands, that changes a lot in how i need to put my army together.
On the idea of DS not working, how is it different from the deffkoptas? Wouldnt they reach combat first in turn 2 as well? Unless the enemy gets turn 1 and moves up? admittedly if many stages are 18" no mans land then deffkoptas could definitely get a turn 1 charge..
Just the one "official" 18 map, but for some reason It seems to come up...every tournament i'm at sometimes the TO will make their own maps and such, I remember one where it was a triangle deployment along the long edge so that at its shortest it was only a 6' no mans land but at its longest it was 30. Eitherway, on those 24' maps he will be advancing to guarantee the charge because thats where he does 99% of his dmg
As far as Deffkoptas and deep strike. If a Deffkopta is deep striking than on turn 2 it has a 9' charge no matter what and turn 1 its not even on the board to shoot. For me, putting all 3 units on the table means I have 18D3 rokkitz turn 1 which will be in range of most of the board. If we play the shorter No Mans land mission they only have a 4' charge, if we play the 24, its a 10' charge which isn't likely to work but you can take a chance at Ramming Speed which averages 10.5 so better than 50% chance especially with re-rolls. The other 2 can try it if the opponent has wasted overwatch or they are targeting a unit already in CC. But eitherway they will have delivered 6D3 rokkitz each and turn 2 they will have covered 28' of the board which means they are likely in range to charge basically anything they really want to.
I see your point. Though my point wasnt to deepstrike deffkoptas but deepstrike something else like Killa kanz. But deffkoptas just flying around do cover a larger area with their flying 14 inch movement, granting them a short charge distance. though they do risk getting shot to pieces. But in the process of them only reaching turn 2 anyway, i figured maybe it would be okay to have someone deepstrike because they too, would reach turn 2 with ramming speed (or hopefully they would).
I sadly only have 6 deffkoptas though, but i am using squig hog riders as well. But i cant really tell if i like the squiggies because ill most likely be casting my waaagh turn 1, so they wont be advancing and charging. they will just advance turn 1, and do a normal move turn 2. They can make it to the enemy line alright, but they might not get off a good angle.
Doing these alpha strike ork lists have been go to as of lately, and im bringing such a list to a tournement myself. I just need to find the right list for me. And i havent played much during 9th edition so im really rusty compared to 8th edition.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/17 08:53:57
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/02/18 11:11:56
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
Keep in mind with Squig riders, they are not an alpha strike unit, do to their 10' movement and no auto-6' advance they are Risk in the extreme to get into CC turn 1, so unless you are bringing a lot of Alpha strike you would likely be better off holding your waaagh until turn 2 and making your list a beta strike list. I have 6 squig riders myself and have the 2 squignobz and 1 beastboss on squig as well. I had considered a really strong Beta Squig strike list, the problem is that they sadly aren't durable enough in this edition to have a good chance at surviving unless they stay almost exclusively out of LOS turn 1. And at that point you might be screwing yourself out of charge range for turn 2 which defeats their purpose.
Well.. the way i see it there is a decent chance you will end up doing a turn 2 charge rather than 1 so making an army reliant on having to go turn 1 seems vulnerable. Even IF you get a normal 24" no mans land, doesnt mean your enemy who might use a generally ranged army, deploys all his troops at the deployment zone edge.
If he knows it increases your chances of winning, he might go for a bit of risky play of not moving forward or deploying near the no mans land, in order to get 1 more turn of shooting you off.
Luckily the way i see it, your army does not HAVE to go turn 1, its merely an option. I would think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/20 08:54:55
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/02/20 17:40:13
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
Beardedragon wrote: Well.. the way i see it there is a decent chance you will end up doing a turn 2 charge rather than 1 so making an army reliant on having to go turn 1 seems vulnerable. Even IF you get a normal 24" no mans land, doesnt mean your enemy who might use a generally ranged army, deploys all his troops at the deployment zone edge.
If he knows it increases your chances of winning, he might go for a bit of risky play of not moving forward or deploying near the no mans land, in order to get 1 more turn of shooting you off.
Luckily the way i see it, your army does not HAVE to go turn 1, its merely an option. I would think.
44' is the length across. 24' no-mans land leaves you with 10' to deploy in. Kommandos start 9' from that line, they move 6 and advance D6, that means even with a terrible advance roll of 1 they are still theoretically in charge range of the entire deployment zone. Trukk boyz are 12+3+5+D6. So for their charge they are at worst 13' from the enemy table edge. Warbikes are 14+6 so they are just 2' from the enemy table edge. The point being that the enemy has to deploy incredibly far back to avoid a first turn charge, and if they do I can change my deployment tactis mid deployment by simply putting kommandos on objectives and playing the long game. The Alphork strike list isn't wonderful in terms of durability but I can very easily hold midfield for 3 turns with the plethora of bodies in this list. On the flipside, I can also choose to aggressively deploy and still attempt that 1st turn charge because when you include model base size and CC range I can get most of my units into CC, or at the worst, perfectly positioned for a really good turn 2 charge, hopefully from cover.
Its a beatiful list, can I ask you how do you play if you dont' have first turn?
And if you play against something like GSC cults, that can hide 'till the end of your first movement phase and dont' let you move at less of 9 inch from their deployment zone?
2022/02/21 22:35:23
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
Phoenix Lord wrote: Its a beatiful list, can I ask you how do you play if you dont' have first turn?
And if you play against something like GSC cults, that can hide 'till the end of your first movement phase and dont' let you move at less of 9 inch from their deployment zone?
If I don't get first turn, generally what I have done is deployed Kommandos in cover 9' from enemy deployment zone or as close as possible while in cover. At no point will I ever deploy them out of cover even if it means a longer turn 1 charge because out of cover they are functionally the same durability as boyz...IE, weak. In cover, they are 12pts for a T5 wound with 3+ armor or 4+ armor with -1 to hit. The trukkz will do their best to stay out of LOS of the heavy hitters of the enemy. I deploy everything else either in cover, out of LOS or if not possible i'll place the warbikes and Mek gunz in the open to draw fire. A T5 warbiker is incredibly durable for its 25pt cost with -1 to hit and 3 wounds. The Deffkoptas and Mek gunz likewise are relatively durable for their price, both have Ramshackle and in the case of the deffkoptas, easy access to -1 to hit.
While all of this isn't ideal and is subject to a lot of other factors that the enemy can deploy and use, least of which would be IDF it at least guarantees the highest level of protection possible. And again, the biggest defensive strength of this list is getting into the enemy turn 1 and denying them more turns to shoot the hell out of you.
As far as GSC Cults, I have never played against them so it will be interesting to find out. Keep in mind though, they deploy their "markers" for cult ambush at the same time as I deploy my kommandos as well, so if I can place a unit of kommandos down before they can block everything than I can at least open up a corridor or two for my movements. Plus, if they are that close to me turn 1...well that guarantees my Deffkoptas get a good round of shooting AND easy CC turn 1
ok you made it clear, the problem that arises with the GSC according to my lack of experience is that in any case even if you have the first turn you cannot move less than 9 from its counters, so it means that you have all long charges even if with rerolls, I don't know, I think it becomes difficult to make alpha strikes in this case, and perhaps it is better to aim for second turn charge, but I have only played against them once using orks and with a list slightly different from yours
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/22 11:57:33
2022/02/22 11:28:14
Subject: Re:[2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
In the two matches ive tried my alpha strike army, i didnt deploy the kommandos 9 inches from the line, i went further behind. Because if the enemy got turn 1 and failed to shoot all the kommandos, they would just be charged and 100% killed off that way. I figured i would take advantage of the fact i could advance and charge. I dont know if thats good or bad.
Furthermore i always deployed, or attempted to deploy my stormboyz behind obscurring, which was difficult to sometimes do as obscurring werent available right at the deployment zone edge towards the no mans land. Many of the ruins we use in my local area has windows so i would have to deploy further behind them rather than in them. That would often not give me 6" charge if the no mans land is 24 inches, but sometimes up to 9" or more instead.
I think i need to try and play hyper aggressive and put kommandos near the 9" away from deployment (but in ruins) and stormboyz as close to the edge as well so i can get off at least 6" charges to the zone edge itself, but more if i have to go further.
That or be more defensive and definitively not go for a turn 1 charge. My last game was the scouring in the old missions book. That thing had 28 inch no mans land, and i went for a turn 1 charge anyway. It was a disaster. I should not have done that.
I need to be better at figuring out when to go for the defensive turn 2 charge approach, and when to go for the aggressive turn 1 charge. And it already happens in the deployment phase.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/22 11:29:50
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/02/27 20:44:17
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
If im not mistaken, both thin their ranks and bring it down are in two different categories?
So your Semper list with Mek Gunz, trukks being worth 2 points now each, and deff koptas, will be easy to pick secondaries to, as one would easily max bring it down against you, and be close to maxxing thin their ranks too if one doesnt outright get the max by wiping your army. Or killing enough at least.
One does not need to worry about going for actions when playing against this army. I noticed it when i made my own changes with killa kanz and deffkoptas thinking: well.. i guess ill have to wipe my enemy fast or give up 30 points total for my enemy getting that for just killing me.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/02/27 21:01:53
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
Beardedragon wrote: If im not mistaken, both thin their ranks and bring it down are in two different categories?
So your Semper list with Mek Gunz, trukks being worth 2 points now each, and deff koptas, will be easy to pick secondaries to, as one would easily max bring it down against you, and be close to maxxing thin their ranks too if one doesnt outright get the max by wiping your army. Or killing enough at least.
One does not need to worry about going for actions when playing against this army. I noticed it when i made my own changes with killa kanz and deffkoptas thinking: well.. i guess ill have to wipe my enemy fast or give up 30 points total for my enemy getting that for just killing me.
Very good points, but this list is more concerned with killing the enemy as fast as possible. If they got those points than I already lost anyway. If you survive this list for 3 full turns you pretty much have already won
Beardedragon wrote: If im not mistaken, both thin their ranks and bring it down are in two different categories?
So your Semper list with Mek Gunz, trukks being worth 2 points now each, and deff koptas, will be easy to pick secondaries to, as one would easily max bring it down against you, and be close to maxxing thin their ranks too if one doesnt outright get the max by wiping your army. Or killing enough at least.
One does not need to worry about going for actions when playing against this army. I noticed it when i made my own changes with killa kanz and deffkoptas thinking: well.. i guess ill have to wipe my enemy fast or give up 30 points total for my enemy getting that for just killing me.
Very good points, but this list is more concerned with killing the enemy as fast as possible. If they got those points than I already lost anyway. If you survive this list for 3 full turns you pretty much have already won
I wouldnt be so sure. I ran my own bad version (made for a league some time ago so i couldnt change it to an updated version) and played sisters yesterday. I went to turn 5 and it ended up in a draw. i literally had no idea a draw was even possible with these kinds of lists but alas it was. I could have won but made some mistakes, but it would not be a large victory. Only a minor one. This list used a kill rig and some squig boys too.
So when i made my own newer version with 30 kommandos, 30 stormboyz, 20 trukkboyz, 20 grots, 6 deffkoptas, 2-3 mek gunz and maybe 6 killa kanz (still havent figured out exactly what i want in it) with 2 trukks being now 2 points each, i just looked at my list and thought: well feth me. Max most likely on thin their ranks and definitely max on bring it down.
I want my enemy to take action secondaries so that he doesnt shoot me as much, now he wont with this list. using warbikers over stormboyz in this case is actually really good, because i dont recall warbikers counting towards thin their ranks so thats something. I dont have that many warbikers though so im forced to go with stormboyz for now. So my own list gives up more points in both categories than yours do, so thats a positive for your list definitely over my own. but its not a large difference.
Also i looked over the new missions, and there is only 1 mission that is less than 24 inches in between now. Making turn 1 charges a bit difficult if you play against someone who knows how to utilize terrain and ruins by staying 1 inch behind the wall to make sure you cant attack them unless you go around. bottlenecking your army in between the ruins, UNLESS you actually go for a turn 2 charge.
So i think that the ability to go for a large amount of units for turn 1 charges if needed is great, but if i get turn 1 myself i think in the future i will hold out for a turn 1 charge during round 2. Sisters in this battle attacked me pretty hard and he got turn 1, i was forced to go for a turn 1 charge and it went okay. but i really was bottlenecked hard as he was turtling up. If i had turn 1 and went turn 2 it would have been a much cleaner fight.
Furthermore the list if used at group tournements, then the amount you lose with do matter. Its often not just win or lose but with how much, so if you lose massively by giving the enemy thin their ranks and bring it down, then thats worth noting. Im trying to make a list i can use at tournements both group and solo, and i think i will still run with this list. It'll be the wild west, and i will have to do my best. But hopefulyl i dont get demolished.
Using this kind of list with the new missions means we will have to double down even harder on killing, as even the missions that requires you to do actions to even get full primaries, wont be possible in many cases i think. The new missions are absolutely dreadful for this army.
Edit: yea warbikers definitely helps with thin their ranks. Your list only gives up 8 points so its only bring it down thats a problem for it. MY list with grots and stormboyz though.. gives up both thin their ranks and bring it down. so thats a flaw for me.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2022/02/28 12:24:11
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2022/03/07 14:45:29
Subject: [2000] - Da Orkz - Alphork Strike 2 Electric Boogaloo
sometimes the 